frankw

I didn't say it was all on one player and only about winning and losing. But you also want your team to at least have something to build on from losses. Something positive to look back at and say hey we didn't win last week but we had a couple of decent drives to finish the game. Instead of getting your poo pushed in for 4 quarters by a team missing their starting QB. Why do you feel the need to pull our only MVP in franchise history into this? We aren't talking about Cam Newton. Different player different athlete different vibe different everything. That guy went to a Super Bowl with Ted Ginn Jr as his #1 WR. Nobody is expecting Bryce Young to be Cam Newton. But we're certainly expecting him to be more of a leader than someone like Sam Darnold or Teddy Bridgewater who let's be honest were both a couple of milquetoasts. Especially when you consider that Bryce's leadership ability was 1b to the 1a of his processing ability as the key selling points of selecting him first overall. And I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with you trying to draw a correlation between simply asking for our #1 pick to spend more time this offseason building a rapport with his receivers and people basically saying CJ Stroud has a low football IQ or poor leadership or low character because of his father or that he's a diva because he didn't attend Peyton Manning's QB camp or because he went to an event wearing one piece of jewelry around his neck instead of sitting at home doing nothing until draft night. Bryce Young has already been afforded the benefit of the doubt before and following the draft. Certainly moreso than CJ Stroud was. And that is a fact. He is now facing the biggest test of his life as an athlete. I sincerely hope he responds and brings an edge this season. But so far I haven't seen anything to indicate that since finishing with one of the worst rookie seasons of the last few decades he's done much to alter his approach to development that he has operated with since high school and college. Some other QB's who already have the necessary physical traits to overcome other lacking areas might be able to get by without doing that. But unfortunately Bryce Young is already an outlier among outliers. He does not have that built in physical advantage. If he is going to succeed he's really going to have to put in extra work. Yes that involves forms of leadership. That's all I ask. I keep telling you this and explaing it from different angles but you keep trying to circle back to trying to portray me as hating or unfairly placing expectations on him like he's a newborn child and that might work on a social media site speaking on his behalf but it isn't going to matter to any of the defenses he's going to be facing in 17 regular season games next year who already have the majority of a season worth of game tape on him. I feel like I've said all I can. I don't see it necessary to derail this thread any further.

Worst team in the league by a wide margin (didn't we get shut out by the fuging Jaguars lol) and you don't see a distinct lack of leadership? That starts at the top. Stroud had a good supporting cast but he clearly also helped elevate guys around him and his teammates went out of their way to praise him for it. I hope to see the same from #9 and that will pay dividends in developing both himself WR's like Mingo and the incoming rookie wide receiver from the upcoming draft. But if this team is to take a few steps forward out of the shadow we've created for ourselves this will have to happen. If you feel that's an unreasonable take I don't see how we can go any further in this conversation.

First of all. Don't come at me sideways with this and act like you haven't seen the loudest Bryce Young defenders shitposting about how big of a bust Jonathan Mingo is while laying out excuses for Young. If we are talking about lack of effort. They both can and should get the smoke. That goes for any player in that regard. We didn't finish with 2 wins because everyone was laying it on the line. Of course when your QB throws 2 pick sixes to the same defender in one game who is going to go out of their way? But regardless for the subject you are bringing to me situational awareness is needed. Jonathan Mingo is not sitting on a 40+ million dollar guaranteed contract. This is not Jonathan Mingo's team. He is not the face of the franchise. We didn't trade a premium player and multiple picks including a first overall to acquire him. It's ultimately up to the QB to lead his team. Why do you have an issue with me or anyone else expecting that of Bryce Young? By all accounts it looks like we are assuredly drafting another WR in the second round. That rookie will require some refining and he will require his starting QB along with his coaches to guide him in learning the offense. Just as Mingo has. That's what I expect out of my #1 pick. Look what Stroud has done for his receiving core as a rookie. He's also brings an undisputed presence of leadership. That is what I want to see. Plain and simple.

The only thing that truly matters is how well he can draft. I'll have a decent enough answer on that by the end of the year.

I'm very pleasantly surprised. Maybe Morgan has some use as a former player he must have offered a solid pitch considering Clowney could have easily gone to a more viable contender. Today was a good day. I'll gladly take it.

I said your argument was depressing me not the conversation. Seeing more should be the floor given all that we heard about his background and especially in comparison to Stroud who had his character baseless questioned . It's about consistency. Hey how about go to your fellow rookie WR Jonathan Mingo and setup some time to practice together so you will both be better for it. The so called "anti Bryce" talk is nothing more than expecting a basic level of accountability that is being expected of players like Mingo who I just mentioned and whom we also did not forfiet significant assets to acquire.

One of the main reasons for drafting him that was beaten over our heads over and over and over and over like the Energizer Bunny was his leadership. What you mentioned is all we've got to hang our hat on? Yeah that's bleak.

One time Jimmy Clausen got really peeved on the sidelines too.

You're depressing me.

We actually did roll Bryce out from the pocket some toward the end of last season and it wasn't pretty. Not necessarily because of the OL either. Maybe he was just shell-shocked at that point but it was bad.

Idk about Legette. But can we please stop acting like Mingo is the worst WR we've ever drafted? Certainly he left some things to be desired but we traded up to draft a QB #1 that couldn't even hit him deep in one of the most basic scenarios any starting QB worth his salt turns into a touchdown 10 times out of 10. It's fair to wonder how Mingo would have looked if Dalton had played a few more games.

Just had an ESPN app notification about the change on my phone. The header for the accompanying article was "A lot safer". I laughed. If safety is the primary concern then switch to grass across all league venues you f*ckwits. Utjc.mp4

I understand the allure of trading back and acquiring more picks given our needs but with the same scouting staff intact and a first time GM and after watching Fitterer work with trading down I think I'm good on the trade a quarter for 2 dimes and a nickel profit approach. Just draft some good football players and keep it pushing.

TE is a wasteland. I like Tremble's potential with Canales but holy poo how many regime changes is Ian Thomas going to survive.

I'm going to tell you the same thing I told the other guy. Nobody is doing this. Acknowledging the unfortunate realities of the full picture of Bryce Young's rookie season is not blaming him entirely for every bad thing that has transpired with the Carolina Panthers. There's a world of middle ground between blaming him for literally everything and logging on here posting on his behalf like Craig Young. Maybe give that a try.

While true if we are employing this train of thought then that extends to the people he chooses to hire. Not a good outlook for Dan Morgan.

Dismissing Dalton's lone start with the same supporting cast same system same staff only to deflect for Bryce Young's is laughable. You're coping right off a cliff guys.

Deep sigh..... Why. Must. We. Keep. Bringing. Up. Hall. Of. Famers. Bryce isn't in that stratosphere. How has anyone not learned yet to stop trying to lump him in with GOAT's? He has to prove he can even hang with average QB's in a modern league with rules built around offense and passing ffs.

Well we obviously know why he opted not to throw at the combine. Is his arm awful? No. Can it be adequate under ideal circumstances? We are going to find out. But if we are being forthright with one another my friend we have to just acknowledge that at this time if we can compare Bryce's arm to anyone it would assuredly be Teddy Bridgewater. That's not me trying to make a dig on BY. I hate having to say that for what we gave up to draft him. But that's the situation. At this point since it's still March I have a certain level of hope. To a degree that has been extinguished recently knowing Bryce Young has apparently not made any significant changes in his approach to his development so far this offseason coming off arguably the worst rookie QB season in at least 20 years. If he is going to be successful he has to get any "yes" people out of his ear and do anything necessary to improve his competition level in this league. Otherwise there is a college football analyst gig in his future. For me it's as simple as that.

You say I'm simply watering down what you stated then immediately go on to claim "everyone" is calling him a "midget". You could just acknowledge you are operating with the same level of bias in this discussion as anyone else that you accuse of. I am hard pressed to recall anyone here that has argued our receivers and oline were very good. Clearly they were not. But you also have to acknowledge Bryce Young didn't help matters himself and that happened apparently more often than you would like to discuss. And if you want to vehemently go to bat for Bryce Young you cannot do so just blanket labeling all the receivers garbage while expecting kid gloves for Bryce Young. Again he played his part. His deep ball all extenuating circumstances aside has been mediocre at best and simply atrocious at worst and that's going back to his proday. It is there for anyone to see. We passed on the QB with the better arm talent. Now we are left to salvage what we can and that is what Canales was hired to do. You act like he's the first 22 year old QB to be scrutinized. Well sorry but that comes with the territory of being a #1 overall pick. He's had 40+ million reasons to brush it off and get his ass in the weight room and prove any doubters wrong. But apparently he looks exactly the same as last offseason. What are you gonna do eh?

Oh all homerism aside. Without a doubt. I'm already preparing for that. People want a Clowney reunion here but his top two choices are the Jets and Ravens no feel good story about returning to the Carolinas is going to sway him at this point in his career.

You perceive the criticism of Bryce Young to be bashing when it's simply logical application of what we know of him in the National Football League. He finished with one of the worst rookie seasons in history. We can't change that. In this very thread someone just touted his Heisman trophy like that means anything. What do you make of that? You have to evenly apply the standards you are expecting for dialogue on this issue. As for Canales from what I can tell a good number of people think he can be capable of doing positive things here. They just don't know that he's been given the hand to be able to do that with under the guise that he's been hired to fix Bryce Young. That's precisely why he ended up being our choice for the job if we are just laying all our cards on the table and being honest with ourselves.

Every defense we faced knew from watching the tape that half the field was off the table. Nobody feared Bryce's arm talent regardless of the oline or receivers. Even months later some simply cannot accept it. You have my sympathy.

I mean I can't blame anyone for taking the seeing is believing approach to our #1 pick considering we have had the worst win percentage in all of professional sports the last few years.

I heard nothing about this until after we signed him. Not a good omen. I get the sense our pass rush is going to be a heated source of discussion in the GameDay threads this fall. Especially if Burns shows out with the Giants.