Smittymoose

I'm still waiting for someone to give me an example of a team that "patiently" (and successfully) rebuilds for 4-5 years

They didn't rebuild 4-5 years. Wheels fell off in 2018 with Marvin Lewis. 2019 and 2020 were legitimate rebuild years. No one take 4-5 years to rebuild in the NFL unless the HC/GM are totally incompetent. This ain't baseball.

lol what. at what point did the Chiefs rebuild for 4-5 seasons? The Chiefs had basically one bad season. They picked Eric Fisher #1 overall. They had a losing season since 2011. when did the Seahawks rebuild for 4-5 seasons? They had already won the Super Bowl in Carroll's fourth season.

Eh, I get it if you think the picks and the totality of it are too much, but if you're already that deep into it, no way you can let Burns, Chinn, or both be a deal-breaker for a franchise QB.

They don't have "no choice." There's always a choice. The Texans have as much or more leverage compared to Watson. They know they aren't going to be any good next year. Neither side wants to continue their Cold War, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't happen.

Which teams in the last 20 years have "patiently" rebuilt for 4-5 seasons and actually had that work out?

To fit him: Extend Onyemata, Restructure Hill, Restructure Jenkins, Restructure Demario Davis, Cut Roby, Extend Davenport is how they get to ~$35M. The question is, what do they have left in terms of flexibility to build out their roster at that point? They will have restructured or cut about everyone they can possibly move around for this year. It's just not realistic to me. They'd have about 25 guys that you'd categorize as contributors and very little flexibility. Possible they could open up $20M by extending or restructuring Watson, but that same thing goes for anyone else who trades for him. They'd definitely have to give up CGJ in that trade. Probably Payton Turner and another piece too. And it's still much weaker than Carolina's offer.

There's a reason they and the Bucs are being rumored now at this late hour. Carolina was the last team with a seat at the table, and the Texans are looking to create leverage.

NFL coaches are such egotists. They always think they can be the one to "fix" the guy whose broken. Occasionally you get a Jim Harbaugh/Alex Smith situation where it works, but more often than not, it's a fool's errand.

Right. And look at teams like Miami and Oakland/LV that made "winning" trades to get multiple day one and day two picks. How did it turn out for them? Both blew almost all of those picks.

Yep. It's a big ask, but it's the right move for Carolina.

I have to say, it's pretty hilarious to see someone say you are poo if you want Watson but also defending JR and saying it was only "hearsay"

Like who? Their weapons are awful outside of Kamara and a big question mark in Thomas. He excited to throw to Taysom Hill?

DJ Moore is a decent #1 WR that any team in the league would love to have. McCaffrey is a stud at RB if he's healthy, and if Carolina wants to move him to save on future cap, they'll get a late first or two seconds for him. Even if he's moved, I think Hubbard is a solid platoon option at RB, whether it's with Abdulla or someone else. Moton is a fixture near-elite RT. Christensen, Tremble, and TMJ have shown enough to believe they are or will shortly be good players. Burns (admittedly could be moved) is a good end. He has his issues in the run game, but there are few guys with his type of elite get-off in the pass game. I think Brown is a decent DT with room to grow. Same goes for YGM at end. Shaq is a solid (but overpaid LB). Chinn is good, and a better coaching staff would get more out of him. Enough to be optimistic about with Horn at CB. I still think Henderson can be a player with a full off-season. I think Nixon and Taylor are decent bets to be good contributors too. There are plenty of foundational pieces. It is not hard to find cheap-ish vets to fill some of the other holes.

I acknowledged the player cost. But in terms of picks? It would cost a ton to move from 1 from 5, assuming the 1st overall team even wants to trade down. And if there's a #1 overall worthy QB, there's a good chance they aren't moving. But let's play along and assume they would. I just cited the 49ers package to move from 12 to 3. The value difference on the trade value chart from 12 to 3 is 1300 points. The gap from 12 to 3 is 1000 points. It would take the 5th overall plus two future firsts plus likely a second or third round pick to move up.

We definitely disagree. This team has plenty of talent, it's just lacking at the most important position, QB. And had a total blackhole at QB last year.

Well, but you said that it would cost "many more premium picks" to trade for Watson than it would to move up. You agree now that's not accurate, right?

It's a good roster that featured the worst or near-worst QB situation in the league and several holes on the OL. The Panthers are not far away now if you solve the QB problem. The OL really comes down to if/when BC is ready to handle LT. If he can play there functionally, you solve the biggest issue. RT is set. Elflein is going to get a shot to prove he's the C whether its Watson or not. Interior OL starters are the easiest to find without giving up much capital. There are a number of decent starters at guard who get 1-2 year deals every year. Feliciano and Saffold are guys who just got cut within the last week and are decent options. There are others out there too. Plus, you can find interior guys late. Panthers have 5 day three picks right now. They could likely add at least one more, if not in the Watson trade, then by shipping off Robby Anderson. They can snag another lottery ticket to develop on the interior along with hoping Brown takes a step or two forward. He has the talent if he can control his weight.

Do you think there are any two guys on the defense right now that significantly change the fortunes of the franchise to lose them? I think there are lots of good young players. There are no Von Millers or Aaron Donalds. Depends on where the Panthers are picking, but let's say they are picking 10th without Watson in 2022 and need to move up, to, say, 2nd overall. We have a blueprint for that trade from last year with the 49ers, who traded from 12th to 3rd. They gave up 12, two future firsts, and a current third. That's almost exactly the pick compensation being discussed for Watson.

Yes, I have known about spotrac for about a decade. You didn't answer either question. Will you answer them? Which cap hits are long-term concerns? What are the reasons Watson shouldn't trust Tepper?

What am I taking personally? I don't give a fug about you. I want you to explain your reasons though, to prove they aren't half-baked garbage. Since you didn't answer before: 1. Which cap hits, specifically, should we be worried about, in the upcoming years? 2. What reasons, specifically, are there for Watson not to trust Tepper?

So, trade multiple firsts to move up and acquire a rookie QB who may not be any good at all instead of trading multiple firsts to acquire a surefire top 5-7 QB in the league who is 26 years old? Got it.

It's absolutely butt-hurt. You're assuming on the front-end that he shouldn't trust Tepper. What are your specific reasons for this? Because you're mad he hired Rhule and mad he didn't fire him? Therefore, no one should trust him? It's not going to take 3-5 years to build around him, get real. The Panthers with just an average QB last year are a 9-10 win team. I wonder if every team has as many Chicken Little fans as the Panthers?

lol so it comes back to Tepper butthurt, got it

Which cap hits, specifically, should Carolina be concerned about?