onmyown

26 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Get all the hog mollies you can.  Throw them into the fire to see who sticks.  Rinse and repeat until you have the best in the league. 

We’ve been throwing them into the fire for 5 years and all we have is burnt to a crisp marshmallows.

Might be time to take the oline seriously....soon as Hurney’s debt clears that is.

11 minutes ago, Monrowed said:

This is just so out of character for him and now being labeled as serially perverse with weird requests for the type of massages he wants. This reminds me of a beat down. The fact that he is getting one or two a day keeps him in the headlines. The way this is coming out is definitely a form of character assassination. 

It was also ‘out of character’ for Warren Moon, who also had the same character positives. He also had several domestic violent and sexual assault charges.

Doing things like community work and going to church is often used as some sort of veil for people when it shouldn’t be. People like to think these are ‘better’ people but in reality they have little significance.

His case also went criminal, the DA took it. Problem is, so often with these type of cases, and as I’ve been saying, when the victim all of a sudden refuses to cooperate, there really is no way to prosecute.

But that was one woman. We are now talking possibly 24. Huge difference. It will be interesting if the case is taken criminally, as I expect it to be. At that point it’s all about the criminal case, the civil will probably just sit on the back burner.

If the DA/jury deem it worthy to go criminal, the evidence is there, just a matter of the victims, all 24, cooperating.

As far as having the same attorney it is something to wonder about but it’s not all that common. When you have this many alleged victims, it benefits to have an overview of all the incidents for them, the jury, the court system and the lawyers. 

It’s kind of like the DuPont suit in the 90s and still going on today (though to a much lesser degree) massive payouts/judgements by the court, several victims, but really only one representing defense lawyer.

When you already have a good lawyer who is putting in the time to familiarize themselves with a complicated/high profile case, and have multiple other related - it’s not uncommon if you have a related case to go with them. This is also common with sex abuse cases.

Hiring an outside lawyer at that point would probably involve communication with Buzbee anyways. And how well that would go? Up to Buzbee. It’d be less efficient and messy. 

1 hour ago, YourLastThought said:

He was a very solid and capable backup. I don't see how he could ever be called a scrub?

Did well when teams ignored him.

Got shut down when they realized he was trying and paid attention. 

2 hours ago, Scott12345 said:

Has everybody this guy has defended been guilty?

Lol depends what what you mean

some people here think innocent until guilty is some sort of mindset to walk around with - it’s not

you don’t let your kid get near a neighbor with child sex charges that are pending

you don’t let serious domestic violent cases out of jail without an ankle bracelet just because they’re not ruled guilty yet

people with violent crimes are denied bond, yet aren’t guilty yet,

bonds wouldn’t even exist

hell...why is anyone in jail that hasn’t been ruled on yet?

...could you imagine a world where all this was true? It wouldn’t work.

court proceedings take years sometimes

Innocent until guilt simply refers to court proceedings and the right to a fair trial, it does not allow you the benefit of a dangerous situation of people not using their brains - that would be asinine

Some people are truly innocent and they’re the casualties of the system - but there is not a casualty free system

O.J. Has gone through the processes and was found innocent. O.J. Is also a murder.

1 hour ago, Tbe said:

You can have a civil case and a criminal case going at the same time.

Its not either or.

Right but you would not request a grand jury for something you strictly want to keep civil is my point. You would keep it a judge trial, because a civil judge cannot punish/convict someone through criminal case means. Also a judge can decide what evidence to consider and what not, where as a jury can be given all the evidence to make a decision.

My post meant a criminal trial, once charges are taken, are not about settlements etc. 

It is very tough to have a civil and criminal case pending because of self incrimination from either case to the other.

If this is taken criminally, that case usually is resolved first and decides the outcomes of the civil case.

So in theory my hunch is Buzbees wants this case taken criminally through a jury provided with all the evidence and will basically win a civil case based on the result of a criminal case. This seems to me a plan from a lawyer who has solid evidence for a criminal charge because the proof required for criminal charges is exponentially greater than a civil case.

However it is still possible to win a civil case with a failed criminal charge proceeding- but in the case of sexual assault I’d see that as rare.

Of course laws vary greatly with each states, things like cost of damages (not citing the measly $500 that was required to submit the charges), but also the politics of the courts/state as far as whether or not a lawyer will request a jury.

But in general circumstances and most states these are standard proceedings to involve criminal court and not keep it strictly civil.

2 minutes ago, Monrowed said:

Yes, I said the end game is cash settlements. 

Then why would they request a grand jury? Once the state of Texas or DA takes the case, it’s about criminal charges, not settlements.

And in order to get them to take the case, you need a jury. Which is what’s being requested.

Very bad route to go by the lawyer if the end game is cash settlements.

2 minutes ago, Monrowed said:

Ahhh, there is a key word there that depending on if it was a word that Buzbee used that kind of lets us know what the end game is...

”suing” as in looking for cash settlements.

Doesn’t appear to be all about cash settlements...

The lawyer is requesting a grand jury, which will privately hear the evidence decide if this goes criminal/indictment.

The end game could possibly be imprisonment. 

Of course if the don’t take it criminal and it stays civil - things could change.

Either Watson is a serial offender or this is the biggest high profile celebrity set up so far in the 21st century.
 

It would actually be really dumb.

Before wasting cap space paying someone through legal proceedings, a team should at least wait and see if the jury deems this as something that goes to criminal charges.

And no, the Panthers don’t have ‘inside info’ on 22 women and a jury that doesn’t exist yet lol.

22 women in counting, most recent case from this month...

Damn that’s a whole lot of people

Nah

Something happens and he gets on the list and/or suspended or worse...and you’re left with your dick in your hands and no draft for 3 years...that situation will 100% set you back close to a decade.

It just isn’t worth that kind of risk.

The people who want to make a move like this do it based off what they will believe will happen because of their personal opinion of the case, rather than what’s factually unknown.

That’s called emotions. And business decisions on emotions is dumb. 

9 minutes ago, Bronn said:

How do you know he didn't ask for glute work and then accidentally fart in her face when she was doing the requested work?

What you're taking out of the context says more about you than it does Deshaun Watson.

Come on man lol...how many people do you know accidentally let one loose and later say something like sorry for making you feel uncomfortable.

Most people don’t even say anything and at most, in the moment say sorry about that or excuse me.

This would be good. Not sure how expensive he’d be though.

8 minutes ago, TheRumGone said:

this lawyer is dumb as hell

Guess he missed the whole ‘confidential’ in bold letters at the top lol.

Although as someone who routines works with confidential information just putting it at the top has no bases, as is there is nothing about this letter, information or otherwise that would make it ‘confidential’. ‘The League’ are no law enforcement, a government entity, judges, or healthcare.

I am assuming that stamp is for internal employees/policy.

2 minutes ago, ImaginaryKev said:

On this board folks were poo pooing the idea of trading for him at all before any of this mess even happened. Now those same folks immediately believe this is a deal breaker and more reason not to pursue Watson at all. They're aren't fooling anyone at this point

I mean it sounds logical. Not only Panther fans, but if you read any other fan board who thought about getting Watson they were hesitant about their favorite team selling the future as well.

It’s an unprecedented trade for a QB this young and this successful. So no one really knows or has anything to compare it to, but the price is intimidating and I don’t see an issue with anyone hesitant for those reasons.

It is also logical to see it as a deal breaker. There are a plethora of things that could happen. More victims come forward. Could actually end up guilty. Could end up suspended. Or yea, absolutely nothing will come of it. But logic would say the situation is concerning. Not whether you thinks it’s true or not. The situation. The list goes on, I also don’t see any issue for hesitation for these reasons.

Valid concerns all around. What’s not logical is to say none of those drafts picks will matter anyway and Watson will be completely cleared of all these charges and nothing will come of them and anyone who says otherwise has an agenda. Trying to see something that isn’t there.

2 minutes ago, ImaginaryKev said:

It's not that folks actually believe this about Deshaun, it's that they seem to really want to believe it bc they value draft picks so much lol

 

Any chance people just want to wait and see if it’s legit or not?

5 minutes ago, SizzleBuzz said:

 

If Russell Wilson was the focus of Buzbee's efforts think reactions would be different?!?

Ehhh probably. Reactions are probably based on the timing. As I said it is suspicious. Wilson has a better relationship with his city and team. 
 

I think any high profile player who is disgruntled and has a public, dramatic beef with their franchise who all of a sudden has things like this conveniently come up at this time would get the some responses.

I would not classify Wilson in that category.

But there is a chance that despite the bad timing there isn’t anything related about it.

Bottom line is the details and outcome are more important and are what reactions should be based on more than the timing IMO.

I think it’s completely fine to say the timing is suspicious, but doesn’t mean I’ll completely disregard the situation. Just have to wait and see, and people absolutely hate that notion.

18 minutes ago, CanePantherHornet said:

Its sad how so many people have become obsessed with the idea of trading for Watson that they're throwing all integrity out the window and coming up with dumb conspiracy theories trying to defend him.

It’s quite strange. I remember when Rothlisburger caught his first charge, he was flamed everywhere as being a dumbass. And that was only when the first incident occurred where the victim bragged sleeping with him the day after it happened.

Second incident had more merit but was withdrawn immediately for some reason (probably money).

Maybe it’s the timing, and it is no doubt suspicious it’s just strange reading all these responses and Twitter replies, a ton of people dismissing the issue without process and ‘fully supporting Watson’ without waiting to see what happens. 

6 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

The thing that sucks about this for ALL parties is that its just going to end up his word vs her's. The truth will never come out, and career(s) will be destroyed.

Doubtful.

What will happen, is most likely the same thing with Rothlisburger, a settlement with no details and Watson will continue playing.

His reputation may be a bit tarnished with snarky comments but probably not on the same scale as Ben.

Unless either a victim or Watson is true about really not caring about money - the details will never come out or matter in court.

But in reality, that almost never happens.

Camp filler 

36 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Well then, I imagine you'll love this...

 

Lol

typical fuging Hurney

8 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

 yep and a mediocre oline with an elite qb will be better than mediocre oline with a crappy qb.  

Not according to the last 20 years of playoff contenders. Mediocre olines have made the super bowl only 3-4 times in two decades - all had a HOF qb.

You need both. 

Who is to say the new GM and coach cannot prioritize investing in quality prospects through the draft? They certainley can’t even try if they don’t have the picks.

You’re just assuming the new staff will continue run things like Hurney...and in which case nothing will help us.

22 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

right so nothing would change.

that’s the problem

38 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

we've had all our 1st round picks for years...why is our oline still so bad?

It’s not because we’ve had a bunch of first round oline busts.

18th ranked oline and 19th ranked defense in the league...

it’s a good starting point but there are a lot more reasons the Panthers lost than just QB play