onmyown

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

It was originally reported that the Texans want two young defensive stars. We have three to four--plus CMC who is a nice piece to dangle in a prospective trade, plus we have three firsts! You can downplay that all you like, but I doubt the Texans are. No, we don't have the extra first, but I'll be damned if we don't have more talent in regards to what the Texans need/want.

The no trade clause means Watson will have to be happy too. You trade away rookies Burns, Chinn and CMC on a cap strapped, 5-11 team and I’m not sure Watson is going to be on board.

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I agree that Miami makes the most sense, although I would caution that you might want to consult check the map on the "close to home." The distance between Gainesville, GA and Houston/Miami is about +2 hrs in the favor of Miami. That doesn't fit with that specific point.

I imagine it will ultimately come down to basically two factors, where Watson is willing to go and what is offered. If Watson absolutely does or doesn't want to go to "X" teams, they won't be in it. So whatever teams he is willing to accept being traded to, then it comes down to the bidding war. Maybe we make a bigger offer than the other suitors, maybe not?

We probably won't know until well after the trade is completed who bid what.

A 2 hour plane ride vs a 1 hour and 15 minute plane ride is not going to be the deciding factor (Charlotte vs. Miami). I wasn’t debating Houston, only the idea Watson wants to be close to home. They’re both ‘close’.

Panther could offer everything and Dolphins could offer almost everything and still come out ahead.

The only single, possible deciding factor here is Watson. Does he want so badly to play for the Panthers for non logical reasons only known to him to the point he’d refuse the Dolphins?

I don’t see any logic in that as much as fans really want to think so.

30 minutes ago, top dawg said:

You're discounting our young talented players who are extremely compelling as trade capital, and you're totally discounting Watson's wishes in the matter. And, honestly, both the Jets and the Dolphins would have to be willing to give up their picks (and Houston would have to be interested in Tua or Darnold).

No sorry, the Dolphins have a much better argument. See my post above. I’m not discounting what we have, only putting it in perspective and comparison. ‘Talented’ players. If they’re compelling as trade capital that means they’re NOT compelling for Watson only to the Texans.

The Texans do not have to be interested in Darnold or Tua because they’d likely get the 2 or 3 pick in the draft for a new QB. Not so with 8. That is much more appealing for a franchise that *should* be rebuilding.

You guys can keep fooling yourselves saying the Panthers have just as much to offer as the Jets or Dolphins but if you’re considering the circumstances of the no trade clause and that both the Texans AND Watson will have to be satisfied, the Panthers are not remotely in discussion with those two teams unless Watson himself has a urning desire to only play for the Panthers no matter the cost which I find laughable.

30 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I am confused about what proof that his article offers about us not being able to compete.

That article is just an article. But it insinuates the Dolphins are interested.

The common sense of not being able to compete comes from multiple angles:

 1. #3 in the draft so even if Texans don’t want Tua they can draft a qb. Not as easily doable with #8.
 

2. They have 2 firsts and 2 seconds. The draft capital that could be offered is obviously more by a large margin. Which leads me to...

3. They’re a 10-6 team and legitimately up and coming. QB is one of their few holes. It just makes sense. Even without their picks, if you plug in Watson they’d have a team that could easily rival the Bills and take the division. While I think Saleh is going to be great, that sentiment isn’t remotely true for the Jets or the Panthers.

4. Watson will actually play for a competitor AND be close to home.

5. And more of a side note - the Dolphins are known for diversity and minority hirings, clearly a plus for Watson.

6. Cap. Sure their cap spending is about on par with the Panthers. Well except their actually paying contributing players and have a whopping 500k dead money vs. the Panthers 23 million (and that is an old figure it’s much higher now). What does that mean? Probably that the Dolphins don’t really need a long term plan...they’re already almost there. Watson would get it done. On the other side - the Panthers could only offer what could and hopefully will be 2-3 years in the future because for this year and next they’re strapped. Will Watson be ok waiting? Not sure about that.

7. Oline. Sure the Dolphins ranked as one of the worst. But why? Because they heavily invested in it. High draft pick rookies. And although not a huge feat they have improved by doing so. That oline’s trajectory is going up and will bloom. Plus they actually are showing with the new regimen it’s a priority. The Panthers well...they’re struggling to sign their one good player due to cap, so they’ll tag him. They literally have no answers for all the other positions and depth. If they finally take the oline seriously they can hope to be where the Dolphins are in two years - high investment, and improvement in long term answers.

So yea I’m trying to find an angle we could compete with the Dolphins. Do you have one? Clemson maybe? We have his QB coach? We have better weapons...but not the cap to resign them. That’s a short list.

Ultimately the Panthers can only offer Watson a vision and Watson will have to be ok with that.
 

The Dolphins can offer evidence their vision is coming into fruition, and QB is the primary missing peice of the puzzle.

So yea. We can’t compete. We really can’t compete with the Jets either but maybe in the sense that they too will only have a vision to offer.

Panthers will never be able to compete with the Jets or Dolphins.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article249161075.html

19 minutes ago, BurnNChinn said:

Do u agree with this @AceBoogieabout Watson not wanting to come here because of way we treated Cam. Voth came out yesterday and told someone he would not turn down anything if he wanted out 

Dumb. Business was treated like business. Least that’s what the players say when they chase the money. Panthers never sniffed another QB for years letting Cam rehab on the bench...and paid him 60 million to do it then be cut after negotiate couldn’t be had and no one wanted to trade anything for him. Not sure what what kind of creepy butthurt fanboy poo you’re thinking of.

If the Panthers were smart they would’ve told Cam to suck it up, there’ll be no ‘commitment’ and sent him out as a lame duck QB and save TB money.

But I’m sure creepy fanboys would’ve said that was treating him bad too.

Anything other than a family friendly 4 year extension (probably worth at least 100 million) would have made fanboys mad TBH - unfortunately for Panther fans the team as a whole that would have been really fuging stupid.

1 hour ago, Verge said:

For what it is worth, the Texans are telling pretty much everyone that Watson is not available, but the internal price keeps rising. Teams know what the cost is. 3-4 1st rounders, or 2-3 1st rounders and a great young starter.

Lol

Let’s imagine this team for a second without their previous 3-4 first round picks and/or a top defensive player.

-Brown

-Burns

-DJ Moore

Minus a 4th first rounder:

-CMC

Throw in a good, young defensive player (not sure we even have 2 after the above lol)

-Chinn

Cam you imagine how god awful this team would be without all these players? I mean you trade all that for Watson so Samuel and Anderson can be his primary targets, Davis getting shut down in the backfield and Moton the only olineman IF he’s resigned?

Then the defense...Shaq thompson....and...maybe we can get injured Short back?

lol

Just isn’t worth it.

Meh I don’t really care if TB is the wb next season. We already know he isn’t the future but we have to take our lumps and should take the time to find it...just as almost all other teams have had to do with a bridge QB. This team won’t be competitive until 2023 anyways and won’t get interesting really until the year after that.

I know that’s a lot of patience, logic, and realistic expectations though so I can see it pissing off the huddle.

13 minutes ago, 4Corners said:

If you are still wearing baseball hats over the age of 25....yikes 

Wtf

rain snow sun...baseball caps are great

man I miss Reebok then the league got cheap and consumer Nike is trash

I remember the first year the switched and jerseys were ripped, patches coming off, falling apart on the field during games lol

gonna assume the NFL bitches them out because didn’t see the issue after that

High end Nike products are great but man their mass commercial poo is utter garbage

1 hour ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Teddy was ranked 12th in average time to throw. Basically barely faster than average. He was also the 12 most sacked QB, exactly what would be expected. He was sacked on 5.9% of his dropbacks which was 16th in the NFL, not far off from expectations. All indications are that our OL was pretty much average in terms of pass protection.

Yea if you’re including QBs like Dalton, Gropo, Tua, Fitzpatrick, and Haskins and Brandon Allen.

Maybe I should’ve said a min number of snaps and/for a ‘starting’ QB in which case he’s at the top of the list. Had those QBs played as many snaps I still feel like he’s at the top with all his  check downs.

Curious as to how many of those sacks came in quarters 3 and 4 because from watching the games, the Panthers 2020 oline played very well until half time when they all checked out. If we criticize TB for not closing out games the oline most certainly didn’t finish poo in 2020.

Those things will skew the oline ranking which is sad seeing as they were still ranked 18.

Given there were only 3-4 teams ranked that low to make the Super Bowl, or even deep playoffs in the last 20 years I’d say they are pretty dismal.

6 hours ago, Seltzer said:

Anybody who watched a Steelers game down the stretch knows Big Ben is washed, way more than Cam even.

Lol wut

not even close

Not quite how he was but still plays at a high level...

’way more than cam’...Ben is 10x the QB cam was are you on drugs or have you just started watching NFL football

and I hate Ben would never want him here

Man we are really going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel for an oline...if that’s the case who cares who the qb is?

Even with one of the quickest releases in the NFL TB got hurt and his oline ranked below average.

Now throw money at Samuel? And what about DJ and Anderson coming up? Plus all the money in CMC...

This just sounds bad for once in the past decade the Panthers need to throw quality money at some oline talent. Notice I said quality.

37 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It doesn't take being much of an NFL fan or pundit to know that winning in the NFL without an elite QB is extremely difficult. Tepper sees that, as well.

More to the point, for the people that want to build the team first and then try and find our QB.....well....those experiments aren't really going that well in the NFL. The problem is that you rarely can keep that core together long enough to intersect with the careers of the team you have built. 

The NFL salary cap isn't designed to keep dynasty teams and elite talent together. 

What? It’s the other way around. You build a team first. That’s the modern blueprint, to get your QB on a rookie contract with a good team to compete...Bills, Chiefs, Chargers, Cardinals, San Fran soon...chiefs built their team while they had their aging ‘bridge QB’ in Smith he was not their future and they knew that, they used him the same way we should use TB, Colts used Rivers, Patriots used Cam, Dolphins used Fitz, etc. that’s the blueprint.

The other way around gets you Cam and the Panthers, Watson with Texans, Luck and the Colts, Bengals and Burrow. It’s a great way to ruin a good QB and then live in cap hell after he’s paid.

Unless you’re a Brees, Brady or Rodgers...it’s hard to build a winning team and pay a long term franchise QB, the Seahawks are finding that out now and is the reason for Cowboys situation. 

So yea the modern blueprint for success does not start with a franchise QB without a good team in place first. Successful teams outside of HOF outliers (who also have good teams) the idea is to get some success with a qb while on rookie contract.

45 minutes ago, CarolinaBri021 said:

Yeah I'm seeing 8.6M and 14.5M saved but if I'm not mistaken the 14.5M is as a post-june cut. Has anyone seen if its been declared a post-june cut or did we just release him flat out today? If so, then can anyone make ANY sense as to why the hell we would do that and miss out on an extra $5-6$!?!

I’m wondering this as well...

54 minutes ago, Peon Awesome said:

Whoa slow down buddy. The Saints want to have a word with you. Hell the Eagles, Rams, Falcons, Chiefs, Packers or Steelers would all be over the frickin moon to swap cap space with the Panthers.

For the record, the Panthers are 15th in the NFL in cap space, technically slightly above average. Plus they have 2 obvious cuts in Weatherly and Short that frees up an extra $16 million even without designating either as a post-June 1st cut; those moves alone would jump them up to 8th, all else being equal. Let's rein back the hyperbole.

And all those teams are winning teams  except the Falcons and Eagles. And yea the Falcons are fuged cap wise. But we have the most dead money. And laughing at the Falcons feels like the the whole ‘at least we aren’t the Browns or Jets’ mantra we have enjoyed so much as a shitty franchise forever. Not to mention our cap space is going to players not even on the team lol. Big difference.

Lets not compare to the bottom of the barrel, our cap situation is poo for the next two years.

If it weren’t we would have resigned Moton last year, but we couldn’t...

58 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If you have contract terms he agrees with, sure.

If you don't, not so easy.

Well the Panthers once again fug themselves by ignoring oline. They have no starting LT, no LG, no RG and no RT signed lol. And an injured center with one year left...all the while with the worst cap situation in the NFL, and 5 wins.

Easily the worst oline situation in the NFL.

I have faith things will get better but if someone said they have faith we will be competitive with the Texans to become the new age Browns there wouldn’t be much a difference.

I don’t blame Moton for cashing out the Panthers has given him all the leverage in the world and then some.

Why not just sign him long term?

10 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

That’s patently false. We get a good QB and a couple OL we have a very legit shot at the playoffs. 

Actually that’s correct going by metrics and statistics for the past 20 years.

2 hours ago, 4Corners said:

Wow. At an impasse with Watson, totally neglecting him and his wishes. But JJ ask for a trade and he gets released in a couple minutes to help him out. Weird. 

Yea, their situations are identical.

3 hours ago, PhillyB said:

whether we're making bona fide offers is besides the point - fitts is testing the market and keeping his pulse on the going rate for qb starters and that's exactly what he should be doing.

marty is probably up in washington watching tape from butler county community college writing down the names of guards he can turn into safeties in the second round 

Yep exactly. This is doing your du diligence. I love it.

JR and Hurney prolly sat together writing long winded letters and snail mailing them

1 hour ago, WarHeel said:

Rational people have known it was over before it started. 

As well as it being an idiotic move for a team like the Panthers.

Good luck with the insurance company, you’ll need it

On 2/8/2021 at 9:38 PM, davos said:

Hard truth: No. 

yea I never got into it. Drawn out  medieval soap opera meh

Lol what is that like the 5th highest paid back up QB?

Hurney never ceases to amaze.