BrisbanePanther

It's not gambling if it's a guarantee. Vegas isn't paying attention to Carolina because this franchise has never mattered (other than the Cam years and even then people held their nose to do it). Panthers will lose by 70 or 77 as Dallas guards against any potential playoff seeding tiebreakers.

I saw a Youtube case yesterday that suggested that maybe Houston leaked Stroud's S2. If they did so...wow, how genius would that be. I don't believe that though.

I'd guess the percentage of QBs in NFL history is probably less than 1% and that'd be because of a combination of old school views of who has the body type and who does, so that makes the pool automatically smaller. But if there's been 10 starting QBs under 6 ft and three of them are successful--that's a 30% hit rate, which I suspect is higher than the hit rate of 6ft+ QBs but is an infinitesimal number for all QBs. OTOH, there's also been no successful 7ft QBs either (or any over 6'7" IIRC). If height was a key to success, you'd see taller QBs and we just don't see them. Plus, there's surely no material difference between a 5'11 QB and a 6' one. I think part of the reason why people are watching Bryce is to see if he changes the conversation on who can play QB for this exact reason. Many are hoping he's like Steph Curry (even though Steph is not that short, but he was very slight) for football. That would significantly expand the pool of potential players, which would only be good for the sport. If he fails, that'll probably be the end of this experiment.

So the counter is that swapping Young for Stroud (or Levis or Mac Jones or any other QB over 6 ft) is the only difference here? We suck because Bryce is too short and slight and can't throw more than five yards to make better use of Fitt's roster? He's the problem 100%?

This will be Dolphins-Broncos territory. Dallas might actually have 70+. Dak will throw for five scores, Cooper Rush for two more in relief. Tony Pollard will score two TDs and Bryce will give them one fumble on a Parsons sack and one pick that bounces off of Hurst's hands into a Cowboys defender's. 77-0. Carolina with less than 100 yds of offense on less that 15 minutes TOP.

Thing is...if Ben Johnson didn't say no and had actually accepted the role, are we feeling differently about Tepper and his choices?

I'm no pro (or even a rookie) at checking odds, but curious what Vegas had as the favorite for OROY between Young and Stroud. Also curious what the odds were that Stroud would be MVP. That info would tell us how big the island was that we seem to think the Panthers were on when they picked the Bama kid over the Buckeye kid. The irony is that Young is playing the way people feared Stroud would play. For that matter, what was the Huddle poll that was posted at that time? We have a lot of "I wanted Stroud" people now, but I thought the Huddle poll favored Young? Maybe I'm misremembering.

Jackpot. How professional sports have bought into this sabermetric snake oil is beyond me. It's extremely rare to win with analytics, and I'd argue that it's impossible in the NFL due to the nature of the game upending your analysis. Too many players get knocked out or play at less than 100% consistently for analytics to be reliable. Besides, front offices should be very afraid of leaning on analytics. If it were so great, if I owned this team I suspect that I could clean house and just ask ChatGPT who I should draft and sign. At this rate, the team's record would probably be better.

The bolded part is what I think is most likely, hence my view of any significantly better openings. There may be better ones, but there will be some mitigating factors attached. Yes, if Chargers open up then that's clearly the top opening and it's not even close. That being said, I'm not sure Staley is as close out the door as it would seem. You have to have a plan to replace him with somebody, else you risk getting a worse outcome like our favorite team has. They're at least in the conversation every year, but that franchise in a way is just a better version of Carolina--they win more games, are more exciting, have a dud and hated owner (who pays rent to another team, just lol), but they've never closed the deal. They also have stretches where they fall asleep and underperform and have for decades. Staley hasn't done anything different in that respect. The other openings are a stretch IMO--I don't think the Giants move on; the scene still seems positive for the current regime. Cards is also unlikely, and they have a coach who was also a relatively hot commodity IIRC. NE moving on from Belichick could also happen, but other than a high draft pick it's not that attractive of an opening in that division. Whoever takes that job could get run over by Miami and Buffalo annually and will always be compared to Bill without many pieces...their offensive skill position talent might actually be the same or worse than Carolina's, and other than Randy Moss, they've also never spent too big on bringing people in on offense. I think Bill gets one more season, with a new vet QB (he's not drafting one unless he gets #1) and one last playmaker FA (like Burns), but apparently he and Kraft no longer like each other so it's definitely possible that he's out. Bears could be because of the draft picks, which would be juicy, but I wouldn't be surprised if CHI had to attach some day 2 or day 3 picks to move Fields elsewhere. You'd think that they'd sack Eberflus this year, but they make weird decisions up there--he theoretically should have been sacked already. That franchise has also been no-good since the Lovie-Grossman days, and has never been known as a QB hotspot. The irony with Demeco and Houston is that there was some weird chatter that he actually didn't want to go to the Texans. It made too much sense for him to go there and well, here we are.

At this rate, maybe he should hang on to his threat and wait until '25.

We sometimes go too hard on the navel-gazing. Houston is already that team--O'Brien, Culley, Lovie sacked three years straight. Funny thing is, 97% of this board would love to be in Houston's shoes, so sack everybody until they show they have it right from camp and preseason. If Cal (not a good owner) and Caserio (a questionable GM) had that view, Ryans isn't their coach today. Stroud (and Anderson) are not on that team. There is nothing less special about Carolina amongst the other moribund franchises. We're not the Stillers or 9ers or Ravens. Churn as much as necessary. We're down on Bryce, but no other franchise would be a significantly better opening if Frank is gone. It's the perfect situation for a new person to have a year or two to decide if Bryce is his guy or if he wants to pick his own in 2025/26. Enough offensive coaches/coordinators will relish the opportunity to "fix" him/this offense and if they look promising enough they'll have the opportunity to do so or replace him.

We can say that about a lot of "leaders". In that case, the Panthers are nowhere near unique. If only qualified people made decisions, the world would be a much more boring place. Normal, but boring.

There's a lot of highly-paid non-Carolina people who don't think he is, and didn't think he would be. They also thought that Stroud would be limited and that Richardson had a longer way to go than he looked before his injury. With the number of high draft picks that wash out, the whole NFL Draft Industrial Complex needs to be demolished, and we shouldn't be dopes to watch all that trash leading up to every April. And like morons, everyone will be back watching the combine again.

I mean I guess we could ask ourselves what difference our whinging on an online forum makes too--probably not much, maybe none. I don't think they expect it to actually change anything directly, but ridiculing and not going guarantees that it'll indeed be six "basement dwellers". I just think it's the equivalent of booing your own team at home--which also does little or nothing. However, since it's 2023--if a large enough showing were there it might get viral enough to be embarrassing. Would Tepper be embarrassed enough to do anything is another story.

I watched Julian as well...isn't this the kind of feedback that we've been hoping for? No lies were told. That said, hopefully Tepper by process of elimination realizes that he is the common denominator. My guess is that he's trying to shortcut to a winner because that'll make the climate easier to discuss the stadium. It's totally backfiring and all he's doing is pushing things out...this is the same town that refused to negotiate with Shinn. I don't want him to totally walk away though and "hand over to the football people" while he chases building a moon colony or whatever to keep himself occupied because then that risks him getting disinterested and someday not willing to spend when he should. He has to find a balance. Maybe he can shift gears and focus on the new stadium (the project features and design, not the deal--that's a long way off), because it's at least a team-oriented distraction while he hires a President of Football Operations that he knows and can trust. Then again, sometimes these people are who they are.

You made my point. No one cares.

My point is not that they were so bad that they moved. My point is that once they moved they were like a totally different franchise. They're always in the SB contender conversation, and have won twice. Their impact on the league was totally different and they have been afforded a deference, prime time TV, etc that is significant. I think they have done much better year over year in Baltimore than Cleveland--even though they were in Cleveland much longer. Maybe the move was a coincidence, but it's a flashpoint that you can also point to.

We had signs that Brown was a dud since his playbook was what has been used all season--regardless of playcaller. Didn't Brown interview with Houston for their HC job? If the fate of the universe rested on them answering the question of who they're happier that they didn't end up with--Bryce or Brown--what would their answer be?

Oh, and while I like Eddy, the fact that he felt liberty to shrug his shoulders after his miss spoke volumes to me. It's fine to feel that way on the inside, but I never thought I'd see a kicker on a bad team get to shrug his shoulders. I don't care if they asked to kick at 70 yards.

He's clearly not it either. Aside from Brown, McCown and Evero, I think Tepper became the retirement plan for a bunch of coaches too.

I don't get to watch too many games wall to wall. I wasted hours today when I should have been sleeping. I knew it would be bad, but not this bad. I'm not even angry. For the first time, I'm convinced that this franchise is broken all the way down to its foundation from day 1--and that precedes Tepper. We're just seeing it come to full effect now. Aside from a miraculous recovery over the next year or so, they may be in move-the-team-and-have-a-fresh-start mode like the Browns when they moved to Baltimore. The Toronto Panthers will be an awesome franchise someday. This may be the worst that they have ever looked, and I've been with them since day 1.

So one actual premium player, one hopefully premium player (the 2024 #1, which likely would not be trending #1 with a journeyman QB like Dalton) and two coin-flip premium prayers given Carolina's track record, unless you consider our current 2nd rounder WRs premium. The 2023 #1 was a swap. Sorry, but DJ + 3 gambles were traded, not five premium players which IMO should be sure-fire players on-track for all-pro careers. Maybe those picks would be difference makers through dumb luck, but the last few #1s for Carolina are Bryce (maybe bust), Ickey (maybe bust), Horn (maybe bust), and Burns (soon-to-be albatross contract). The #2s are also busts. This team can't draft. Full stop. So they just spared themselves from four likely stupid moves by making one potentially stupid one.

I know about DJ. Who are the other four?

It won't take all that. He'll just right a check tomorrow and buy the Observer. Then sack Fowler. Then buy the next media outlet that hires Fowler. Then sack him again. On and on and on...all while spending the equivalent of couch cushion change.

Draft capital, maybe, but he made his mark at Houston as a player (I know because I always had him on my fantasy teams). Wouldn't shock me if he lived there this whole time too--tons of pros live in the Houston area in the off-seasons. I know Tepper leaves a lot to be desired, but let's be clear here--Cal McNair's rep was no better than Tepper's, and Caserio's was worse than Fitt's. I know we're not in the business of watching other teams closely, but fans of the Texans--a replacement team that'll never dislodge the Oilers' fandom there--might actually hate Cal more than Panthers fans hate Tepper.