Proudiddy

Not talking up Howell. Just pointing out what I've read. As I said, I was going to be excited with whoever we picked from the group that was left on Day 2, outside of maybe Ridder, who I liked in college but just feel he doesn't have an NFL arm. I really was warming up to Corral over the others in the last week or so before the draft. Smh... it has nothing to do with allegiance or alma mater (in my case) for me. I obviously pull for my guys, but once it's time to go pro, thats a whole new and different level... If they can be great pros, I want them on our team. And if they can't and a guy from State (Hello, Ickey!) or Duke can, then come on aboard! I was simply stating what I had read from various scouting reports and the deep ball was the biggest concern for me between the two. But, many have shared info in this thread that has greatly alleviated the latest concern, and thats why I posted it... for discussion. I don't claim Howell will be good or bad in the pros. I was more just surprised that he went from a possible first pick overall after 2020 to a 5th rounder after 2021. But again, don't get me wrong, even before this thread, I was and am excited for Corral. The stuff I've gleaned from what other have shared here with breakdowns and such has me less concerned and even more excited now. I love the pick, and really, I loved it when we made it because leading up to the home stretch before the draft the more I read up on and watched of Corral, I really started feeling like he may be the best of the group. I figured all the top 3 tackles would be gone off the board at 6 and we could trade back and pick him up in the late first or second. The fact we got Ickey at 6 and Corral in the 3rd is still unbelievable.

Agreed, but that's why I said Sam has to go regardless.

Foles is a good guy and I think would be a fantastic locker room presence. But would i want any part of him on the field? Playing? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Don't know if you got to see him much the last couple of years since the Superbowl win, but he has looked horrible. He is immobile, slow to average release, and he can't get out of harm's way even with adequate protection. Sam should be cut regardless. He will not ever be more than what he has shown he is. Period. But Foles is not the guy to come in and take his spot.

I think if the price is right, is is very likely, as I think one of those guys is Sam's replacement. I'm starting to wonder if Sam makes it to the final 53. If we need a vet to mentor/place hold until Corral is ready, I don't even trust Sam to do that. I think we're holding out, as I think the Browns are eventually going to have to release Mayfield outright.

I like NotSoAngryScout's take there. That's how I view it. As I have mentioned numerous times, even the pro evaluators have demonstrated they aren't great at hitting on QBs in the draft... last I checked, at least when it came to the first round, where obviously a lot more is at stake if you miss, they are at like a sub-50% hit rate. That is horrible considering the time and resources that go into the process that we don't have access to. So, I think it is entirely possible a confluence of factors colluded to cause these guys to "fall." But as he said, we'll see who is right. Also would like to point out, again, it wasn't just media that was hyping up Howell after 2020. They hype was legit, and some of that has to be attributed to the personnel guys openly praising prospects, be it to the media or within personnel circles. So again, for him to go from a possible #1 overall to a 5th round pick based off one season... I'm gonna cite that subpar hit rate I mentioned above again. It makes no sense that the guy is unanimously loved based off one season, and then is a borderline NFL talent the next that drops to the 5th round. Sounds like talent evaluators are just a fickle bunch who can also be easily influenced. That, and I also think we are seeing a shift in positional value where the impact prospects could make from other positions is viewed as more of a priority when you have so many QBs from this class that had question marks for one reason or another. These guys know in the past, plenty of guys got overdrafts because of the positional value of QBs, and if you miss on a first or second rounder that is billed as the future, you likely lose your job. Not as likely to lose it if a WR doesn't pan out but you snagged a quality starting QB in the 3rd, 4th, or 5th.

But I'm NGL, and again, as an alum, I have vested interest in the Heels' success, but I can see that... I dont think having a laid back attitude in interviews should have much, if any bearing on how I feel about a prospect, and likely has little to do with their on-field disposition... but, watching him in 2020, it wasn't evident because they were having success and didn't encounter much adversity. But, watching last season, I was bothered by his lack of fire at times. His leadership did not show up in games, IMO. He seemed very passive... now, there are guys that can win that way - leading with their play rather than their voice, but when you watch Corral, his leadership immediately jumps off the screen and he is fiery. It feels like guys would take a bullet for him, and he would do the same for them. It makes a difference, imo.

We've had this discussion about numerous players over the years, but same height and weight doesn't always translate when it comes to durability for various reasons... but Lamar's build looks a lot more durable than Corral's. They might weigh the same, but they wear it a lot differently... also, even though Corral is no doubt athletic, he isn't the slippery, jitterbug fast type of elusive that Lamar is that helps him avoid a lot of big hits. Corral's slighter frame is and was my biggest concern about him since I first watched him in college, the deep ball stuff is secondary. If his stature measurements weren't official, I wouldn't believe them.

I know. My point was the dink and dunk is meaningless if you have zero ability to throw an accurate deep ball and the defense knows this, which has been our problem for almost 5 years now. There's no point and baiting them down if you can't beat them over the top when the chance presents itself. Having the threat keeps defenses honest, and we haven't been able to do that.

I think it really came down to the size. Just my guess. It's still crazy because as I mentioned, going into last season he was projected as the top QB of the class and possibly a #1 overall pick... that's a huge fall based off one season. But, it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out because as the stats have beared out, even the professional talent evaluators aren't all that great at finding and hitting on QBs. Maybe all these 3rd round and lower drafted guys prove them all wrong this time around? At least that's what I'm hoping.

I don't mean to overstate my concerns, because I actually think they're coachable and even as-is, not horrible. All things considered, I without a doubt think coming in, he's the best rookie QB in our franchise history after Cam. Now there's a big gap between Cam and Corral, but Cam was a generational talent. There's a lot of Corral that reminds me of Jake, in a good way. There's a lot to be excited about.

Was excited because I know he has been a multi-time pro bowler and all-pro, but damn... I did not know he was 34 now. Wow! Still excited though, because even at 34, he will get us way more than The Human Fair Catch did all last season. Great pickup this late.

Agreed. And that is what is really carrying me through overwhelmingly excited about how everything played out with our draft. You can't beat drafting a guy in the 3rd that you potentially would've taken at 6 overall and had as the number one QB in the draft, at the most important position in football. Again, I am super excited about Corral, and as you said, trust McAdoo'a evaluations of QBs - he has a great track record when it comes to that. So I will trust it. Just voicing the thing that concerns me just from the eye test in watching both Corral and Howell. Not saying Matt can't or doesn't make the deep throws... it's can he do it consistently.

I like it judging off the ranking McAdoo had on previous QB classes and how they panned out accordingly. But, as I pointed out in my thread, I'm concerned, yet interested in seeing how they coach him up on the aspects of the deep passing game to complement all of the underneath stuff.

Same. And I dont know if I like it or not.

Eww @ 4. It worked for Favre, but anyone that wears it for us, I just think of John Kasay. I dont want my QB reminding me of John Kasay, with all due respect to John.

Don't get me wrong, I was going to be excited about the potential to develop any one of the guys that were available in the draft, outside of probably Pickett. But, really, where we picked and what was available at the time, it really comes down to Corral versus Howell. And again, to be clear, I was going to be excited about developing either... but, the one thing that bothers me most about picking Corral over Howell is that ever since the team ran Cam into the ground and injured his shoulder, we have struggled the most with the deep ball. And sure, teams can run functional offenses without it, but they never teach their full potential without it, imo. If you can't take the top off of a defense and make them respect your ability to do so, it shrinks the field and makes the defense have to work a lot less. It simplifies things for them to take away what you want to do. Look at the best offense in the league, and the among the things they do best is stretch the field... Now, back to Corral and Howell. One of the biggest things that stood out to me about Howell was all of the various scouting reports I read on him emphasized one of his greatest strengths is his deep ball. Many said he was the best deep ball passer in this draft. I also read he tended to struggle with his accuracy in the short and intermediate the more anticipation the throws required... on the flipside, I have read repeatedly that Corral is wildly erratic with his deep ball passing. Each guy has their strengths that excite you, and their weaknesses that scare you. I love Corral's guts, grit, his lightning fast release, his creativity with his athleticism and legs to evade defenders and make plays as a runner, the zip on some of his throws, and he seems to be one of those contagious leaders that teammates just love. His injury history and frame scare the poo out of me, and the inaccuracy issues on deep throws just doesn't sit well with me at all either. With Howell, I also love his guts and grit, his arm, his ability to make plays as a runner as well (although not as impressive as Corral's), and obviously his deep ball accuracy. He can and does literally make all of the throws. And as a fellow Tar Heel, he has the going for him... and regardless of how anyone feels with personal favorites or allegiances, it is still absolutely shocking that a guy who coming into 2021 was viewed as a Heisman favorite and was projecting to be a possible #1 overall pick, and at the very least the top QB of the class, lost multiple NFL playmakers from his offense and had to be the entire offense for UNC in 2021, has a tough year and slides all the way to the 5th round. That is just unbelievable. I honestly don't see how he slipped that far, and outside of his smaller stature, I don't really see the potential negatives as a passer that I see with Corral. As a player, if you ignore his lack of height, he looks like the superior pure passer. Now, back to the concerns... I get that McAdoo runs a more WCO and wants a good balance with the run game. But the thing that troubles me with this plan, which is essentially what we proclaimed we were trying to do under Brady. Now, with the incredible improvements we've made on the OL, that system may actually function now... but, people like pointing to McAdoo's success with GB and NY to a lesser degree... in both of those instances, he had a QB who could throw it deep, with Rodgers obviously being one of, if not the best in the league at it. If Corral can't effectively provide that threat, I worry about the ceiling that places on our offense, because eventually it puts us right back where we've been the last 3+ seasons. I'm just not a fan of the dink and dunk garbage, because eventually the defenses compression the field and we've seen how ugly it can get when your QB can't threaten them downfield - like Darnold's entire game played without a first down. So, all that being said, to me, the QB being able to throw it downfield accurately is one of the most important, if not THE most important aspect of an elite offense. All of the other stuff must be effective, but is all for naught if you can't stretch the field and stress the defense with your multiplicity. So, the fact that to this point, this issue has been one of the biggest areas Corral has struggled with is a definite concern for me. Don't get me wrong, this isn't intended to be a "negative nancy" post. I'm excited about Corral. I'm just concerned about the deep ball passing, especially when juxtaposed with what Howell offered as a passer had we chose him at that pick. I hope we can coach him up and get that part of his game consistent and legitimate as a threat on any given play.

Ahh yes! Pete Prickso still begging for attention.

Not sure how he or BC fit into the equation now, but we've discussed BC quite a bit this offseason... I, and many, project BC will kick into LG as the starter now with the addition of Ickey. And I know we also just drafted Mays, and have Corbett starting on the right, but it seems Brown has gotten lost or forgotten in the shuffle. I think a lot of where he falls is dependent on whether Campen thinks he's a mean enough SOB, but I was impressed in what little we saw of him last season. So, at the very least, even if he ends up latching on as a backup with a year of experience and development under his belt, our weakest position group for years may have just flipped to one of the NFL's best units in one offseason. It'll be interesting to see what his role ends up being this coming season with all of the moves we have made... I think it's possible he could push BC for snaps at LG too. Great job, Fitt.

Agreed, but all of the vibes we're getting out of the building indicate Rhule's say isn't as final, nor powerful, as it once was.

Yeah, cant be mad at it. Quality depth as a rookie, versatile, has played all 5 spots on the line... judging off his build and experience, I also wonder if he is an insurance plan for Bozeman after this season? Regardless, versatile utility guy. Good pick.

I trust Panthro. He has shared many things over the years well before they happened. That, and John Ellis also reported last night or this morning that Corral was the #1 QB on our board. This is BS.

I'm thinking DB or TE at our last pick.

Now. It didn't look like that his first couple of years as a pro.

My immediate reaction is this is a slightly more physical and imposing Reddick clone. Another great pick.

Keep a lookout for Dallis Flowers. Fits the Fitt corner profile... between now and UDFA.