frankw

If Bryce throws for 4000 yards and 30 touchdowns I'll buy a jersey straight up and have no complaints. Because we would have a QB! All 99% of the fanbase wants is a team and particularly a real NFL caliber offense led by a worthy QB that they can proud of.

Randy is a GOAT wide receiver himself. I had him on one of my Madden Ultimate Team setups some years back. Fun times. Certainly the combo of the two resulted in an all-time statistical season for spectators to marvel over. But who ruined the Patriots fun in the middle of those dynasty years not once but twice? The Brady discussion has changed over the years hasn't it? Much was said about how much Belichick played a huge part in those championship runs but that's pretty much been dismissed now and everyone agrees Brady was the engine. At the end of the day no matter what someone thinks of Tom and the franchise he played all those years for you can't deny that he was the ultimate competitor. He wanted it. He never settled. He was never a timid quiet leader. He wasn't as vocal as some but he also led by example. Would Tom Brady have had one of the worst seasons of his career and then came back in the Spring to announce his first order of business was to take time off and watch Netflix? If you want to compete for championships you need an ultimate competitor type behind center. Now I'm not saying we need BY or any other QB we might draft to be that necessarily. But they have to at least attempt to approach it. Otherwise we are never going to elevate again as a franchise the way we did with Jake Delhomme and Cam Newton.

He does have 7 rings without Moss. Just saying.

We aren't going to come to any real agreement until we see irrefutable results in the upcoming season. I'm not saying one approach is better than the other. No one can. Because there's not only one single way to be a fan of a sports team. Especially one that has been bad for this long. Idk what the GOAT QB (I freely acknowledge his status amongst his peers but generally can't stand him btw) has to do with anything here so I'll leave that one alone.

OP I see you and I feel what you're saying. It's funny I spent the better years of Panthers fandom when I was younger getting hammered and thoroughly enjoying the highs and even the lows. But the highs were damn good because we had a core of cornerstone franchise players on both sides of the ball to uplift the fanbase. I guess we took those days for granted. You don't know what you have until it's gone. Now for almost 4 years through this new iteration of the franchise I've managed to navigate through it sober. It's been... interesting. Good luck to you all this season.

Overall we agree here. As far as Bryce individually we've all gone into the weeds on the size and strength discussion enough to last us a lifetime. Now it's either we see it or we don't. It's simply that cut and dry. Last years staff was clearly not it and at times simply abysmal. But there's been so much bad with this franchise the last 4 years that you just have no way of knowing how much of it was this variable or that variable. I wish i could say Bryce's failures last year were 80% scheme coaching and protection failures. What gives me pause is we've already done this a couple times. After we fired Rivera. After we fired Rhule. Now it's Reich's turn. I caution anyone to make Reich the complete scapegoat until we see what Canales can make work here.

I accept and also apologize for anything that could be misconstrued. I have no ill will toward my fellow fans no matter how heated discussions may get. I also do not see someone as inferior for having a difference of opinion. Honestly there's too much provoking going on in both sides of this heated discussion. Now I need to make my position here clear. I'm not trying to entirely dismiss what you're saying here. You are presenting correct data. But like anything additional context is required. When I am talking about turnovers I am also speaking about the now. No he did not have an alarmingly high number of interceptions last year. Although you could argue if he pushed the ball downfield more he would have approached Howell's number. I cannot stress enough how unwilling he was to pull the trigger on a lot of pass attempts for reasons we can argue about for hours. But you have to acknowledge the distinct lack of any consistent downfield threats from BY skews that data some as far as comparison to Howell. I know and agree that we want him to get this out of his system in practice. But still. The existence and circumstances of these picks he's thrown this month are very concerning. And I do not think they are just going to disappear come regular season. Especially if he does not get any important preseason reps. Tomorrow will bring much needed clarity to this whole debate. All we can do is wait.

Bryce Young had possibly the worst statistical rookie season all time for any QB ever. That's not debatable. He is out there turning the ball over as bad or worse than Sam Howell. Who has already been traded from his original team despite showing more promise than Young with an equally inept offensive line. You're dealing in hopes and dreams my guy. You can take potshots at what you perceive to be lack of reading comprehension because someone doesnt agree with you or the inner workings of others personal lives until you're blue in the face it isn't going to change the reality of the situation. If you don't want folks here tell them and they'll go. I'll still be rooting for my Panthers and Hornets.

I was gone almost two months and nothing changed. You are as insufferable as anyone else here don't kid yourself.

Either Canales is already in over his head and this is a sign of things to come or someone else is pulling the strings. I'm inclined to go with the latter knowing he's a green first time head coach and we have a meddling owner.

2 pick sixes in one game to the same defender. We just acting like that never happened?

Legitimately I think I've seen one or two people here who actually wanted to be proven right about something like this. One of them was Ickmule. He's no longer here. I've moved on and accepted the choice we made. That was my approach entering training camp. Everything now is just pure unfiltered observation. This is why we cannot have conversations about this. You are acting as if Bryce Young has shown anything to this point that makes it ridiculous that anyone would have a hard time believing in him and giving him the benefit of the doubt for ugly turnovers. Did you watch those same games I did to end the season where we got the doors blown off and Bryce couldn't even lead a scoring drive against a Trevor Lawrenceless Jaguars team? Virtually everyone wants the team to be good again. I'm the same. I don't care if Sir Purr is the QB as long as we aren't a doormat anymore.

Let's pause for a sec and not get caught up in this us vs them sillinesss. If you go back to last season before everything went to hell I was someone who said all along he would likely throw a high number of interceptions. I was fine with that. But that requires context. There is turning the ball over trying to make something out of nothing and get a big gain for the offense. And then there is just borderline throwing blind passes into the middle of the field. The latter is not what you want to see under any circumstances. It's Sam Darnold territory. That's the simple truth. Then there is the issue of him still underthrowing passes in situations that require definitive zip on the ball in a league where margins for error are razor thin. Upcoming defensive opponents all know about these tendencies on film from last season and BY is still doing it. No amount of hopium can just wash all this away sir. I don't want another losing season either. But if I'm seeing warning signs I'm not just going to ignore what's right in front of me. Canales has quite the possible clusterf*ck to navigate it looks like. I hope he's ready. If things go South we need to change gears and just rip off the bandaid for the good of the team.

I'm all for Bryce Young or anyone taking shots downfield but he's displayed some of the same terrible field vision particularly in the middle of the field and to the outside that resulted in instances like this last season.

And the huddle's biggest Teddy Bridgewater homer once upon a time playing holier than thou to the rest of the fanbase once again.

"Underthrown out pass picked off" Ugly way to finish practice with the Jets up next. At this point Bryce is taking care of the football as well as Sam Howell was. Not a good omen.

I was actually a bit excited about Legette being back out there. Then I just read that our elite processor just threw a pick directly to a defensive tackle. Think that about wraps up today...

Ultimately we didn't win anything of note with any of them. We can go back and forth about what could be done differently. But I don't think any of the 3 are a loss that prevents us from being competitive altogether. We have to stop making excuses for the people in charge of drafting and developing talent. If we had been doing that even halfway competently these departures would not seem nearly as consequential. But anywho if you're feeling this way now you might want to pace yourself because this will assuredly be revisited over the next few months if they are all winning and playing at a high level with their new respective teams and the Panthers are once again flailing.

At this point I'm not even worrying about odds based on past drafts. We just need to keep shooting our shot. That's all we've got. I agree we've been abysmal at development. But it's our only path forward. And we've also been relying on con artists like Matt Rhule who never wanted to develop a young rookie quarterback in the past. Eventually we have to stumble upon someone that actually knows what they're doing. That's the hope I guess. I like Canales overall and think perhaps he could be the answer for us in this regard. I just don't know how rough the adjustment to being a first time HC is going to be for him. There's so many different needs and inner workings going on with this franchise. So far he's just trying to keep everyone upbeat and positive. That's great for July and August. But we'll see how that demeanor is working come November.

Starters sit the first preseason game. Fluff article comes out about how much the vets like Canales. Recent practices have had some ups but a heaping portion of downs and then practice wraps early after removing pads and going back to shells. There is no doubt that Canales is taking a page out of early Ron Rivera's book on his locker room and how he approaches camp and preseason. It could work. But it also gives the vibe that the fanbase is getting another year of softness.

Canales is starting here fresh. Morgan was intimately involved in some of the decisions that led to the trainwreck that got the previous GM fired. That cannot be ignored. Morgan needs to hit on his draft picks big time. That is the only way he will be a success here. All this talk about dawgs is falling on deaf ears because so far it's looking like the starters just want to be babied in camp.

DeMeco Ryans disagrees with you.

It isn't just about challenging him. The starter job was always going to be his this season. It's about having someone anyone that can actually be developed at low cost that isn't a total trash can or a washed up vet that serves no purpose. It's also about what's best for the team. We have other young players on the roster that need to be developed. There are 17 games to be played and that experience is valuable. But only if we have backup QB's capable of providing anything of substance. Having the worst QB room in the league is not that. Ideally the Panthers should have drafted a late round QB this year to go along with another QB next year. The Panthers need real leadership on the roster on the offensive side of the ball badly. If you aren't getting that from your QB in some capacity you do not have a QB. Until that exists it's the cellar for us.

Standards around here are subterranean.

I think it boils down to the baffling inconsistency in the approach from Fitterer from the jump. And Rhule before he got here. They flipped back and forth between trying to win now and a partial rebuild. It should have been a full rebuild all along. All roads go back to Tepper. Without his constant meddling and always pushing for the wrong decision and making big splashes to get him media attention we could already be competing for the playoffs. I'm talking all the way back to the 2020 offseason. Ever since he did Cam that way it's been disaster. That's no coincidence. We're snakebit.