Proudiddy

Yes it sealed his fate. Again, I love Wilks as a man and a leader from everything I know of him, but there was far too many examples in that one game of the inherent problems that were to come had he been hired as the permanent HC. It was a painful lesson at the time, but it was better to be reminded of it now than for the next 2 or 3 years. It sucks for him because I personally do believe he is one of the 32 best men for the job as a HC in the NFL. But defensive-minded HCs are becoming a thing of the past. The only ones that stand a chance to evolve with the league are the ones that are super assertive, proactive, and aggressive. The only ones that fit that profile to me currently are Tomlin and Belichick a d even they are struggling without HOF QBs now. Offense is the present and the future. Period.

Can't wait for the NFL to announce that in addition to the picks we trade to NO for Payton that they'll be taking more as punishment for tampering with Payton before the negotiation period opened.

Pretty sure the compensation has already been agreed to if he already has an interview set up with us. One thing that does concern me about all of that is, I was listening to local radio here in Ralegih about it and they said Tepper's reputation around the league at this point is essentially a "mark." And I hadn't really thought about it, but I'd agree. They mentioned how if you become the object of his desire, he will pay/offer whatever it takes for his "shiny new toy." And that is essentially what he did with Rhule. It's what he's done with several mediocre QBs since jettisoning Cam at Rhule's dumbass direction... so, he has definitely earned the reputation. My concern is, the Payton thing may already be locked up because Payton, although interested in coaching for several teams, also wants to look out for his old friend and otganization, and get them the best compensation in the process... I wonder if Tepper, once again, like he did imwith Rhule and Darnold, outbid himself in a silent auction for Payton's services and that sealed it. Smh...

Again, I respect your personal stance, and feel the same way about my day to day life and the people I associate myself with. But the NFL? I just don't care anymore, man, because the NFL definitely doesn't. Being moral and operating with integrity won't help you win a Lombardi, and you don't get any bonus points for it when all is said and done.

I'm not gonna lie, personal hate aside, I am legit surprised by the amount of fans completely against him.

TBH, LG, I don't care anymore, man. I dont think anyone hated Payton with the Saints more than me. I despised him. Loathed him. But, seeing how the league has operated, especially since 2015, idgaf about integrity (within reason) anymore because they don't value it, honor it, and they don't give a poo about how you go about winning. To see how they allowed open season on a fuging MVP QB and face of the league because he didn't fit he profile they prefer and paired with the officiating during Cam's entire tenure, I just stopped caring about trying to do things the right way. In life? Sure, it matters, and that's how I aim to live my life. But pro sports? Especially the NFL? That poo doesn't matter. In fact, if I've learned anything, it actually pays to cheat and be dirtbags in the NFL. Now again, I say that within reason - cheating to win and playing like scumbags on the field is OK in my book at this point. The NFL has let numerous teams and coaches slide for years with this poo. But Snyder/Ross/McNair-type bullshit where the off the field poo is harming others? fug that. Payton fits in the first type of dirtbaggery, and that is fine by me, now. The NFL allows that stuff and the teams that play that way to excel, so may as well take advantage of it. Being the nice guys of the NFL has done nothing but gotten us abused by the teams that care about nothing but winning... so, as the old saying goes "if you can't beat them, join them." ***This is not intended as an endorsement of Payton, but if we hire him, I'm preparing to have to embrace it***

Again, I didn't really have a favorite either way. I just knew I wanted a OC or offensive-oriented coach with a track record of great playcalling/scheme design, and preferably a younger guy, but that's not a deal breaker. It's sounding more and more like we essentially already have a handshake agreement in place with Payton. I know officially they shouldn't have even negotiated or anything, but that's like believing tampering doesn't happen every offseason. Whatever the deal is, I just know we desperately need to get this one right this time. Probably the most important coaching hire in our history and it's going to determine a lot about Tepper if it hasn't been already.

I'm not trying to discount that Brees wasn't great, but just trying to really emphasize how much scheme matters in allowing guys to maximize their potential. No doubt, and 100% agree, Brees and Payton perfectly complemented each other. It was a perfect fit - Brees strengths and style of play, and Payton's scheme and system That being said, I also think if Brees ended up signing with the Dolphins that offseason instead of Payton and New Orleans, he does NOT end up becoming as great as he did. Nowhere close. I think he would've been a solid, occasional Pro Bowl guy here and there, but not record-setting, thorn in our side, HOFer. And again, that speaks to the brilliance of scheme and coaching. We got to see time and time again him out-think, outcoach, out maneuver, and outsmart the coaches we've had in place here... and do it all with that squinty-eyed, pursed lip face from the sideline that just made you wish you could punch him. But again, all that matters to me, is can he coach? While yes, Brees was the one constant, and a big one at that, that organization had a ton of turnover, tons of injuries, and constantly seemed strapped for resources - be it draft picks or cap space. And yet, every year, he was making chicken salad out of chicken poo. He beat our ass with backups and whole units decimated too many times to count. I look at my previous stated example of Shanahan. Those guys make their teams exceed expectations because their scheme and playcalling is just so perfect, or damn near close to it. I told someone the other day, I'm convinced Shanahan could sign one of us off the street and scheme up a gameplan to win, STILL. I also look at how bad Baker looked here versus how he looked with the Rams, especially the first game with no prep. It was night and day. And again, McVay is just flat out a great coach. I look at how many people questioned Daniel Jones since he's been in NY, and then look how he's playing now under Daboll. I look at how shitty Goff looked in Detroit before Johnson got there. I look at how Derek Carr went from MVP-caliber QB, to looking meh under McDaniels (who has proven time and time again that he is a shitty coach who has rode Brady and Belichick's coat tails to success by proxy). I know from the coaches we've had here and then looking at the impact, mastermind-level coaches around the league that the great coaches make their players better. They make the average guys good, the good guys great, and the great guys exceptional. The coaches we've had make their teams play to the expected level or below and that's it, and it's usually below. They make their players worse and usually in unfavorable positions where it's hard to succeed. So, do I think Payton could do that here? Absolutely. While there is no QB in place, I always trust an offensive-minded coach with a proven track record to find a way to make it work and to elevate the play of the players they have. And again, any one of the young OCs we're interested in could become one of those coaches as well, so I'm not against it. I just know Payton has done it as a HC and can do it again. I actually think coming into this situation isn't much different than when he got to NO and they had to find a QB. I also think Carr would be the perfect bridge for the situation. And again, I'm not saying this put all my eggs in the Payton basket. All things considered, it would be a lot more awesome to find the next great, young offensive mind in that same Payton, McVay, Shanahan mold. But, I know what Payton has done and can do. So, I'm liking our options regardless.

Just some perspective, but do you think Brees is a HOFer without Payton? Had he not went to New Orleans, you think he still becomes Drew Brees? I remember all of the no-names that came through there at various positions that Payton turned into productive NFL players who had no business being so. Look at Taysom Hill. He's a glorified The Golden Calf of Bristol, and yet, he has a role and a place on that team and parlayed it into a nice contract after coming in as a nobody. I remember all of the games we had idiots on this board celebrating the upcoming easy win because they were down entire units to injury, only for them to come out and whoop our ass with their 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th guys on the depth chart. That is coaching. That game where they were missing all of their starting receivers and all their backups and had to start practice squad guys - those guys were open the entire day. Payton schemed all of that. Yes, Brees executed it, but when a coach keeps getting that level of production regardless of the talent he's putting out there in any given week - it's the scheme. Look at what Shanahan is doing in SF. Same deal. He had Nick Mullens looking like a legit NFL starting QB, and I don't even know if he's in the league now. He took Jimmy G to a Super Bowl. He has Brock Purdy looking like the reincarnation of Tom Brady with athleticism. So, I disagree... Payton is not overrated at all. Coaches that can scheme for the players they have to maximize their efficiency and production are invaluable, and he has proven to be that guy time and time again. Now, I don't post this to vouch for him. I hate his guts as it currently stands, but I would absolutely love him as our coach because I know what he'll bring. That being said, Johnson, Steichen, Kafka, Dorsey, or any of these other young OCs could very well be just as good and I would be thrilled if we hired them and find that to be the case. I don't really have a favorite at this point, I just know the profile I want, and aside from age, Payton fits it. That doesn't mean I want him to be the hire, it's just saying I'm trying to keep a level head about the process. Regardless of who it is, I really hope we get it right, FINALLY, this time.

On one hand, it could just be due diligence. On the other, I just don't think you go to these lengths and this amount of interviews if you felt you already had the right HC in place. So, I'm assuming they're not gonna retain Wilks. Secondly, the magnitude of the interviews they're requesting, and the fact that Payton agreed to interview after Glazer said it wouldn't happen tells me this isn't just a smokescreen. They are trying to hit a home run.

Yup. And again, its where so much of the apathy comes from. That was the laziest, most uninspired coaching search and then hire I think I've ever seen in all of pro sports. Winning organizations just dont do that type of poo. PERIOD. All of us knew when they brought Clifford back what it was gonna be. Man, look at what Bol and Bamba look like now without his sorry ass impeding their progress and development. I was on this same board, and other Hornets boards 2 or 3 years ago saying we should trade for Bol because he wasnt getting burn and he could alleviate a lot of the problems that were ailing us with big that could shoot, space the floor, playmake, and protect the rim... And yet, many of us diehards knew when they brought Clifford back, who was he gonna give all of the big minutes to? Trusted, trash ass vet, Mason Plumlee. Not develop young guys who have shown promise, like Richards, or a young guy who needs the minutes to develop and could ultimately be a great "defend and get out and run" big in a guy like Kai. Nope, we're gonna pound all of your hopes and dreams into dust with ol' Plumlee. Spacing? What spacing? Clifford is fuging garbage. I have barely kept up with us or any basketball this year aside from the big headlines because draft night plus the Clifford rehire was just it for me. I took it as a clear signal that if they dont care, I'm not gonna care either. When they bring in a different coach, I'll be back investing my time, but until then, they can keep that poo. And sadly, again, I feel so bad for anyone who thinks we have any fuging chance of landing Victor. It aint happening.

Bro. Perspective. How old is Melo right now? Now how old were all the other guys you mentioned when they started being who they became? Kemba took YEARS to develop into the player he became, and I love me some Kemba. Melo is barely 20. 10 years ago, he would probably still be in college or just out of it. And he's already made all-star teams, logged multiple triple doubles as a teenager, and set a few records for stats achieved at the youngest age.= or damn near close to it (several of which he's at the top with Lebron). Again, he is a guy that other players want to play with. HE has the respect of some of the best in the league, and not just flash in the pan best, but some of the greatest talents of the last few generations like LeBron and Giannis. Ball is the franchise. He needs to be here and they need to bring in the pieces around him, especially if he wants them, to help him succeed. Otherwise, youre going to be right back on this forum in 5 years ruminating on how we pissed away one of the great NBA talents for nothing as he wins an NBA Championship with the Lakers or Knicks or Heat, because our fans took him for granted and our team fuged it up like they usually do. Relax.

Why tf was dude attempting to tackle anyway?

Derek Carr, draft a guy where we're comfortable taking one. Carr, rookie, Corral, and Darnold go into camp.

I actually thought about Kafka earlier in the season before i ever heard his name being mentioned, and I didn't even realize he had been with the Chiefs. I remember watching him in college and being impressed with his play... not in like a, "OMG, this guy is a superstar!" kind of way, but more like a "this guy is cerebral, tough, and a leader who makes something out of nothing" type way, and I wondered if it would translate to the pros. But I will say, sometimes I get a bit wary of OCs under former superstar OCs turned HCs, like Kafka under Daboll. Like how much of that playcalling and scheme is Kafka versus Daboll's? I just don't see OCs who become HCs going completely hands-off on what they know best and excel at.

Agree with your sentiment here, but I want to point out, as I pounded the table saying back in Gettleman's tenure here, he really won with Hurney's core. He supplemented it with some incredible bargain bin buys and that's what rounded the team out... and IMO, both your stars and the supporting cast are important for their own reasons, but the stars are more important because that's the bulk of your production. Hurney left Gettleman with Cam, Olsen, Smitty, Luke, TD, Norman, etc. That 2015 team doesn't sniff 7-9 without Cam. Period. All that being said, if we could've found a GM who had the proper balance between the two - Hurney's ability to hit on every first rounder with a huge impact while not being an asshole, and Gettleman's ability to find value for bottom dollar in FA. Ultimately, Gettleman hurt us a lot more than he helped us. Had he had the networking skills of Hurney or even Fitt and had swung a deal for some legit protection for Cam and not wasted a pick on KB's worthless fat ass, Cam is likely still playing at near-prime level right now, and our Superbowl window is still open. I often say it, but Gettleman shut our Superbowl window almost as quickly as it opened with his shrewd, disrespectful, and arrogant behavior while he was here, paired with his shitty drafting. But anyway... lol, I agree with you about not going off player's recommendations. There are personal relationships built in that locker room that may or may not cloud one's ability to judge what is actually best for a team moving forward. Also, worth noting, a lot of guys making those vouches right now may very well not be here in 6 months.

NGL, I actually thought Turner called a really good game while here. Norv and Scott had a post-shoulder injury Cam completing almost 70% of his passes in good rhythm prior to the infamous TJ Watt hit IIRC.

I got the vibe that his consideration of retirement was strictly because he is just tired of the coaching grind. Therefore, I don't think trading for him is an option, but it's a cool dream.

Damn @ Corbett. NGL, Mays has a chance to steal a job early.

But will Tepper give her the ol' 5 finger in the crack, exaggerated ass grab at the hiring presser this time around?

I dint have any problem calling a guy out or giving up on him when it's clear he isn't going to develop or just isn't good... I dont feel that way with TMJ at all. It's tough to talk about stats considering the dysfunction offensive system that he, and all the other offensive guys have played under for the last 2+ years. It's kind of hard to judge what he should or could have done, just as it is with all the other guys who have played in it. Darnold and Baker looked like they shouldn't even be in the league after playing in this offense under Rhule - both have looked very different and at least NFL-caliber since he was fired. I think that's important to consider in any evaluation of talent at this point. What we know is that TMJ has impressive physical skills and measureables. We also have seen evidence that he knows how to use them - his route running is VERY impressive for his size, and he also had begun to be featured as a high-point-ball guy once he emerged from the doghouse when Rhule was fired. Everyone who has been at TC the last two years has spoke glowingly of how he has performed there, so again, we know the ability is evident, and unlike a guy like Shi, who I was high on for the last two preseasons, TMJ has actually produced some big plays when it mattered, REPEATEDLY. So I'm holding onto hope for his future. I think he could take a huge leap next year... that doesn't mean we don't acquire any other talent at the position, but just that TMJ should definitely be in the fold going forward. I'm very hopeful and excited about what he can do with an extended opportunity.

I fell asleep at some point during the 2nd quarter. First time I've done so in many, many, many years... I saw BC's injury, but never heard an update. Then when I woke uo in the 4th, I heard the announcers say Corbett went out with a knee injury but i didnt see it.. I really hope neither is too serious.

Damn straight. If we trade up for Stroud, I wouldn't be upset. But if we we sit where we are or trade back for Richardson or Hooker, I will be much happier with that pick plus keeping our assets.

I really do love me some Wilks, and all things considered, what he did in the final 12 games is nothing short of amazing. I still want an OC, but I feel bad for even saying that. Wilks deserves to be a HC in the NFL, but I just don't want the conservative stuff we've endured for almost 30 years for another 3-5 years.

That was an unbelievably shitty play.