woahfraze

When Bryce has time AND the WRs get open on the same play, he's money.

Who are you and what have you done with Tommy Tremble?

Lolol. I actually think that's a great playcall by McDaniel. That could have been a huge play. His players just simply didn't execute. Lucky or us.

I’d trade a 5th or 6th for him. Maybe, and just maybe, would consider a 4th. Ridiculous to think a fourth year WR who hasn’t eclipsed 1,000 yards in a season before and who wants to be traded would garner a 2nd, much less a 2nd and a 4th.

To be fair, most NFL QBs won’t be able to throw a “dot” without better positioning. It’s just a question of whether Bryce would be able to get it to Thielen well enough or if this throw would float enough to allow the defenders to close. I suspect he wouldn’t be able to, but it’s not an issue if he corrects the footwork. On the Bates interceptions, I do think Bryce was able to see him. I think he didn’t expect Bates to be able to get there and he found out in his first real live NFL action what NFL game speed looks like. And I don’t actually think that one was an arm strength issue so much as Bryce being a tick too late releasing, once again because of his footwork. That Ringer video making the rounds showed the extra half step in Bryce’s shotgun drop that delayed him just slightly in delivering the ball. I think Bryce has a good enough arm to succeed in the league. He needs to improve his timing and footwork. It’ll come with more reps and coaching. If it’s a height issue, we’ll we’re boned.

I can’t tell whether Bryce didn’t throw this because he didn’t didn’t see Thielen likely to win on the double move, he didn’t trust his arm, or if he wasn’t prepared to throw it because his footwork on the drop back didn’t have him in position to make the throw—his body isn’t lined up to make the throw in this screenshot. He’s shown great anticipation on some other throws so far, and it his head is pointing at Thielen, so I’d assume it’s either a lack of confidence in his arm (hopefully just due to him still lacking familiarity with the speed of NFL defenders…while his arm isn’t a cannon, I think he has the arm to make this throw), a footwork issue (coachable and correctable), or he couldn’t actually see Thielen over the line (most concerning since you can’t fix height and the only way to mitigate is tailoring the offense to it with moving the pocket and scheming your pass blocks to open up sight lines, which likely only works with certain routes). I hope to god it’s not the last one.

Bryce supporter here. He missed the read. It happens. To QBs of varying experience levels, not just rookies. No one is sitting her saying Bryce has played incredibly well. We’re just saying that he’s flashed the skills that have made him the number 1 pick—movement within the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield, off platform throws, anticipation. His lack of production is a product of a poor environment—personnel, scheming, playcalling—in addition to him being a rookie learning on the job. Look, I wanted Stroud. And I’m disappointed we didn’t take him. But Bryce is our QB and it’s simply too early to tell whether he’s going to pan out long term. And it’s unfair to negatively dock Bryce for not performing as well as Stroud when their situations are completely different.

Puzzling. Last season the personnel that remains this year showed they can get push in the run game. Hard to blame scheme for failing to do so when you actually get engaged, unless there's something I don't know about technique wise about what the coaches are implementing schematically that doesn't allow the players to utilize their full strength and/or leverage. I suppose that's possible. Regardless, they need to improve.

^To add on to my post above, I agree that it looks like the offensive line is really crippling the offense. You didn't show any clips of run plays, but in addition to them struggling to pass block, they are also not executing in the run game. That's not to excuse some of the other scheme issues. I believe that if Reich would open the playbook from Bryce like he did for Dalton, that would mitigate some of our issues. But like you said, the offensive line is just brutal and is torpedoing the good stuff that Riech does come up with.

Great job. This stuff is illuminating, but it also can be hard to draw full conclusions on certain plays because we aren't in the rooms with the players and coaches, so we don't know what the protection schemes should be or what the progressions are for reading the routes. On this one, I can't tell if this is on the offensive line or on Bryce. It could be that the protection wasn't properly called pre-snap and/or that combined with deceptive blitz design by the Vikings. Basically, the offensive line doesn't kick out to block the free rusher, but that's because it looks like there are multiple guys running at the RT and RG only for one of them to drop in coverage after a step and a half toward them on a feigned blitz. The offensive line has to block inside out, as the inside defenders have a shorter route to the QB. This left the LG with noone to block, with Moton handling the end, allowing the defender furthest out with a free run at Bryce. Without knowing how they handle protections, I don't know if this is an issue with how the protection was called once the Vikings showed blitz, an issue with the offensive linemen communicating pass offs o blocks during the play, or something else. It's tough to diagnose who is and isn't going to come on a Brian Flores defense, so my assumption is that the offense has to assume they all are and call the protection accordingly. With the look the VIkings showed pre-snap, that would mean Bryce should have known that there would be a guy unblocked and that defender was his responsibility, meaning he has to hit his guy on a hot route quickly after the snap. He has Hurst open on the curl route to his left and should have gotten the ball to him in that scenario. But it looks like Bryce didn't conside that blitzer as his responsibility. Not sure if that's on him or someone else, as I don't know if Bryce or Bozeman calls the protections.

Noone is saying he needs to be surrounded by world beaters at all positions. But the fact of the matter is that the offensive infrastructure--that is both the personnel, the scheme, and the playcalling--have not set him up to succeed. If any one of the following was happening, Bryce would look better: The offensive line was executing (and yes, part of the struggles are due to injuries, which are largely out of anyone's control); The scheme did not put ask the offensive line to block in a scheme (zone) that is not suited to their strengths (power scheme); The playcalling/scheme/coaching directives were not so predictable--e.g. such a large percentage of runs on first down, draining the play clock to 1 before snapping, not utilizing the whole play book and limiting the number of routes downfield All of the above have allowed defenses to really crowd the line of scrimmage and both overwhelm the offensive line and jam a group of receiving targets that aren't the best at creating separation in the first place. The scheme does not call or much motion or route combinations that would assist the receivers from creating separation on a more consistent basis. It's all a bunch of feedback loops. There are deficiencies in a lot of areas, and each deficiency magnifies problems in other areas. It all adds up to a dysfunctional offense. And a lot of these compounding issues can be corrected not by having all stars at every position, but simply getting competent, NFL-level performances from the players on the roster. Bryce is not blameless. He has missed some WRs. He has failed to recognized disguised coverages and blitzes. He has not held onto the ball when trying to extend plays. But the anti-Bryce crowd here has been blind to a fair number of positives. He has shown some ability to extend plays. He has shown the ability to scramble for first downs. He has shown pretty good accuracy in stretches where the offense plays with more tempo and they give him the opportunity to work the short-middle of the field. And most encouragingly of all, he has shown some really good anticipation on a few throws, releasing the ball before the receiver gets out of their break. Yes, the arm strength is never going to be top notch. But I don't agree with the takes that he has zero zip on his throws. The anti-Bryce crowd seem to falsely be painting the view of Bryce supporters as folks that think he's absolutely a franchise QB. But almost no one is saying that. Most of us are acknowledging that he's in a bad situation. That context is important. I was a Stroud guy going into the draft. I'm glad to see him doing well with the Texans. I wish we had taken him. But I don't think he'd be performing nearly as well in our current situation, not that that matters since Bryce is our QB.

There does need to be accountability, but the success of an offensive line is so dependent on all 5 guys being on the same page and being able to communicate with one another. Continuity is important, and this sort of shuffling in-game is likely not going to help.

I thought he was legitimately good in Week 1–had numerous impressive reps where he completely stonewalled his DT assignment in one on ones. But since then he’s had a lot of plays where the defender has put him on skates.

I don’t really agree with the overall thread name. We certainly are not OK. We are a terrible team. But I do agree that Bryce isn’t fully to blame. Has he made mistakes? Yes. He has missed open WRs on occasion. He has struggled to diagnose disguised coverages presnap. He has not protected the ball. But the infrastructure around him is really terrible. The offensive line cannot consistently block, both in the run and odd games. A lot of times when the WRs win, Bryce doesn’t have time to get the ball to them. A lot of times where the line gives him time, the WRs don’t get open. The staff has to recognize that the line isn’t winning in the run game and not put us in 2nd and 3rd and longs by calling run plays when they have. Bryce looked pretty good when they let him thrown intermediate lot in the middle of the field and he could get in a rhythm. But then the playcalling torpedoed things. Basically, no one is in sync and so the overall product is just garbage. We need the coaches to put the players in a position to succeed and the players, Bryce included, need to execute at the same time. Given all that, I think it’s too early to write of Bryce. But I am worried that this start will break him.

Hate to be a pessimist, but the Panthers as currently constituted are one of the few teams that I feel are likely to lose a game where they get a defensive score. Hopefully they can seize the momentum.

The only Jeudy I’m pro-trading for is Doug Judy, the Pontiac Bandit himself. Seriously, what has Jerry Jeudy actually shown over his 3 year career to warrant a 3rd rounder? He’s not a JAG, but he’s closer to one than he is to major difference maker. Could our roster benefit from someone like that? Sure. But not at the expense of a 3rd rounder when we’re already short on draft picks due to the Bryce Young trade.

It was due to a busted coverage, but Chark may have been more open on that play than all our WRs have been combined so far this season lol

At this point, they should just throw it to the studio. It's unwatchable.

Really well done and thorough analysis. He showed the good and the bad. JT O’Sullivan didn’t show as many of the “negative” plays for Bryce. This guy does a better job of showing the whole picture. And the overall takeaway is still the same as JT’s: that Bryce has done a lot of good things and has been hampered by his situation. Yes, there’s still been some rookie bad too, but he hasn’t played all that poorly and a lot of the lack of production has come down to the circumstances of offensive architecture and the execution of his teammates. I was already less doom and gloom than a lot of others here on the Huddle, but this video has me more optimistic for the future (even if I’m still overall pessimistic for this season).

That was a safe throw though. He just had to air it out and put enough on it that only Olave and not the defender could make a play on the ball. And he almost missed it. Had Olave not made a crazy catch, that goes down in the book as an overthrow. That’s not exactly the same thing as throwing someone open with anticipation into a tight window. Im not saying you would do this, but I guarantee if Bryce had made that attempt on a similar play and overthrew the WR by just a smidge and the WR doesn’t come down with it because we don’t have good WRs, this Board would be going ballistic that he hadn’t thrown an accurate ball.

Obviously it’s hyperbole on both ends. Of course there are plays where there are WRs open. But the fact of the matter is, our WRs are struggling to consistently create separation. And for the keyboard warriors like us who don’t play the game, we don’t know how much of that is to blame on their limitations, then not executing, and the play design/calling not scheming them open. It’s probably all of the above. And on plays where you could find a WR open, on some of them, Bryce is at fault for not finding them. And on others, it’s on the offensive line for not giving Bryce the time to find them. And on others, Bryce finds the open WR but they drop the ball (e.g. Mingo on that slant last night). Its a collective team failure and I think it’s unfair to place all the blame on Bryce. Which is not the same as saying he’s blameless at all.

The folks who are saying they’ve seen no flashes whatsoever from Bryce so far either are just box score scouting, don’t know anything about football, or simply people who will forever find something to complain about. Three throws from last night stick in my mind. The first was in the 3rd quarter, I believe. We were backed up near our own end zone and early in the drive, Bryce made a really nice throw for a first down while rolling to his left. The throw was a bit back across his body and had some zip on it. This sort of off platform, odd arm angle throw is absolutely an NFL throw and not every QB could make it. It demonstrates that Bryce has good enough arm strength. Arm strength isn’t just about throwing the ball long. It’s about the zip on the ball. Bryce isn’t Cam or Josh Allen. He can’t throw a frozen rope 40 yards to the far hash, but not a lot of QBS can. He’s got enough arm strength to play at this level. The last two were on the final TD drive. That throw to Mingo right before the TD was some capital A anticipation. He made a nice shoulder fake and then released the ball before Mingo made his break to the post. The other throw was a really nice find for the two point conversion. It didn’t look like he had anything available as he rolled right, but he fit the ball in for the conversion. He showed some flashes, particularly of his anticipation, in the Atlanta game too. Yes, we’d all like him to have performed more consistently at this point, but it’s clear as day watching that his inconsistency is just part of our overall problem on offense. It feeds and is fed by some really poor scheming, route design, and playcalling as well as failure to execute by teammates. It’s hard to know what’s the chicken and what’s the egg. Is the coaching staff unable to open up the playbook because they can’t trust the players or are the players looking worse because the coaching staff aren’t dialing up the right plays at the right time? Nothing has clicked. The team, coaching staff included, hasn’t gelled. Whether they will or not remains to be seen. Im less hopeful that the coaching staff will figure things out than I am Bryce will improve his consistency. And unfortunately that might mean overall Bryce will be seen as struggling more than he actually is.

That shouldn’t have been overturned

In no way a sustainable recipe for sustained success, but holy poo that drive was entirely rushing yards—and yes, the swing pass to Shenault is still a running play. Lol. Props to the offensive line. But more proof we definitely need to move on from Darnold (and all our other QBs) next year.