Stingray3030

Only scenarios I have seen have us trading up to 14-30 range for either Bowers at 14 or AD Mitchell somewhere in there. Could happen but I'm hoping Mitchell falls to us

Just saw a trade proposal of 2X 5th round picks for Courtland Sutton - I would do that in a heartbeat and put all this WR discussion to bed. I would still consider a WR in the 2nd round depending who is there and what is offered to move down, but it no longer becomes need #1.

Trade down - fine (depending on details). Drafting Polk with AD Mitchell on the board is an epic fail. Every single credible mock and ranking I have seen has AD Mitchell as a 1st rd talent and Polk as 3rd or lower other than this one.

I don't think the tag "disappointing" is fair for Schoony and Meyer as rookies. They both had to play beside a volume WR sucking up touches (top 2 in the league in targets). Schoony was the #2 TE behind Ferguson, so tough to be impactful as a rookie - Mayer barely played till week 5 and got hurt and missed the last 3 games, not to mention playing with a rookie QB. So once again - context matters alot. That said I believe there is 1 stud, 1 high potential overpay, and 3 big value TE's in the draft - Bowers may be Kelce so probably worth 1st round value. Sanders is getting a bit overhyped with his potential so he might go earlier than he should. I think we should be looking to snag Sinnott, Wiley, or Stover - my preference is Sinnott but Wiley could be there in rounds 4-5 or later and could be well worth it. RB I definitely think Chubba is underappreciated - again context! Our OLine was horrendous and he averaged 3.8 Y/A!!! I mean come on - dude easily lost 0.3 at least on those idiots. But that said his pass catching and pass blocking were pretty poor most of the year also. An upgrade would be great, but I tell ya, with the RB market as it is now where I can get Sequan for $12.5M, I am NEVER drafting a RB above round 4 unless he is the next CMC.....just go to the FA market and find some pocket change in your couch and get a top 5 RB. We just screwed that up with Sanders. But the guys in the 3-5 round range could be OK....there isn't a top tier RB in this draft IMO. I would sit it out this year on RB unless you can get a decent guy who falls far.....Sanders and Chubba are likely better then most anything in the draft.

I don't think C is a big enough need to take it at 33 - I realize that is not consensus - but I would be thrilled with the rest of your draft if we got that kind of value. Personally I would replace the Barton pick with a CB maybe or trade down if I was confident I could get the next 3 guys you drafted at those spots. Would be amazing if we could get exactly what you got + an extra 2nd or 3rd which has been mocked quite a few times. I am very ready for next week!

Any of you guys watch this channel? I like their insights. This was a good video in detail for the top 14-15 WR's IMO:

I've been a fan of the trade backs, but only for lopsided rewards our way - and certainly not to miss the top 17 WR's. Walking out of this draft with WR 8-10 instead of 6-8 due to a trade is one thing....but dropping down to WR 17 is punishable by death. Sanders is a great addition if we can get him, but only after we get our WR.

Well again you may be right - but you may not. My point is there is no way to be sure because you don't know who is there at 33. If only 4WR have been drafted it is different than if 6 have been (AD Mitchell/McKonkey vs Pearsall/Troy Franklin) - that can be a huge difference. Also last year the deal was to move down to 41 and pick up next year's 3rd rounder....not bad. Plus Nix and Penix are more coveted than Levis from most accounts so likely to get a better offer. My point was alot of people are saying "yall are wrong we definitely should do this no matter what" when they have no context - contrary to the media's opinion, context matters ever time.

We don't know what is to offered for those 2 picks.....we don't know who is available to move up for....we don't know who is going to there at the end of Day 1. So nothing is at all certain - some of yall like to act like none of that matters and it is obvious what the right decision is....nothing is for sure at this point. Rice getting arrested probably impacts us....Diggs to the Texans probably impacts us via the Bills....what is Higgins gets traded before we pick...what is other trades happen in the 1st round....anything can still happen that affects all of it. The answer is we see what is available before we make decisions.

33 - trade down, the actual best WR available, the best CB/DE/LB who drops 39 - the actual best WR available if not at 33, the best CB/DE/LB if not 33 I know the question is to be more specifically who, but frankly the WR class outside of the top 4 is heavily debated - there are 10-15 guys on mocks right now between picks 20-60 all moving from top to bottom. I just need us to get this RIGHT for once. Legette, Worthy, AD, Franklin, Pearsall, Tez, McConkey, Coleman, Wilson all look like they could be #5 or #15 WR. And our 2nd biggest need is a top defended at all levels....so whichever is the BPA there I am good with it. I do not think Center is even in our top 5 positions of need - for me it is CB, WR, TE, DE, LB, C.

I would maybe offer him an extension now which includes restructuring this year's salary - improves the cap if we need it now and gets him extended and out of the way? Only if we needed the space honestly....which right looks like we might. Basically agreeing with you guys I guess

Worst OLine in the league paired with worst WR core in the league paired with below average TE receiving group paired with below average RB receivers paired with an outdated scheme paired with horrendous team culture. Our offense as a whole was probably worse than the top 25 in the NCAA last year....not exaggerating. It isn't excuses it is facts....data, results, eye test all confirm. Bryce could very well be the problem - but you would never know based on last season because he had offensively the worst situation I have ever heard of any quarterback walking into. Seriously look at the last 5-10 years of top 10 picked QB's and find me an equivalent....I would bet it is next to impossible. That said we have improved our OLine tremendously on paper, improved our WR room by 1 significant piece, hopefully improved our scheme and culture tremendously - TE, RB, and WR still need major work to even be average weapons in the passing game. If we hit well on a WR and TE we will know for sure who Bryce is gonna be and what his potential is. Is he Tua or is he prime Russ? No matter what we have to hit consistently in drafts going forward - in all aspects - that is what has held this team down for a decade or more.

I agree we are looking at 2 more WR - but the FA pool is still pretty stocked since we are talking about WR4/5. Could get away with drafting 1 and a FA

No that was pretty rare - this was the standard where the defense blew through the tissue paper OLine off the snap and the WR's still needed 8 seconds to find 2 inches of separation

I think this board needs to put more respect on Mock Draft Simulators - they are VERY accurate. Look at this one I did recently. Keep in mind every trade I made was offered to me and I did not have forced trades on. Clearly the algorithms are solid: I also picked up 16 more picks in next year's draft ranging from rounds 2-7.

Yeah cause this 75% of the snaps

And then he will disappear into the bushes like Homer Simpson again...like every season

His tape reminds me alot of Josh Downs (only much taller). I would not be mad at all at this pick....but hope we can get him at 44 after a trade down.

Fair enough - I was really just being a nerdy jerk. I agree given our history this much change is reasonable and should give some hope at this point. We are "Old" by normal standards, so if it didn't work there isn't much potential....those guys are who they are. If we were a huge percentage young guys it would be different. I am very optimistic for the next few years. Maybe more so depending on the draft.

Bottom line here is these 2 picks should either be WR and the Defensive BPA, or the same 2 picks including a trade down if someone gives a very nice deal to move up. We aren't desperate at any single position now thanks to a solid FA on paper, so we don't need to overpay for anyone.

Cannot overstate how big this comment is - if you draft a QB at 33 you should go ahead and cut BY. You would destroy his confidence instantly and possibly his career in Carolina or beyond. He would be useless to us even as a backup. He would most likely request a trade the very next day and sit out camp.

Perfect - however this graph pretty clearly shows a fairly weak positive correlation - meaning other influences are much more impactful that retention. I would bet the Correlation coefficient is no better than 0.2-0.3

Define strong correlation - what was the coefficient? Show the data. I would ask which term was considered the Input and which the Output? Did lack of success cause the turnover or did lack of success result after the turnover? How about turnover vs year 2? 3? 4? Which year was the strongest correlation? What other factors were included in the study? Let's see the details. Blanket, vague "result" without details holds no weight my friend.

I think this thread makes it clear that receivers 5-12 in this draft are extremely unclear and will be drafted between picks 33 and 50. I'm hoping some crazy, QB needy team wants to give us extra 2nd and/or 3rd round picks to move up and let us drop 8-12 spots. We still get one of these guys, use pick 39, and get much more value in rounds 2 & 3. Instead of one of these guys and an Edge/LB/CB we get that AND Ja'Tavion Sanders.....I mean....