Proudiddy

Moton might be playing hurt, but he's so just playing for a check at this point. As are a lot of our guys. They're in a hole they don't know how to get out of... and the guy that's supposed to be showing them the light at the surface just keeps throwing more dirt on them.

It definitely is. Which I alluded to in my post... guys learn to turn their "competitor" off, because once they see the coaches are inept, it's their only way to cope with being stuck here. It sucks... and the longer he's here, the more of that it creates and it spreads.

Ahh yes! But point remains... not many guys who have a shot to get 1 of only 32 jobs in the world withdraw their name from consideration unless something is really off.

I actually decided to deep-dive into it with a several paragraph tirade, but no lie... hearing the ping-pong in the background and the laughable amateurish, organizational breakdown powerpoint slide that Philly pointed out were my first two impressions from this thread. And in all seriousness, I think the sound of them playing ping-pong and laughing while Moton stumbles and yammers a whole lot of nothing in his response really stirred up something deep in me... nothing says IDGAF more than that clip. Not saying guys can't have fun, but I know as a competitor, when i lost, i took it to heart. I wouldnt have been hanging around playing table tennis. I'd be watching film, i'd be studying my mistakes, etc... Initially, seeing the clip and hearing all that, I laughed, but then it took me right back to that feeling of that cloud hanging over us in 2002. Difference is, it's been three years of this poo... it's gonna be really, really hard to clean this up.

Well, again, this staff was assembled as the the Island of Misfit Coaches. No one that had other viable options would come here (no offense to Campen and Wilks), and again, even ones that were already employed and under contract here left for better options - some for lateral moves and some for even lesser options - just to get away from Rhule and his sinking ship. None of these guys are here because of fit or a willingness to work for Rhule, and none are here because Rhule wanted them. It's the perfect formula for the trainwreck we see every Sunday.

Really disappointed to hear Moton's response, but it's what I expected and it is reflective of what I have speculated is going on - and that's a team leader/captain. What I speculated is that players aren't bucking back or speaking out because they're comfortable. And that's why I, and many other Panther lifers, are lamenting to much about the damage Rhule is doing... Remember the lull they talked about that was in the locker room when we went from Fox to Rivera? And remember the even more heavy and evident ghosts that hovered in and around the team when we hired Fox after Siefert? I remember reading specifically about the culture around the team when Fox came on as HC. The feel I got from the pieces I read back then was it was the team's culture when he arrived was almost like someone died, except it was everyday... the team was down, morale was bottomed out, and guys really were just going through the motions. Fox came in and made some early declarations about what was going to be expected and it was pretty clear a lot of guys weren't going to makeit through the transition because the culture was going to be drastically different. Rivera had a less dramatic transition taking over after Fox, as his was more a results-based, experience-rooted example form of quiet leadership, but still a noticeable transition to make as the lame duck year from Fox and the acrimony that carried over was palpable. But really, going back to Fox's intro here, it was well documented that it was an intensive, almost jarring jolt of energy when he came in that shook the team. Why? Because guys had gotten comfortable. They had got comfortable doing the minimum. They got comfortable not being accountable. They got comfortable taking shortcuts and not facing consequences. They got comfortable making mistakes. They got comfortable because they lost hope, so they acclimated and adapted to what was accepted rather than chasing expectations or goals. I look at it as doing what's accepted versus what is expected. I can tell you, as a coach what I expect, but if I start accepting less, you will always give me just enough but not more. And that brings me to my last point, they got comfortable losing. It's a natural byproduct of going through the motions. If I'm naturally competitive, as these guys are, and I'm now locked in a 5 year contract, and i see i'm stuck with Coach Hov for the forseeable future, knowing there is no hope to turn it around, my brain is gonna shift into autopilot to spare my pride and ego of the pain I am sure to endure that comes with hopeless and helpless losing. It's a natural survival instinct that our brain goes to in order to minimize pain. It happens. And if it happens to enough guys, it becomes the norm. You forget how to win. You're OK with just doing your job and going home because hey, what can you alone do? We're seeing all the hallmarks of that now. Guys committing stupid penalties, inexcusable mental lapses, fumbles, batted passes, completely blowing assignments time after time after time, after time... and what happens? Usually nothing. Are there repercussion? Nope. So they just keep doing the same stuff. Clock in, clock out, go home. That's what we just heard from Moton. Rhule definitely didn't build a "culture" here, he simply destroyed the existing one... and it's gonna take a long time to fix it once he's gone, and a lot of guys, even good ones, axe gonna get the are because of it. He mentally broke them.

Oh, I had different expectations when I read the thread title. I thought you were asking should they stage a walkout and resign in protest. Yes. They should, and everyone else with any sense. Tepper is a loser and he's bringing everybody down with him.

This is what I just don't get. It doesn't just affect fan morale. The longer you keep him, you are destroying your reputation as well as the organization's. If you keep him, you are slowly chipping away at all of that to the point that players will not want to come here, at least not the ones you need or want. You become a laughingstock, where the only players or coaches willing to come are only because you outbid everyone else. We already reached that point this offseason on the coaching side where we assembled a staff of cast-offs, misfits, guys who wore out their welcome elsewhere, and guys who pretty much just can't get a job elsewhere. And look how many guys turned down our job offers or just straight up left the team in the offseason. Also, I like Fitt, but remember, I believe it was Peters? He was on our short list to interview for GM and he ended up withdrawing his name at the last minute. How often does that happen? And that was before we got to this point... it's very telling. Tepper's reputation precedes him, and it isn't good. Now add the last three seasons to that... he is killing off any appeal we had left to attract players and coaches, and he couldn't give a poo less. How did this guy become a billionaire? Seriously. He clearly has no awareness whatsoever. Either that, or as I said, he is doing it on purpose. It's the only explanation.

I also have predicted it won't be until we are eliminated from playoff contention, but this is literally rock bottom for me as a fan. Every week he is still here, my morale drops even further and it was already at zero to start the season. Everyone with a brain knows none of the issues are getting fixed with Rhule still here because he clearly doesn't know how to fix them. He doesn't know what to do or how to do it, or it would already be done. And yet, here we are, week after week, knowing with absolute certainty that there will not be any tangible, persistent change or improvement. This has been 3 straight years of utter and complete mediocrity, with absolutely no improvement... in fact, we have only seen signs of regression. And yet, Tepper continues to keep him here. fug your money. Do you hate us? Is that what it is? Did your mom leave your dad for someone from the Carolinas or something and this is like that time you bought your former boss' home and razed it? Is that what this is? Because if you cared anything about winning, you long would've moved on from this loser you continue to associate yourself with. Yet, you insist on keeping him, so there's got to be a personal reason motivating you to do so, knowing your reputation is being destroyed in the process... you've gotta be using him to exercise some kind of revenge on us as fans. Otherwise, it just makes no sense. What did we do to you? This just sucks, and that's not even near the appropriate term to describe this level of disappointment double dipped in depression.

Also, John Ellis pointed out on Twitter yesterday that Joe Brady was fired after Rhule said we needed to run more and then we had 8 attempts rushing. Same attempts as yesterday.

Been the same problem for 3 years. It doesn't matter. He can't fix it. He's proven that.

However it happened, it happened. And as far as I can remember, we don't know what play actually caused the injury, and I could be wrong, but I believe Lisfranc injuries are typically non-contact, at least all the ones I've been familiar with over the years - mostly basketball players. So, I definitely think it had more to do with his frame/durability than the line play, which was indeed horrible. And I don't claim to be an expert, but I like to think I am extremely knowledgeable and informed... I didnt state any level of familiarity or experience with the game to denigrate you or your knowledge or experience... I'm just saying, I'm confident in what I see and state. And I really wanted Corral to come and here and be the next Russell Wilson... but I just don't see it. I would love to be wrong, but I'm fairly confident I'm not. But again, we will see.

You can feel however you want about my "take" on Corral. I liked him, and I liked the pick. But, I also was extremely worried about his frame and how he would hold up in the pros, AND that's if he could actually play the position. Welp, seems like my biggest concern about him was validated already. I was ready to believe in him, and I wanted to... then he came in looking like a scared, panicked deer in headlights and that all changed. Sure, the lack of reps in camp hurt him. And honestly, I don't trust how any of these players look under Rhule or this staff. We have no idea how good any of these guys really are or aren't because they're playing for a college coach in a college system against pros. QB is especially hard to gauge under this staff, because it's the most visible both good and bad. That being said, I've played and watched enough football in my life that I'm confident that had Corral had anything for us to be excited about or confident in for him to build off of moving forward, we would've seen a glimmer of that... if even for a split second. But we didn't. He looked as bad as you possibly could, in all honesty. And sure, there is a slim, minute chance that he could turn it around and develop into something - but the chances are slim to none. Reps or no reps, he looked completely overwhelmed and outmatched. None of that amazing arm talent or athleticism evident. He looked bad. You can watch any preseason game any year and see rookie QBs who flash despite having little to no reps while playing with nobodies. That tells you if there is something translatable to build off of, and literally every other drafted QB looked better than Corral in the preseason despite their circumstance. We'll see what happens with a new coach and staff, but I was right about the durability stuff and I'm fairly certain I'm right about his future... but we'll see.

I honestly don't even care about the college rumors anymore because this fuging idiot is too stupid and stubborn to acknowledge he isn't cut out for the pros like all those who came before him snd gracefully bow out himself. The only way he is leaving is by being fired. And again, with the poo Tepper has witnessed take place, the fact the Rhule is still employed here is absolutely amazing... and realistically, he already knows this is a wasted season, so I don't see him firing him until the season is long done and over with. And rarely ever do I wish ill on anyone professionally when they leave here, especially a coach... in fact, usually I wish them thr best... but not in this case. Not with Rhule. I hope he is fuging horrible wherever he goes next, and I hope he brings the same amount of misery and depression to that team that he brought here. I hope that fanbase feels just as hopeless because this motherfuger should never coach again for anything but a teacher's salary.

Mahomes is ridiculous.

I've also accepted this. It would take a miracle to turn it over any quicker... we've got a stench all over us and in the building that is gonna take a long time to deodorize, thanks to Rhule.

Either way, he wasn't looking for the ball, so it was PI. It's incidental if they run into each other both playing the ball. It's the same thing every tike with him. He is never looking for the ball. He knows it's coming and he panics.

It wasn't incidental though because he was clearly beat. He also wrapped his arms around the WR as they were falling IIRC. It was clear PI.

Careful with a thread like this... you're gonna invite a lot of poos. I'm still cleaning up from last week.

We all know it. Yes, 99% of us have been saying it since last season... but again, it has become crystallized even more with each passing week. As I sat and tortured myself and watched Mayfield's postgame presser, it hit me again... Baker had how many coaches and OCs in Cleveland? Too many. And yet, he never once looked this inept. He never once looked this bad, especially not for this long. I've said it elsewhere and ad nauseam, but it is not coincidence that every single QB with any established history in the league that has come through here under Rhule, has played the worst football of their respective careers, and not by a little bit. All of them. Every single one of them. No exception. As I was watching Baker's presser I couldn't help but keep going back to this thought. Again, I didn't expect him to be an MVP, but I expected him, at worst, to be average. Maybe even slightly below average. As of today, for this season, I believe he is the worst starter in the league, and it's not even close. Do we really think that's who he is as a player? I don't. Do we really think Cam, at 6'5" with an established history and MVP stats, even with a little less arm, was bad enough to have 5+ balls batted at the LOS and go for 5 for 21 in Miami last season? Do we really think Darnold, for all his flaws and faults, is bad enough to go an entire game without converting a single first down? (For the record, don't actually ask me that last question ) The batted balls stuff, as I mentioned with Cam, was happening last season. And I even posed the same question then. We never saw that before from Cam. And he's not short and that has nothing to do with arm strength. And despite the loss of throwing distance, he even demonstrated his last year here before Rhule that he could play the short-medium game and read a defense. Batted balls has to do with timing and anticipation. It gets a lot easier to do when you know what's coming... so this isn't new. So again, I am forced to go back to the common denominator - Rhule. For all that has changed, it has all remained the same. I think he is pigeonholing the OC into concepts he wants run, and by extension, the offense. Teams and coaches going back to the beginning of last year and even the end of Rhule's first season, have repeatedly talked about how simple and college-like our offense was, and the tape shows it. Again, this isn't to excuse Baker... But i do know, he isnt this bad. Cam wasn't and isnt as bad as the Miami game looked. Nowhere near... This is simply to further illustrate how bad of a coach Rhule is, and nothing, especially not with the offense, is going to improve until he is gone.

I agree, but the whole team and culture has a stench now from Rhule that is gonna take a miraculous turnaround to get rid of.

I honestly think Brady was the only sacrificial lamb Rhule gets. They surrounded him with the only NFL-experienced staff that were willing to come aboard this Titanic (because they couldn't get jobs elsewhere ot wore out their welcome) as a last reprieve and literally nothing has changed. He's riding this out until the lights go out.

Like really. These are wild times. This dude had proven he shouldn't even be making any coaching or personnel-related decisions time and time again, but after another shitshow, on the field, he is inevitably asked should a change be made at QB. It is insane. He should not even be employed here, and we're still wanting to give him authority over what happens on the field? This isn't to excuse Baker. I've made it clear how I feel about his play... it/he utterly stinks. But, I'm just sharing this to further illustrate how fuged up of a position we are in. It feels like for the first time in a very long time that we're so dysfunctional, it doesn't matter what we change in the immediate. It is a hopeless endeavor. If we fire Rhule, I expect it's gonna take a full year or two, at minimum, to see any kind of progress as we dig ourselves out of the hole he has created. If we bench Baker, the next guy will come in and the offense will look just as shitty, just maybe with a few less batted balls. I think this is the pit that Bane was thrown into as a boy.

TBH, I was extremely surprised Corral looked as bad as he did in preseason. He looked completely overwhelmed and not like an NFL QB at all - not even a backup. Unless he improves and makes an incredible leap in his development during a year in which he is sitting out due to injury, which would be extremely unlikely, if not impossible, I honestly don't even see him sticking around the league. I know he's young and still a rookie, but you usually see something encouraging from guys that gives you something to build on... he showed absolutely nothing. I'm all for signing a guy grom another PS or someone who has previous starting experience at this point, but Corral would look even worse than Darnold or Baker has.

I still think he really just did it because Tepper begged him and they had a good working relationship previously. And at the time, it was rumored Tepper had to do that to bridge the divide that Rhule created by forcing Cam out when he got here; also it was rumored Tepper forced the move as a requirement for Rhule to keep his job at the time. But honestly, 1) Cam shouldn't have ever been released, and 2) Cam should never listen to anyone from this organization again, or at least not until Rhule is gone. He deserves so much better than this shitshow.