Wes21

I think you nailed the difference in how Sheila handles things. She is not there to tell you that you need to draft X position and she's not there to tell you which exact player for X position she wants to draft. She is there for you to tell her your plan. She can then "be informed." And if there is something blatantly "off" about the plan, Chris Spielman and John Dorsey would handle the football side of it that Tepper tries to handle himself. When Brad Holmes was fired up and ready to make a big move up the draft board to get Penei Sewell, that wasn't something Sheila gave her opinion on. John Dorsey was the voice of reason that told him to be calm and let the draft come to him. And if Brad would have still wanted to trade up despite a disagreement with Dorsey, Sheila's attitude would have been something like "ultimately you are the one we put in charge to make these decisions. So its your call. I will support whatever you think is the best path forward." That's how she talks. Her dad didn't "meddle" when he owned the team, he just made bad decisions on who he put in charge. Her mom didn't meddle either.

Fans were skeptical about Sheila's reported "involvement," but that was because someone tried to pump her up during an interview. But he oversold it. Which made it sound like Sheila was making football decisions. She wasn't. And you are absolutely right about Sheila being smarter about how she goes about her business than Tepper. For anyone interested, here is the breakdown of the Lions power structure. Sheila - Owner of the team since 2019 (officially in 2020). She received ownership from her mother, Martha Firestone-Ford. Martha was owner after her husband, Willie Clay Ford, died. Willie was a bad owner but he was very loyal. When Willie died and Martha took over, she made an important move. During the 2015 season she appointed a man named Rod Wood to be Team President. Rod was not a football guy by any stretch. He was a highly trusted advisor who ran some of the Ford Family's other business and charitable interests. At Rod's intro press conference he said "I am not qualified to run any other team but this one." Lions fans were in a panic. It turns out he was right in the bad way we were thinking, but also a good way. Rod Wood - As Team President since 2015 and trusted family advisor for decades, Rod worked closely with Sheila when she took over the team. HOWEVER, they both recognized they lacked the football knowledge to properly steer the ship on their own. Rod's personality is very humble and he is very aware of his limitations. He also likes to play the background and let others get the glory. They decided to hire a "football guy" as a special advisor they could lean on. They agreed to hire Lions legend Chris Spielman to fill that role. Chris Spielman - Appointed by Sheila and Rod as a special advisor that reports directly to them on football matters. However, he was given no real authority to actually "do" anything. Chris' brother is Rick Spielman, former GM of the Vikings. Chris has said "I know football, but I am not qualified to be a general manager." That made him perfect for the role, because he would not be angling for the GM job or trying to be GM by proxy. So that puts (3) people at the top of the food chain where none of them want to play general manager. Chris played a critical role in using his connections to get a list of coaching and GM candidates to interview. He also joined the interview process with Rod and Sheila. A man named Mike Disner also joined the interviews. He works under Rod on the executive side of operations. John Dorsey - He fills a role as Senior Personnel Executive. He is an experienced NFL GM that has a dual role of helping the General Manager as well as advising Sheila, Rod and Chris. So if the top execs are doing something that is hindering the GM's ability to do his job, Dorsey is supposed to let them know. He was also put in place to assist first time GM Brad Holmes get the program up and running. Sheila has created a situation, by her own choice, that she is insulated by 2.5 people from making rash decisions as owner. Her decisions are discussed with Rod and Chris at a minimum. And for some discussions, Dorsey might be brought into the room. One "incident" that was brought up earlier in the thread is when Sheila asked why the Lions were not taking a wide receiver. Its important to understand the context. Prior to the draft Brad and Dan said they were going too prioritize getting a WR. That's what they told Sheila. After the first round, Brad and Dan finalized their targets they wanted at WR in the second round. At some point both of them realized if you look at how the draft was unfolding and their draft board, they would be reaching for a WR if they took one in the second round. They also noticed that some of the guys they liked seemed like they would be available in the third and fourth round. They took a DT in the second round and Sheila noticed they deviated from what they told her. I can't imagine how Tepper would have reacted. Brad took the time to explain to her why they took the guy they took, that the new plan was to go WR in the third or fourth round and showed her the list of guys they were targeting specifically. She quickly understood and didn't challenge them on it. The WR they ended up with was Amon-Ra St Brown. So to say what has already been said. Its easier to trust as an owner when the first time you might have doubted them ended up in a home run.

Not really. Sheila is around the team and up to speed on everything Dan and Brad are doing. But she doesn't make decisions or lead them down a particular road. One benefit of having her around is it keeps Dan and Brad on track when the live bullets are flying. They explain their draft plan ahead of time. If they deviate, she doesn't pull rank. She just mentions that they are doing something different than they said they would do. Then they will explain why they are deviating from the original plan. Another thing that happens alot is the coaches and staff give Sheila credit for things that had nothing to do with her. So it makes it seem like she is "doing" more than she actually is. BUT, one HUGE difference between Tepper and Sheila is that Sheila is willing to be patient and stay the course. Frank Reich started 1-10 and got fired. Dan Campbell started 0-10-1 and Sheila came out and publicly addressed the fans. She told them she was as frustrated as anybody, but there is a plan in place and the team will reward their patience. After winning only 3 games the first season, Dan started out 1-6 the following season. Tepper fired Matt Rhule after a 1-4 start. At 1-6 Sheila once again addressed the fans, preaching patience and allowing Dan and the staff time to show the fruits of their labor. The team caught fire and finished the season 8-2. The rest is history.

When creating metrics like "average time to pass," there is a bit of context that is needed. Some QBs hold the ball too long, but their average time to throw gets lowered because of a high number of quick screen type passes. My biggest knock on Bryce is that he holds the ball too long. He turns down throws that are in the natural structure of the play in favor of running around and "making something happen." That playing style is always going to make an offensive line look worse than it is. And mixing in a bunch of called quick screens will bring down the average time to pass.

I can't tell if this is serious or satire.

I will also say this year. I had my doubts about Bryce but I was really excited about the coaching staff that was assembled.

The first thing to always remember is that Head Coaches have BIG EGOs. Aspiring to the position means believing that YOU are the difference maker. The role of other people is to give you what you want. The Panthers job is one where you are going to be paid well and get what you want. All you have to do is win. And with a BIG EGO, why would you doubt YOU are going to win if given everything you want?

The last time the Detroit Lions won their division or won a playoff game was before the Panthers were an NFL team. The Tampa Bay Bucs left the Lions division in 2002 to join the NFC South. The Bucs have won the Lions division more recently than the Lions have won their division. The die hards never left, and they won't leave the Panthers. Die hard Lions fans learned to cope in different ways. Some found other things to do on Sunday's while still keeping up with the team. Some found a second team to follow. They didn't change teams, they just found a way to channel some of the gameday passion towards something else. In the end the way to cope is all the same. Stop living and dying on the results of the game each week. You didn't become a fan of the Panthers because they were winners. And if you did and you are still here...congrats...you graduated from bandwagon fan to die hard. It means riding out the lows and not letting it ruin your day. One last story: On September 26, 2021 the Detroit Lions were looking for their first win under the new coaching staff during a 1-9 streak for the franchise that would become 1-16-1. The Lions were up by 1 and it was the last snap of the game. The opponents kicker lined up for the longest field goal in NFL history. Some Lions fans turned the TV off and went about their day. Not because they were "too nervous to watch." But because they had seen this movie before. Others laughed and said "I knew it" as the ball went thru the uprights. For Lions fans it wasn't even the first time they had seen their team lose to the longest field goal in NFL history. As a die hard you are stuck for life. So its all about making it work the best you can. Learn to dance in the rain, or at least collect buckets of the rain to use later. Crying and smashing things every Sunday is going to get repetitive and is completely non-productive.

Looks like they were wrong. Oops.

That's hilarious! It reminds me that today is the anniversary of this meme. Things were looking really bleak for the Lions at the beginning of last season. Hang in there guys!

As a longtime Lions fan (since 1980s) that has been on the message boards since the late 90s I can give you some insight. Barry's Lions thru the 1990's - the team was exciting to watch and they made the playoffs (5) times in those (9) years. The team won a playoff game in 1991 and a division championship in 1993. Both are the last time the Lions have done either one of those things. Oddly enough Lions fans were "tired of being mediocre." Making the playoff just to get booted in the 1st round year after year was annoying. In the year 2000 the team was a field goal away from making the playoffs. Many Lions fans were rooting for the team to lose because they didn't stand a chance in the playoffs. So what was the point? 2000 thru 2008 (Matt Millen Error) - The fanbase was extremely optimistic thru the start and even middle of this time period. Fans knew it would take some time to purge old contracts and start over, but at least we were trying to do something other than play mediocre football. Fans wanted Mooch to be the coach but couldn't get him, so the team settled for his underling Marty Mornighwheg. Even though the team sucked in 2001 and 2002 there was still hope that the team was building something for Mooch. Finally, Mooch became available in 2003 and the fanbase went nuts. This was the dream scenario. That optimism carried fans thru 2003 and most of the 2004 season. The 2005 season is when fans gave up hope for Mooch and started getting louder about moving on from Millen as GM. Then Millen "did something different" by bringing in another new coach (Rod Marinelli) and backing him up with a big name offensive coordinator (Mike Martz). This bought optimism again thru 2006 and most of the 2007 season. If you ask Lions fans when they gave up on Coach Rod and the 2008 Lions, it was literally the first drive of the 2008 season. On the 3rd play of the game Falcons rookie QB Matt Ryan hit a 62 yard bomb for a TD. The game was 21-0 before the end of the 1st quarter and Lions fans got alot of things accomplished on their honey-do lists that season. Matt Millen was fired before the end of the season. 2009 thru 2013 - With a new GM (Martin Mayhew), new coach (Jim Schwartz) and new QB (Matt Stafford)...optimism was restored again! The team was "building something" in 2009 and 2010 that the fans believed in. Then in 2011 the team overachieved and had the fans living the dream of winning a playoff game. It didn't happen, but the team was scrappy and battled hard every game. The 2012 season was seen as a temporary speed bump until the team went on a long losing streak to end the 2013 season. The team had a losing record for 4 of the 5 seasons in this period but fans were optimistic and hopeful for most of it. 2014 thru 2017 - This was the most success the team had experienced since Barry's 90s teams but for whatever reason the optimism wasn't as high. It started with the fact that Jim Caldwell was brought in as the coach, and virtually noone was excited about it. Then the team had an 11-5 season and came within (1) win of taking the division in the final week of the season vs the Packers. Fans convinced themselves that the team was winning despite Jim Caldwell, not because of him. The team fired the GM in the middle of the 2015 season and brought in Bob Quinn to replicate "the Patriot Way." Fans were optimistic because it was inevitable that Caldwell would be fired and a new coach would take over. After the 2017 season the GM declared "9-7 isn't good enough" and fired Jim Caldwell. Optimism was restored. I should also mention that part of the optimism that happened during this time was because long time owner Willie Clay Ford died and his wife took over. WCF was always the boogyman that fans thought needed to be out of the picture for the team to have any success. 2018 thru 2020 - This is the darkest time that I can remember on the Lions message board. Fans were excited about bringing in "rocket scientist" Matt Patricia, but that soured quickly. Patricia is a generally unlikable guy in the way he goes about his business and talks down to reporters and fans. He also traded away some of the teams best players just so he could eliminate their voices from the locker room (Quandre Diggs, Golden Tate, Darius Slay). There were varying degrees of optimism thru the 2018 season and to begin the 2019 season. Midway thru the 2019 season is when fans gave up on Patricia and wanted him gone. He was clearly being outcoached, so it wasn't just fans hating the losing. As the team kept losing it became clear how unlikeable Matt Patricia was. He couldn't even get legit NFL coaches on his staff, he had to dip into the college ranks for guys to come coach for him. And the fact that noone from the Patriots staff came to coach with him was also a huge red flag. The end of the 2019 season and all thru the 2020 season is when the message board was an absolute cesspool and they lost alot of members. If you said a single positive thing about Matt Patricia back in 2018, the thread was bumped and ridiculed. If you said "let's wait and see, give the guy a chance" the thread was bumped and you were raked over the coals. It was bad. And that is when the policy came out that bumping old threads was not allowed. You could link to them or screenshot a particular post, but never a full bump. That brings us to the current situation. Fans were loosely optimistic in 2021 and ready to jump off the ship when the team started 1-6 in 2022. Winning definitely helps. But in all of my years following the Lions, the fans have always given a new coaching staff a pass on the first season. The hate I have seen for Frank Reich and his staff in their first year with a rookie QB is new to me. The Lions went 2-14 under the same circumstances in 2009 and the fans didn't blink.

I am a fan of 2 teams (to keep my sanity). The Detroit Lions are my other team, and I was born into that curse...I didn't choose that level of ineptitude of my own free will. The Lions are winning now so there is a certain "vibe" to the message board. But its important to remember that the Lions did not win a single game until Week 13 of the new regime. They finished the season 3-3 to gain a little optimism, then went 1-6 to start the next season. The message board was an absolute cesspool and the bumping of old threads was out of control. If you posted that you would "give the staff a chance" after losing their first game you were called out for being a homer and "part of the problem." The post showing the slightest bit of optimism or neutrality was bumped and ridiculed. The negative posters took over the board, and they infected others. All rational thought was gone. Negative posters like to think they are the voice of reason, but they are not. Especially during losing streaks. If someone posted that they knew the staff was terrible because they tied their left shoe before their right shoe, their ridiculous assessment was bumped and praised. "This guy was onto something, unlike you clueless homers. You deserve this team." To me a "positive only thread" isn't just about strawberries and rainbows. Its to keep people's sanity and have constructive conversation of a certain nature. Human nature is to throw the baby out with the bathwater. So how do you talk about the fact that X player is actually playing well? He may not be an impact player or leading to wins, but he's solid and doing things the right way. During a losing streak where negativity takes over the board, you can't have that conversation. It gets derailed immediately.

As someone who is also a Lions fan, I will tell you that having a perfectly imperfect season gets funnier over time. And heck, the current Lions coach was on that 0'fer team. So he learned every way that existed to play bad football. If you ever hear a Lions fan reference "2008 Preseason Champs," its a nod to the 0-16 team. The Lions were undefeated in preseason in the same year they didn't win a single game during the regular season. Speaking of which, I will also say that I will be patient with thise regime. Matt Patricia was one of the worst coaches of all time, and the GM (Bob Quinn) was decent but went to poo once Patricia started giving his input into player decisions. Guys like Darius Slay and Quandre Diggs (pro bowl defensive backs) were shipped off because Matt Patricia didn't want to deal with their personalities. The Patricia and Quinn led Lions went 5-11 before being fired. The next year when the new HC and new GM came onboard, the Lions didn't win a single game until December 5th. And for the season the new regime somehow lost even more games than the previous staff. Personally I am interested in seeing how the team finishes the season. Are they going to fight or are they going to lay down? I think Frank is a quality coach, but I am not sold on Fitterer. And as people have already pointed out, Tepper's involvement hurts the situation. It doesn't help.