onmyown

Probably in the minority but personally I don’t get the love for Lance. Don’t like Jones. I like Fields and Lawrence. I honestly don’t know what to think of Wilson but I have a feeling he will not be all that great.

So personally Lawrence and Fields are the best to me. Wilson is a wild card and Lance/Jones are an afterthought.

We will have a chance at a stud at 8 though, easily. Might not be a QB and I’m ok with that. Don’t want a LB or TE (as much as I love Pitts) though.

At that spot and with Fields, Lawrence and Wilson gone you have to take a top OT or DE no question IMO.

but we already have TB

Dunno...I think the Dolphins have more promise than anyone in the league. 
 

They just need some threats and a QB.

Unloke what some believe here the Panthers are not just a qb away.

Their oline was invested in and is slowly tuning around.

One good offensive weapon and a decent qb and they’ll compete with the Bills. And Tua still has time to prove something...that really just leaves some weapons.

Not a lot of holes to fill with a bazillion first rounders. If they fug this up someone is really fuging shut up over there.

Desperate enough to swap picks, then trade next year’s first, this year’s second and in some of their minds, all that plus 2023 first.

To move up two spots...lol

I have faith we’re not this stupid.

I believe the calculated value is like a second this year and maybe something like a third next year.

It’s the offseason and not much going on - so their discussion is good for some laughs:

https://finheaven.com/threads/what-do-you-want-from-panthers.365555/

There are three things super bowl contenders have in common since Panthers inception...in order (season stats, not post season)

1. Top defense

2. Top oline

3. Top qb

There are anomalies but what’s also interesting are QB stats from Super Bowls/playoffs. For the most part they’re atrocious. Perhaps because in these games both teams ‘play smart’ for the majority of the game.

The only success if 1 and 2 are missing is a HOF qb.

Brady skews a lot of these points but, usually 1 or 2 is a year by year thing. So 3 offers consistency. There is a reason it’s the ‘85 Bears or 00’ Ravens or 19’ 49ers. They simply don’t last. They’re harder to put together.

So while 1 and 2 are more in common, 3 has has the chance of consistency.

1 and 2 involve 17 players, not one. However, if you can put together a top defense and top oline you will be a contender even with average QB play. Numerous examples.

Great QB play and poor defense and oline will never make you competitive. It just doesn’t happen, there are no examples.

HOF does not equal Super Bowls. It’s just much much easier to do it with one.

A top defense is what equals Super Bowls. There is just absolutely no way around that. And oline. Both more than QB.

There are only 3-4 examples of a poor defense going to the SB and all examples include a HOF QB or Eli Manning going super sayan on the pats OR the defense someone became elite in the post season after being trash in the regular season.

Are people saying start Pj to tank?

or do people actually think there is more to see from him?

cause lol

Unless it’s a rookie or someone on the roster, I’d rather just go with TB and rollover the money and plan for next year. No point in spending money on something that most likely won’t work out.

There was nothing about last years putrid team that trails me they’re one off-season from being a legit playoff contender.

As long as the next move at QB isn’t another stupid one, we’ll be fine. People are so set on instant gratification, they’d rather just keep piling on the BS.

I’ll take a delayed, overdue smart move over a quick stupid move. Accept the fact the team isn’t ready anyways and hope for a smart move. 

Dunno. He just put his regimen in place. Still hasn’t replaced key pieces that were lost yet.

In a lot of ways this was year 1.

His biggest issue so far was holding onto Hurney.

He also should have cut ties with Ron earlier.

Laslty, probably should’ve started scoping out a QB earlier than he did.

Those are really the only things that he was slow on and held everything back as much as it did.

There were also retirements out of his control.

And cap issues, which are still a problem until next year and beyond. But that’s his fault keeping Hurney.

Needs more time. While clearly some huddlers have never in their life experiences growing plains and a learning curve, most people know that is what it appears to be at this point.

10 minutes ago, frankw said:

Baseless accusations of butthurt sounds like an emotional reaction to a simple perfomance based discussion. It is salary cap space that could have been utilized beefing up the offensive line and adding another starting corner at the least. The argument you are presenting does not jive with reality. If the Carolina Panthers were willing to spend the kind of money they did on a quarterback do you believe they did not have the expectation he would be even a slight improvement over Allen or a deteriorating Newton? If all they were seeking was a placeholder for a year or two they could have achieved that for significantly less investment and addressed other areas of need to be ready for the next quarterback when the time came to hand off the reigns. The present day dilemma is that simple.

You don’t exactly tell a competitive team you’re rolling with Kyle Allen so you can address the other parts of a team and and don’t care about competing for 3 years.

Yes they believed he’d be better than Cam and Allen - which by all metrics he was, at least last year. I never said it wasn’t a bad signing, I said it’s not this huge move that will set the franchise multiple years and it’s overblown which I believe it is.

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

He produced more in line with what he was paid last season but he will definitely not this season. He's an NFL backup caliber QB that is getting paid like a starter. That's a problem, no matter how you dice it.

It is a detrimental move, there is absolutely no question about it. It robs us of a large sum of cap money that could be either spent improving the team this season or rolled to next season to help us improve. 

At the time it seemed more in line with what the market perception was of him. In hindsight, it was a bad signing. It's hard to spin it any other way than that.

If the topic is bad contracts and hindsight, TB is not at the top of the list. 

In regards to rolling over, some cap wiz here will have to determine that - there are a lot of rules for that 4 year, 89% rule and the entire league has to spend a % rule. No idea if TB would’ve even mattered if someone crutches the math.

I agree though, if it were up to me I would’ve made Cam a lame duck and forced to play his last year personally. Why they didn’t do that, especially considering there were flames for doing him wrong anyways? Dunno. Respect maybe? Maybe Cam would have refused (plausible with his commitment comments)...but maybe not.

Who knows. But it is what it is.

38 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Eh....since he is a short term player, I would say his current salary holds the most weight. His cap figure has him the eighth highest paid(currently) in 2021. You really think he will produce at that level? It's the level he is getting paid.

No I don’t. But if that’s the bar then he was ranked 18th last year we have a definitive answer - he produced at that level. 

I just don’t think it’s as big a deal. So he signed a two year bridge wb contract. One year he played his worth. We suspect next year he will not play his worth. Then he is cut. 

Big deal? Lots of players with massive contracts don’t play for their worth for the entirety. And those could be 4, 5, 6 year contracts. This is two. It isn’t franchise crippling. 

He’s a bridge QB, was signed as such, and has played as such. Even if he isn’t worth 1 of his two year contract. In relation to players we’ve had and still have not being worth at least 50% of their contracts on longer deals it’s borderline relevant even getting mad over.

But people here act like it was this huge detrimental move this franchise made and it really wasn’t. I suspect it’s residual butthurt from the last QB.

5 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

His actual 2021 cap figure is #8 in the NFL. 

The argument is his contract as a whole.

45 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

He's the 8th best QB in the NFL?????? 

How does that work exactly?

His average price from the link that was quoted has him at #16.

5 hours ago, blueandblackattack said:

That's the pot calling the kettle black. Some of you really should learn how to use Google an check your facts first.

The floor price for a starting quarterback is around $20m according to Spotrac https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/quarterback/

Teddy ranks only 16th in average salary, and the only ones below him are Rothlisburger(after a huge restructuring), backups and qb's still under their rookie deal.

$20m might have been top 5 money 10 years ago, but thats just the floor these days. It's called inflation.

We took a calculated gamble because he was familiar with the system Brady was installing, and did well in it the year prior going 5-0. It didn't work. Life sucks, get over it.

You can cry in your beers all you want, but some of you armchair GM's need to check your facts first and start looking at the team long term.

Bridgewater has a voidable year after this year, and we're about 1 year away from being a complete team. But the bricks are being put in their place, and theres a light at the end of the tunnel.

I know it's hard to be patient when your definition of success is a Superbowl or we're trash, so you might wanna start lowering your expectations and get with the process, otherwise you're always gonna be disappointed.

Exactly. He’s paid where exactly he is ranked in starting QBs. We got what we paid for, where is the confusion? 

And it’s 40 million, not 60. Whenever someone starts off with completely ignoring the fact 33% of his money and contract is an option you know they’re being melodramatic.

Anyone thinking we’d get elite QB play for 20 million a year (half of what elite QBs get), on a two year deal is delusional.

Get over it, a failed QB attempt, but he was clearly a bridge in the first place. He has 1 year left.

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not on the Wilson train but acting like that coastal Carolina game shows anything is both silly and lazy analysis.

Wilson played pretty well that game but a lot of his teammates didn't. His receivers were dropping balls left and right.

CC was just about the best competition he played. He also had arguably the best olineman and oline program out of any competition he has played, and in college football in general.

His weapons though yea not the best.

I believe a lot of his mobility was allowed by a superior oline.

Around here (about 20 mins from BYU campus), it’s takes a lot of effort to find any BYU fan that thinks he’ll be a franchise QB. Even ones who love him/BYU. Of course, it’s a fans perspective.

Why would you waste more cap signing TBs twin to money, and eating TBs dead money and releasing TB instead of just just keeping TB?

Some of you hate TB so much you’re not thinking clearly. It would be a dumb move. Mariota isn’t going to win anything. Just dumb.

26 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Get all the hog mollies you can.  Throw them into the fire to see who sticks.  Rinse and repeat until you have the best in the league. 

We’ve been throwing them into the fire for 5 years and all we have is burnt to a crisp marshmallows.

Might be time to take the oline seriously....soon as Hurney’s debt clears that is.

11 minutes ago, Monrowed said:

This is just so out of character for him and now being labeled as serially perverse with weird requests for the type of massages he wants. This reminds me of a beat down. The fact that he is getting one or two a day keeps him in the headlines. The way this is coming out is definitely a form of character assassination. 

It was also ‘out of character’ for Warren Moon, who also had the same character positives. He also had several domestic violent and sexual assault charges.

Doing things like community work and going to church is often used as some sort of veil for people when it shouldn’t be. People like to think these are ‘better’ people but in reality they have little significance.

His case also went criminal, the DA took it. Problem is, so often with these type of cases, and as I’ve been saying, when the victim all of a sudden refuses to cooperate, there really is no way to prosecute.

But that was one woman. We are now talking possibly 24. Huge difference. It will be interesting if the case is taken criminally, as I expect it to be. At that point it’s all about the criminal case, the civil will probably just sit on the back burner.

If the DA/jury deem it worthy to go criminal, the evidence is there, just a matter of the victims, all 24, cooperating.

As far as having the same attorney it is something to wonder about but it’s not all that common. When you have this many alleged victims, it benefits to have an overview of all the incidents for them, the jury, the court system and the lawyers. 

It’s kind of like the DuPont suit in the 90s and still going on today (though to a much lesser degree) massive payouts/judgements by the court, several victims, but really only one representing defense lawyer.

When you already have a good lawyer who is putting in the time to familiarize themselves with a complicated/high profile case, and have multiple other related - it’s not uncommon if you have a related case to go with them. This is also common with sex abuse cases.

Hiring an outside lawyer at that point would probably involve communication with Buzbee anyways. And how well that would go? Up to Buzbee. It’d be less efficient and messy. 

1 hour ago, YourLastThought said:

He was a very solid and capable backup. I don't see how he could ever be called a scrub?

Did well when teams ignored him.

Got shut down when they realized he was trying and paid attention. 

2 hours ago, Scott12345 said:

Has everybody this guy has defended been guilty?

Lol depends what what you mean

some people here think innocent until guilty is some sort of mindset to walk around with - it’s not

you don’t let your kid get near a neighbor with child sex charges that are pending

you don’t let serious domestic violent cases out of jail without an ankle bracelet just because they’re not ruled guilty yet

people with violent crimes are denied bond, yet aren’t guilty yet,

bonds wouldn’t even exist

hell...why is anyone in jail that hasn’t been ruled on yet?

...could you imagine a world where all this was true? It wouldn’t work.

court proceedings take years sometimes

Innocent until guilt simply refers to court proceedings and the right to a fair trial, it does not allow you the benefit of a dangerous situation of people not using their brains - that would be asinine

Some people are truly innocent and they’re the casualties of the system - but there is not a casualty free system

O.J. Has gone through the processes and was found innocent. O.J. Is also a murder.

1 hour ago, Tbe said:

You can have a civil case and a criminal case going at the same time.

Its not either or.

Right but you would not request a grand jury for something you strictly want to keep civil is my point. You would keep it a judge trial, because a civil judge cannot punish/convict someone through criminal case means. Also a judge can decide what evidence to consider and what not, where as a jury can be given all the evidence to make a decision.

My post meant a criminal trial, once charges are taken, are not about settlements etc. 

It is very tough to have a civil and criminal case pending because of self incrimination from either case to the other.

If this is taken criminally, that case usually is resolved first and decides the outcomes of the civil case.

So in theory my hunch is Buzbees wants this case taken criminally through a jury provided with all the evidence and will basically win a civil case based on the result of a criminal case. This seems to me a plan from a lawyer who has solid evidence for a criminal charge because the proof required for criminal charges is exponentially greater than a civil case.

However it is still possible to win a civil case with a failed criminal charge proceeding- but in the case of sexual assault I’d see that as rare.

Of course laws vary greatly with each states, things like cost of damages (not citing the measly $500 that was required to submit the charges), but also the politics of the courts/state as far as whether or not a lawyer will request a jury.

But in general circumstances and most states these are standard proceedings to involve criminal court and not keep it strictly civil.

2 minutes ago, Monrowed said:

Yes, I said the end game is cash settlements. 

Then why would they request a grand jury? Once the state of Texas or DA takes the case, it’s about criminal charges, not settlements.

And in order to get them to take the case, you need a jury. Which is what’s being requested.

Very bad route to go by the lawyer if the end game is cash settlements.

2 minutes ago, Monrowed said:

Ahhh, there is a key word there that depending on if it was a word that Buzbee used that kind of lets us know what the end game is...

”suing” as in looking for cash settlements.

Doesn’t appear to be all about cash settlements...

The lawyer is requesting a grand jury, which will privately hear the evidence decide if this goes criminal/indictment.

The end game could possibly be imprisonment. 

Of course if the don’t take it criminal and it stays civil - things could change.

Either Watson is a serial offender or this is the biggest high profile celebrity set up so far in the 21st century.
 

It would actually be really dumb.

Before wasting cap space paying someone through legal proceedings, a team should at least wait and see if the jury deems this as something that goes to criminal charges.

And no, the Panthers don’t have ‘inside info’ on 22 women and a jury that doesn’t exist yet lol.