panther4life

Remember him well from his days with the saints. He's an enforcer for sure. 15 Forced fumbles in 7 seasons plus these exotic stats.

Well the good news is, he's 21 years old and these issues are coachable. This guy sounds incredibly football savvy and has tools to break down film well. I did some quick research and he's certainly no authority on NFL QB's. So I wouldn't take what he says as the gospel, and if you did Josh Allen would have been undrafted.

This is what I thought we’d see from Peter King, but appears he’s passed the torch down to Breer. Ive stated it multiple times I hated trading D.J away but at the end of the day, we did what we had to do so this franchise can finally end this terrible cycle and pounce at a rare opportunity to pick their number 1 choice at QB, when there’s more than 1 guy potentially worthy. This is the first offseason where the team has basically done everything I’ve wanted them to and it’s been amazing to see. Now let’s go get Dalton Schultz, Jakobi Meyers and Adam Thielen!

The only thing I hate about this trade is having to give up D.J, but it’s been made abundantly clear it was a deal breaker for the Bears. Makes me wonder what they would have done if we refused to included him? What was the next best offer they had?

This may not be his fault and just scheme related but I must say, the amount of swing passes that are at or behind the line of scrimmage really bother me. I have seen him and know he can make downfield throws accurately too but in a lot of his games that I was able to watch, especially in the first half id say a very large percentage of his passes we’re behind the line of scrimmage or just past it by a couple yards. Conversely when you watch Stroud his percentage of throws that are at least 5 yards beyond the LOS are significantly more. With then having similar completion percentages, this makes me think Stroud is the more accurate downfield thrower, while Bryce pads his completion percentage with swing passes. One could argue that’s a result of the coaches scheming and weapons available but still wish I saw a higher percentage of his throws made downfield like you do with Stroud.

Now that we have secured the number 1 pick, I have decided to invest the time in watching as many games of both Bryce Young and C.J Stroud as possible. Below are links to games condensed down to just the passing plays by each QB and are only a few minutes long each. I Really am having trouble reconciling who I like better here. I'm currently leaning Stroud but would be happy with either. If you get a chance to watch some of or all of these games, I would love to hear your feedback. My early observations are this: Stroud: Stroud is the better pure passer, his throws look effortless Stroud only throwing to wide open targets is a myth Stroud looks to throw downfield almost every play, where as a short throw is a secondary read Stroud's receivers were clearly head and shoulders above Alabamas Stroud displays some ability to run but never seemed to want to, nor is he blazing fast when doing so Stroud is more than capable of QB sneaks to move the chains in short yardage situations Best game to watch is vs GA Young: Young is a bit more elusive and more willing runner while still keeping his eyes downfield Young throws a lot of swing passes behind the line of scrimmage (I'm sure its all scheme as college fields are wider than NFL) Young does show the capability to throw accurately downfield, but didn't seem to be asked to do so nearly as much as Stroud Young's size seemed to help him squirm away from defenders but never really seemed to hold him back Best game to watch is vs TN Bryce Young 22 season full games: Vs Utah State https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15TTxhh333Q Vs Texas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnzZIyVhb6s&t=2s Vs. TN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmupxNDEsIA&t=1s Vs. LSU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNDX3R6fYWQ Vs Auburn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5v7_BnJG98 Vs Ole Miss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE9gcoiHeCU Vs. Ksu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IziPB7TKY4 Vs MS ST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4oY00g6LuQ Vs Georgia national championship (2021) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K91m5hKjc0&t=22s C.J Stroud full games 22 season: Vs Georgia (Peach Bowl) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsPHomKJiAA Vs Michigan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RARzSJkPbq0 Vs Notre Dame https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt782XZh7oE Vs Wisconsin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfPRTfYme-4&list=PLRjDEOZVjKrQJUkAsVv6KYL31QbPQMHRV&index=4 Vs. Penn State (this one is full game, not cut down to just pass plays) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AZz_prS9fo

1. I don't think this will happen 2. If it were to happen, why would Houston pull the trigger on any trade until they are on the clock? Either we take their number 1 choice and influence them to trade up, or we don't and they give up nothing to get their guy. 3. The precedent has already been set by the Bears trade from 3 to 2 for Tribusky in 2017. They gave 67(3rd rounder),111(4th rounder) and the next years 3rd. Sure you could probably squeeze a little more juice out of this one but I don't think we are getting 12 from them.

We didn’t get fleeced but it was a fair deal for both sides. Jumping from 9 to 1 is a large jump. I think everyone agreed it would take 3 first, + a 2nd round pick. D.J has the value of a first round pick. Packers offered us a 1st round pick last year for Moore per Jay Glazer. I’m super happy we did what we had to, to end this madness of dreaming we can go somewhere without a QB. However Moore is being criminally under rated by some. I don’t know of any other WR putting up such numbers with inferior QB play. He’s also been very reliable in that I can’t remember him missing many games due to injuries either. I hate we had to give him up, but still glad we made the deal.

I am so happy! I have not been shy about my opinion that the time was now to make this move. Still kind of surreal that they actually did it! We have been a bottom 3 team league wide for a few years and now I think we can really build something from the ground up here

From https://overthecap.com/draft 2023 Cap hit: 7.3 Million 2024 Cap hit: 9.2 Million 2025 Cap hit: 11 Million 2026 Cap hit: 12.9 million Total value 40.4 Million, + a team 5th year option. Lamar is going to cost someone else around 45-50 million per year. Literally 4.5-5x the amount we will get the rookie for. Plus I am sure the rookie will take to coaching much better than any proven vet would have at this point. I like the idea of our coaching staff we assembled helping mold a rookie that will be a panther for a long long time. Also if you're having a hard time visualizing the compensation, this might help you digest: Swap 1st rounders this year, D.J Moore and pick 61(from niners) this year Round 1 pick next year Round 2 pick 2025 We still have pick 39,93(from niners),114,132(from niners),145 this year. 2024 we have every pick but our 1st rounder and 2025 every pick but our 2nd rounder.

Hate to see you D.J go, like really sucks to have no number 1 receiver now. However I've been pushing hard as anyone that the time was now! Wonder who he's going it to be, Young Or Stroud?

I wasn’t a fan of hiring Wilks for the job full time but you can’t gloss over the fact he inherited a team that had gone 1-11 in their last 12 and then proceeded to take them to 6-6 in the 12 under his tenure. This stat is not really an indictment on him by any means.

Carr is undoubtedly the best free agent QB. If we go that route then I’d be happier with him than anyone else. I know I have been pounding the drum to trade up for a QB but in reality there’s not a single option that seems like a slam dunk for us at QB this offseason or the foreseeable future unfortunately.

I just think people are over valuing picks that don’t land you a QB. Even if you landed the 3 best non QB’s in the draft the last 3 seasons, those players still don’t equate to the Value of a Patrick Mahomes,Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Jalen Hurts, etc. I could see why people would think the idea is outlandish if I were suggesting this to move up for a Kenny Pickett type prospect but these guys are much closer to the aforementioned names than him imo.

Again I don’t care how we find the QB! Point is you need find one who can get us to the next level. I am also saying I’m comfortable giving up 3 1st round picks to get that guy. If the 9 pick or later would land us an equivalent to Mahomes,Burrow, Allen or Hurts type of QB then fine. Or if you want to go further back in history I’ll take a Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning or Rothelisberger too! But I’m not so stubborn and bullish on the value of those picks that I wouldn’t trade 3 1st to get that type of QB. I also don’t see a quicker way than moving up for Young or Stroud to get us there, therefore that’s why I’m willing to risk it.

@CPantherKing I appreciate all the time you put into that post but in reality there’s no simple formula or statistical breakdown that will provide you a blueprint in the NFL. Things change quickly so fast. 1 thing is certain in my mind and that’s a Franchise QB is the best way to have a winning team that at least has a chance to be in the Super Bowl. Teams consistently invest heavy in that position whether it be trading draft picks, drafting QB’s high or paying them the largest % of the cap. With only a 3% chance of any given team winning the Super Bowl each year the odds are not in anyone’s favor. However having an elite QB certainly hedges your bets. Pats won 6 with Brady and to prove its not just the team built around him he went and won another one with the Bucs. Peyton Manning is the reason the colts won a superbowl recently and same for the Broncos. Mahomes is the primary reason the Chiefs have won 2 lately. Joe Burrow has been the main reason the Bengals have been knocking on the door Bills are getting closer too and it’s mostly because of Josh Allen Jalen Hurts was the driving force behind the Eagles getting there this year. While you can always find outliers, in the current structure of the NFL no 1 position or even a combination of 3 others is more important than the QB position. It really makes no difference to me on how you obtain the QB but im personally more comfortable trading up to 3 first for the right guy. Would I prefer we give up nothing and land the guy as a day 3 pick. SURE but that’s not a route I want to sit around and hope pray works out for us.

“Who’s dat bear” immediately comes to mind. Guess he won’t be back

Most teams picking number 1 overall don’t already have a QB they already believe in. Supposedly the Bears find themselves in that position. This is a rare opportunity we find ourselves in. I have my doubts that 3 first would even be enough to get us there. But I’m just stating it’s worth the risk to me. We have played this low risk/ low reward game for far too long and I want to try a different strategy.

Nothing guarantees a superbowl win. But not having a top tier QB almost guarantees you won’t win one. There has only been 11 QB’s to win a Super Bowl in the last 20 years. Only 5 in the last 9 years Would that have stopped you from drafting all the ones that didn’t or at least trying to trade up for them? How many QB’s would you have to name before you could come up with a player at any other position that would put us closer to winning a Super Bowl?

Bottom line is this, whether you think we have done drafting well in the first or you think we haven’t there’s no harm in trading 2 additional first in an attempt to go land a franchise QB. If we mismanage our first round picks anyway, then who cares if we give a couple away to go get our number 1 choice at QB. Or if you think we’ve done excellent at drafting in the first and it still leaves us as a bottom 5 team, then you should also see the value in letting a couple go to get a top QB. Why save 2 first and take the 3rd-4th option left at QB unless you think this is a super deep class where multiple QB’s have a shot at becoming the guy we need. I suppose that’s possible but I’m ready to hedge out bets and not settle, let’s go get the best!

Depth is at the bottom of totem pole until we find a QB and that’s precisely the point that I’m making here. We’ve got to do whatever it takes to land a franchise QB, otherwise nothing else matters.

I would have loved to trade up for any of the QBs ahead Brown in 2020 and I’m also pounding the drum to trade and get a QB this year. I think your discounting the rate in which 1st round picks also but as well. Look no further than the picks immediately after Brown. Isiah Simmons and C.J Henderson. You could argue we should have taken an offensive tackle there and that also would have been a good pick, probably even better. But we chose DT to bolster our d-line and he was much better than Javon Kinlaw the next one taken. Even the non QB’s taken ahead of Brown haven’t panned out either. Lastly injuries are part of the business in the NFL, so hard to hold Horn against them for picking him.

^ meant to say since cam became ineffective after 2017

Somehow his firing hasn’t helped us yet. As a matter of fact we’ve regressed. 2017-2020 we went 28-36(438 w%)Since his departure were 12-22 (.353 w %). Of course that’s because of the demise at QB, which has been our problem biggest problem since we drafted Cam back in 2011.

If you look at our cumulative record over the last 5 seasons (29-53). We are the 3rd worst NFC team over that stretch and 5th worst in the NFL. https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-record-over-the-past-5-years In the last 4 seasons were the 2nd worst team in the NFC and 5th worst overall https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-record-over-the-past-4-years In the last 3 seasons were tied with the bears for the worst team in the NFC and tied for 4th worst in the NFL https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-record-over-the-past-3-years Since November 5th 2019 Panthers are 17-41, the worst in the NFC and the 3rd worst team in the NFL (2 losses shy of being the worst). https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/worst-nfl-record-since-november-5th-2019 In that time frame we have managed to do some things right. Our first round picks have all been excellent since the 2018 draft. D.J Moore, Brian Burns, Derrick Brown, Jaycee Horn and Icky Ekwonu. If you look at franchise tag values, these are all premium cornerstone non QB positions. We have also built up a good offensive line and particular my strong at the Tackle positions. So good in fact that most don’t want to invest a 1st round pick in the o-line this year. We also had arguably one of the best offensive playmakers in the NFL in Christian Mccaffrey. So why are we so terrible when we keep knocking at the first round draft picks at premium positions, have an pretty good offensive line and a defense that’s been widely praised? We all know the answer to that. 1. Coaching 2. QB On paper we have assembled the best coaching staff you could ask for and there’s no changing that now. So problem 1 fixed. Onto problem number 2. We have tried hard to cut corners and lost draft currency + cap room on failed QB’s. We have gone down the road of acquiring the best QB’s we could get our hands on. Bridgewater, Darnold, and Mayfield without parting with 1st round picks.They all failed us. If you want to go down that same wishing well we could spend even more cap space than previously spent on David Carr or Jimmy G. Sure they could be better than the last ones we tried and that would be an improvement. Both are 31 years old and could possibly help us achieve back to back winning seasons at least once over the next 5 years. In the best case scenario they will keep us from drafting in the top 10 and we will have to strike gold in finding a QB who can be our long term answer at some point during these guys potential tenure with us, otherwise we’re right back to the drawing board and who knows if we can keep the rest of the roster as strong as it currently is. It’s time to take a calculated risk and do whatever we have to, to find our franchise QB. I’m running out of patience to develop another guy and suffer through multiple losing seasons. We need someone who can come in and at minimum make us fun to watch again and potentially get us as many winning seasons if not more than the available free agents over the next 5 years and beyond. I don’t know what it will take to land one of those guys or who it even is exactly. I suspect it’s Bryce Young or CJ Stroud. I also suspect we’d have to be drafting top 2, to land one of them. We should only hope we’re lucky enough to only have to give up 3 first round picks to acquire one of these guys. Sure we could get even luckier and not have to trade anything to get our new franchise QB in this draft by sitting at 9 or striking gold later. However I don’t want to count on us being lucky, so therefore my stance remains strong on moving up to hedge our bets. Lastly, congrats to all of us for being true fans who are somehow still standing here after all these years of misery! I hope for all our sake whatever path we take, it’s the right one.