OldhamA

Again I'm not the one making definitive statements. Those are very narrow parameters [top 3, dominant, traded], but you can have Alex Smith and Mike Vick as two examples of QBs taken in the 'Top 3' who were significantly better at their second stop. Obviously Ryan Tannehill is the prime example of a 1st round QB reclamation project in recent years and he also had the misfortune of being coached by Gase. I would not be at all surprised if Payton turns Winston into a thorn in our side.

He's raw as hell and didn't play last year. They clearly thought they could remould him into a RT so they could have bookend OTs.

That's fine, just don't make definitive statements like "statistically speaking" then.

How have they trolled the league? They spent 3 1st round picks to get there. They could have told the league they were taking ANYONE besides Lawrence and Wilson. It wouldn't have mattered, the rest of the NFL couldn't do anything about it.

He'd better be an All-Pro 'cos they've mortgaged their future on him.

Link?

+ 2 fumbles of course.

If we could just keep the Justin Fields circle jerk to this thread that'd be fantastic. I'm only interested in the Panthers. Thanks in advance.

What were you expecting? There's posters going out of their way to highlight what a fantastic camp Fields has had and oh boy did we make a mistake taking Horn over him. You push people enough and you're going to get a reaction.

James Anderson was better than Thompson tbf.

Sadly those fringe players need these games. That or the NFL needs to hook up with the XFL and turn them into a developmental league.

Blamed for what, exactly? Inheriting a talent depleted roster and making us a tough out ever week?

The reason(s) for those three losing seasons are no longer on the books though - surely that can't be held against Rhule and Fitterer? Rhule's decisions so far (coaching, FA's and drafting) have only increased my confidence in him. As for those low-level OL FAs that we significantly overpaid for - we signed both on the FIRST day of FA. Our GM / HC clearly think that they're significant upgrades over what we had and fit the system we're trying to play.

Exactly - I made the same point about the lack of coverage of TC. At the end of the day, Rhule and co can't hide on Sundays. He's not given me a reason to doubt his judgement yet.

So if we turn into a winning team this year it's luck? Not shrewd management and coaching?

He has a 50 yard TD scramble - can't imagine there's many NFL QBs that have that on their resume.

Tell him to add a couple of 00s to that if he's so cocksure.

You're insane.

No, no, this is definitely year two of the rebuild. He picked up a couple of cornerstones in Brown and Chinn in year one (fingers crossed YGM continues to develop) - they're not freebies. He made a mistake by listening to his OC and his mentor and investing heavily in Bridgewater. I'm glad he was ruthless / wise enough to move on from that error quickly (besides his play on the field [i.e. leaving plays on them] he was a bad culture fit too). He's made the bold move of trying to reclaim Darnold (I think it's a very shrewd investment) and in the process passed over Fields and Jones at QB. He's knee deep in this rebuild now. He's had two offseasons to put together his roster with HIS players. I'm not expecting Playoffs because that's a high bar and I still think the roster is too young / lacks talent in some key areas, but I want to continue to be a tough out and finish above .500 this season. Next year I want to become a consistent winner.

Let's be real - I hate John Fox. I hate Ron Rivera. Those two coaches were incredibly flawed 'player' coaches that meant we had incredible highs and incredible lows. We wasted 3-4 Hall of Famers under those guys. Rhule is cut from a different cloth. We'll be a consistent winner under him. He's organised, process driven and ruthless. I'm willing to have patience because I can see the improvements on the field.

Two of those seasons were under Rivera and he left our roster in a sorry state. We were building from scratch last year - and we were a tough out for everyone. Yes we ended up with a losing record, but there were plenty of positives to take away from 2020. Yes, we have deficiencies on our roster, but welcome to the Salary Cap era. It's never as good or as bad as fans think. At the moment Rhule and co are clearly evaluating just exactly what we have. They've cut NINE guys already after a week of practice. They're clearly not resting on their laurels - Rhule is bringing a standard to the Panthers and quickly weeds guys out. I'll start worrying about the Oline if we get into the second pre-season game without 3/4 of the starting jobs established. If guys haven't pulled clear of the pack and we're still experimenting with Moton at RT, Christensen at RT or LG etc then yeah we're in trouble.

IF Moore, Marshall, Anderson, McCaffrey and Arnold stay healthy, Darnold will be fine. No matter what the defence brings, somebody will be single covered. They brought Darnold in because he's more physically talented than Bridgewater and because he's shown the willingness to let the ball fly. Bridgewater, as good as he was at moving the chains, left so many points on the field because he wouldn't (or perhaps couldn't) push the ball down the field on those shot plays. I'm confident we'll see a much better version of Darnold here surrounded by those skill players. The OL will be a limiting factor, but unless they're getting pressure instantly every snap we'll be ok.