BrisbanePanther

This is priceless! Well done on that reference...he used burgers a pay day loan...pretty sure he never got out of debt either.

Jimmy Haslem, Jimmy Irsay, Cal McNair, Stephen Ross, and Woody Johnson say Hi. Not saying Tepper is great, good, or smart, but whatever he is, those five dopes run circles around him and have been doing it much longer too.

I've been a fan of this team since they were awarded in '93. No one our roster was alive when there wasn't a Carolina Panthers, and most of them were in middle and high school when Cam was drafted. Many weren't in the league the last time we won a playoff game. So yes, give me one Super Bowl win. Having one will change the culture of the franchise and establish a new standard of, "we should be contending for a title" instead of "we competed, but shucks, maybe next time". It worked for Baltimore, who lets remember were the Browns and never won anything. All I know is that for the GB/DET game this weekend, despite how hot they've been, very few (including in Michigan) expect DET to win for two reasons: 1. They're playing GB, and everyone defers to GB winning and having to be convinced otherwise. 2. GB has Rodgers, who only won one but people are more shocked when he loses than when he wins. That's the expectation culture that I hope the franchise gets to someday, much like Carolina, Duke, Alabama, Clemson, and others do in their sports. If having Harbaugh here for 4-5 years raises the standards of what we accept a redefines "normal" in a good way, I'm all for it. 30 years of hope/"catching fire in bottle"/"we can make some noise"/"we do better when no one expects us to win" is plenty enough time. If he's a short-timer that raises the franchise's profile to attract a successor like Reid or Tomlin or the Hoodie or Carroll or his brother, so be it.

I agree with you, but it may be a time to reflect on ourselves as a viewing market too. Many people have a different definition of "real" football, "smashmouth" football, "hit you in the mouth" football, etc. Many hate the rules protecting QBs because it makes the game "too soft". Many complain about the rules focusing on wide open offense that "legislates defense out of the game". We do at some point have to ask ourselves honestly if what happened tonight was always something we thought could happen but hope never did? We are an optimistic species overall, but it may be time to check if that's still appropriate now.

The case for doing what it takes to acquire a top QB who can will the team to winning is made right here. That's what the league sees, not a "as long as he doesn't mess it up" game manager QB and all the highs and lows of that. Much rather a QB that we have confidence in to win us games rather than hope and crossed fingers.

Pitts is this 100%, and OJ Howard, and David Njoku, maybe others. People kept then trying to find Antonio Gates and Greg Olsen and Jason Witten, and now Kelce and maybe Andrews and Ertz--the only TEs that really held their place in offenses recently. Too many others end up like Jimmy Graham.

We're not likely to ever be completely there. We'll start every year thinking we're strong at a position, then at the end of the year see it as a weakness due to injuries or players not panning out or free agency. We've had holes basically since 1995 and have spent years plugging them and only twice was that for a QB in the first round. The only teams in recent history that were truly strong at all positions but QB (true "only a QB away") were SF and the Rams...and those teams have largely used their draft picks as trade currency to get there.

I actually think the Browns trades makes #1 cheaper than normal...still costly, but not unheard-of. Caserio seems to be on the hotseat. He needs players now and currently has #1 and #11. They are not a QB away. He may be the busiest GM leading to the draft, and getting the chance for more potential starters in 2023 may matter to him most. Some mocks have Levis at 1. He could get him at 8, and gain more Day 2 picks.

This is where I am with him now. I was firmly in the pro-Young (or Williams/Maye) side and was lukewarm on Stroud, but he had Kirby Smart vexed and you could see it on his face. All the while, Stroud seemed just as composed and cool in what was clearly a road game against the current champs. And without his top receiver he almost willed his team to a win using a skillset that many called his weakness. He never made a dumb play or a play that risked the game and was clearly the only reason why OSU had a chance, and if the kicker does his job, the whole narrative changes. I went from meh to sold. I'm offering Chicago 8 this year, a #1 in '25, and a #2 in '24 and '26 (need the #1 in 24 to maybe package with DJ to take Harrison Jr for Burrow/Chase 2.0). I'd have to make sure to beat Indy's offer and maybe Detroit, Vegas, and Atlanta. If we back into the division win, then it's Trey Lance territory and I'm not even thinking twice. To balk at this conveniently misremembers the price of our latest wins.

Self-explanatory. We saw both Young and Stroud play big final games. If we want one of them, Chicago's phone is taking calls. What's your offer that convinces them to accept? There's surely 2 1sts involved. What's the sweetener?

Even if we make the playoffs we can still get it done. It'll just cost more. And it'll be worth the price.

1. Sign Wilks to a 4-year deal 2. Acquire Lamar. If that doesn't work, roll with Corral and a couple 1-yr vets, and trade whatever picks and unprotected players from '23 for '24 picks to try to have enough ammo to move up to draft Maye/Williams. 3. Sign bona fide TEs and fill in holes with short deals. 4. Win division by default again next year as it'll still be a poo-show. 5. Use acquired '24 draft ammo to draft Maye/Williams. 6. Establish dominance over NFC South for at least the rest of the decade.

SF over MIN CIN over BUF CIN over SF as revenge.

My totally not-based-on-anything guesses that I think happen if Wilks gets the gig full-time: 1. He probably only agrees to it if he can be aggressive and get the QB he wants whether by FA, trade or draft...he's already lived through Josh Rosen and knows that a 2nd season is not a guarantee. Future picks will almost certainly be traded. He is not leaning on Corral or Sam to secure his job. His role in the lawsuit probably helps his case to mortgage the future too. 2. He hires a proven leader as OC, and maybe a name we haven't heard in a while like David Shaw or Jim Caldwell. Again, following the "leader of men" model who he can turn the offense over to. 3. Players come to Charlotte who ordinarily would not have. He's clearly highly regarded by players--even those not on the team--some of which are vocal about him deserving a shot. Maybe even one quality name that meets a need like Gesicki or Engram. 4. Panther Greats get formal roles with the team--maybe also on the coaching staff. Peppers, Luke, Thomas Davis, maybe 89. At minimum, they're back in the building frequently. 5. He makes underrated moves with coaches and players to focus on making special teams much more explosive to win the field position game.

Fair enough. That being said, he was always going to start with a fan deficit. He--from Pittsburgh or wherever--was strongarmed by the league to be the owner, despite the fact that his offer was reportedly less than Navarro's--basically a hometown-ish option. It's possible that only a Super Bowl win will help him with the fans, and even then it'll be short-lived.

I think three of the QB-needy teams ahead of us may sign him and use their high-picks for game-breaker skill positions. Indy signs him (b/c that's their move) and drafts Johnston, or Seattle or Detroit signs him and drafts defense.

Is it because of his actions? Or his inactions, because I get confused. He didn't fire Hurney soon enough (inaction) but then he hired Rhule (action--lauded at the time, btw) then took too long to fire Rhule (inaction) and spoke up to draft Fields (action) but didn't force the team to draft him (inaction) and somehow ok'd Darnold's trade and option (was that an action...or inaction) and maybe signed off on the Watson pursuit (maybe he was actively involved...or maybe he was inactive and let his football people deal with it). Or maybe it was the Rock Hill situation (action at first, then inaction, then action) or the stadium talk (action then inaction). It's almost like Huddle wanted him to pay the money and go fishing while the football people (Fitt, Rhule, Hurney) do their jobs...and keep paying them to be below average except intervene to get rid of them...because they were below average.

He had a good game today, and having the Lions D from earlier this season show up helped. Still not the answer for tomorrow.

Gotta say, I find the continuous Minshew love...odd. If he was as great as Huddle makes him out to be, he'd be playing on Sundays now...not sitting. It's unlikely that Huddle has some insight that thousands of NFL staff members don't. All that said, I'm on the record for trading to get the guy you want--not wait for one to fall to you. If we're only a QB away, then make the move and let's go. Alternatively, find a way to accumulate capital for the '24 draft, roll with Corral, and then make a decision on chasing Williams or Maye if he looks more like Clausen.

This to me is the key part here. In the 2022 NFL, we should be beyond one-dimensional smashmouth football...it should be punishing football where opponents are demoralized by the offense on the ground AND through the air, plus a lights-out, opportunistic D and special teams. We already had this in 2015. Again, that's why we need a QB that can impose his will on a defense to go along with a run game that threatens to. We should be able to exploit all their attacks, not just bullying on the ground.

QB. Use whatever draft acrobatics needed to get one. It's the trade-off of these recent wins and probably puts even more confidence in the rest of the team...who all likely feel that QB is the weak spot anyway.

A win doesn't change the fact that we have no legit QB...it just changes the calculus and makes getting one more expensive. Cam and Kerry Collins are the only 1st round QBs in almost 30 years. Replacements on D is just wash, rinse, repeat of Panther football, which has netted way more losses than wins.

I'm not sure I was pro-tank as much as I was pro-get-a-franchise QB-with-only-one-pick. I personally think Young is one but that's my opinion. So now I'm pro-winning every game, then pro-not being satisfied with wherever the draft position is. Like @Aussie Tank said, maybe we just got a bunch of picks back to send them the Houston or Chicago to get our guy, 'cause Darnold ain't it. Or, for our bargain-hunting lovers, maybe 15 or 17 or wherever we land is for sale and we start collecting picks for '24 and make a move then. That may be a better option, especially if we can end up like Seattle and Detroit with the Broncos and Rams picks.

I had a bit of fun with this with a couple runs. Where Young fell to us: 6. Bryce Young QB Alabama 39. Josh Downs WR North Carolina 80. Dalton Kincaid TE Utah 105. Devon Achane RB Texas A&M 109. Ricky Stromberg OC Arkansas 126. Tyler Steen OT Alabama 131. Carter Warren OT Pittsburgh 142. Jalen Graham LB Purdue 159. Mike Morris EDGE Michigan 166. Cory Trice CB Purdue 214. Payton Wilson LB NC State 2024 LAR 3rd 2024 LAR 5th But even more fun with this one--assuming we thought Young, Stroud, or Williams in '24 as the only acceptable QB of the future options and accepted almost all trade requests: 57. Tank Bigsby RB Auburn 65. Andre Carter II EDGE Army 66. Layden Robinson OG Texas A&M 72. DeMarvion Overshown LB Texas 85. Cameron Latu TE Alabama 89. Owen Pappoe LB Auburn 105. Warren McClendon OT Georgia 116. Zion Tupuola-Fetui EDGE Washington 139. Derick Hall EDGE Auburn 147. Steele Chambers LB Ohio State 150. Olusegun Oluwatimi OC Michigan 211. Grayson McCall QB Coastal Carolina 226. Tykee Smith S Georgia 2024 JAX 1st 2024 NYG 1st 2024 ARI 1st 2024 TB 1st 2024 CIN 2nd 2024 DEN 3rd 2024 TEN 3rd 5(!) firsts in the following draft, plus an extra second and two extra thirds? Totally unrealistic fantasy but one can dream as we'd totally control that draft and future ones with teams trying to position.

This is exactly what will happen. Getting the wins for now may feel nice at the moment for the current coaches and players, the pick price for a new franchise QB keeps going up. I'm all for them winning out, as long as we all understand that it means many of this and next year's picks disappearing as @Krovvy said.