45catfan

This pandemic is hurting countries across the globe, we are hardly the only ones. America goes through some crisis roughly every decade. Some of which are worse than others, but the still cripples the country to some extent either through war, stock market woes, certain industry bubbles busting, inflation, pandemics, etc... A global pandemic is hardly our fault though and we are not shouldering the burden alone. Hopefully we get through this sooner rather than later and have a 10 year respite for before the next shoe drops.

A survey? I wonder how accurate a survey can be? Who did they survey, the health clinics or people themselves? Either way, that's a horrible measure of people who have the antibodies because they are probably going off of submitted tests results. As mentioned previously, if people don't know they are sick, why would they take a COVID-19 test? Typically they don't. The only way we will ever get a true measure is if the government sends out saliva kit and people return it like they would a census form in the mail and hopefully get 90%+ compliance. Anything less is sticking your finger in the wind and taking an educated guess, but a guess no less.

That was well before test kits were readily available too. I've seen a clinical study saying nearly 40% of COVID-19 patients were asymptomatic, but going back to the cruise ship article where a real life setting unfolded and 80% of the positive cases were asymptomatic???? Extrapolate that out and there's a sh!t-ton of people out there that never knew they even had it! The magical variable in this is how many people in America have likely got exposed to this virus and that will get you much closer to the true number of cases. Again, the 1.7 million confirmed cases is likely no where close the actual number of infected people considering asymptomatic folks range from 40%-80%.

My biggest take away from that article is that a helluva lot more than 1.7 million people in the U.S. have or had this virus.

No point to be made here, just an interesting read. Here is an excerpt: "Meanwhile, the second study, from Australian researchers, looked at 217 people on a cruise bound for Antarctica. The ship set sail in mid-March, just after the World Health Organization declared the coronavirus a pandemic. The first fever on board was reported eight days into the voyage. Over the following two weeks, eight people had to be evacuated from the ship because they fell ill. All of the 217 people who remained on board were tested for COVID-19. More than half (59 percent) tested positive, but just 19 percent of those patients had symptoms. The other 81 percent were symptom-free." Article on Asymptomatic People The reason I highlighted this section is these vacationers were confined to tight quarters with COVID-19 people and probably did not take immediate measures (quarantine, hand washing, social distancing, mask wearing etc...) to mitigate it as the WHO had just recently called it a pandemic. So this is more realistic than clinical studies because it occurred outside of a controlled setting without any preconceived notions or hypothesis. The article did not say if any of the medi-vaced patients or those that did show symptoms died from the disease.

That's the thing, people are much more likely to catch it from family than say spending 20 minutes in the grocery store. Folks tend to let their guard down around people they know well such as family members, not to mention spend longer periods of time with them. We were going to go to my in-laws over Mother's Day, but since they are getting up there in age, decided against it. Chatted on Zoom with them instead.

New York and New Jersey have green-lighted Pro teams to return to their facilities! This was a MAJOR hurdle. The League wasn't going to allow players back into facilities until all 32 teams were allowed by their respective state officials due to a perceived competitive advantage. I'm not sure how many other states still have restrictions on Pro facilities, but NY/NJ giving the go ahead is huge. I figured they would be one, if not the last, to do so. NY/NJ Pro Teams Permitted Back Into Facilities

True, which if you think of it that way would be even more terrorizing. So for someone scanning this article would see one city with death rates higher than other countries. I'm sure that would scare the absolute poo out of someone that didn't know that NYC's numbers were completely out of whack compared to the rest of America.

Why was NYC being compared to other countries? Why choose the grossly mismanaged epicenter of the American outbreak when clearly NYC was the statistical outlier in all the data. Why not places like Alaska, North Dakota, Oregon, Nebraska, South Carolina etc...? Simple, it was for maximum shock effect.

People dying at home were largely assumed to have COVID-19 if autopsy's were foregone. It was easier at the height of the pandemic in places like NYC just to code deaths COVID-19 and move on. Sure a sizable portion of them were deaths due to the virus, but not in every case.

Widespread fraud? Not completely sure how widespread it is, but it's happening. In the early weeks of the pandemic, positive cases were grossly under-reported (as you stated) and if there is fraud, laziness or just assumption of COVID-19 contributing to inflated deaths rates (as put on death certificates) with simple math...what does that do to the death rate? At this point, unless the number of positive cases skyrocket and the deaths stop, will the death rate shrink in any meaningful way. This is a bad pandemic, there's zero doubt about it, but these 4%-6% death rates are not realistic.

Georgia did go a bit fast, I won't deny that. However, folks in the healthcare field have said the actually death count is probably lower because the hospitals get a government subsidy for having treated a COVID patient that ultimately dies. To that end, some deaths have been coded COVID-19 just to get money that weren't even COVID related at all. A local hospital is being sued because they coded a heart attack victim COVID-19 to get the money and the family found out about it through a whistle blower at the hospital.

There has been reports of data manipulation everywhere. Claims are some places are inflating their data while others under-reporting.

To an extent that's the reason I said increasing case numbers (as long as not exponential growth) is not necessarily a bad thing and the death rate doesn't go on the uptick. True, we will not reach heard immunity, but when the next wave hits, the impact will be lessened as we know how to care for the most vulnerable and a sizable portion of the population has the antibodies. I've seen a figure as high as 36% of those infected were asymptomatic or had mild symptoms. We have no idea how many folks actually have had it, knew about it and didn't seek medical treatment or were unaware they had it at all. We know lock down didn't stop the spread of the virus, so then it honestly can't be stopped by relative isolation. If isolation isn't the answer, then we need to get on with life cautiously. No need to tank livelihoods and business any further for some lesser risk that's not really quantifiable. Again, proceed with caution, but we have to proceed.

Testing for sure, but the problem is until a vaccine is found and widely distributed there will two classes of people, folks that have been exposed and those who will be. Call me odd, but the number of confirmed cases increasing is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as the case numbers doesn't start to jump exponentially and as long as the daily death rates steadily declines. We are much more likely to build up antibodies from one another than waiting for an approved vaccine to become widely available. At best we are talking about next spring for a vaccine for the masses. Precautions are still necessary because complete lack of them will cause new hot spots and an exponential jump in cases, but no matter how cautious we are, new cases are still going to happen. As long as it is managed correctly the virus can make it's way through the population at a reduced/acceptable risk. There are studies showing the virus is mutating to stay viable as more and more people have the antibodies. The elderly and those with compromised immune system folks need to be the most cautious. If anyone needs to heed the safety precautions 100% to the letter of the advisories, it would those folks.

Two ideas here. The first being that a large amount of press the "muh freedoms" folks are getting happen to be in states that are dragging their feet on re-opening. Michigan and NC being two that are getting a lot of press. Lock down at this point is not going to stop the spread anymore than it already has. Lock down was to slow the spread and ultimately the goal was to keep the health care system from being overwhelmed in the initial wave. Secondly, the restrictions largely were let up prior to a major holiday. Cabin fever along with festivities...yeah, people are going to temporarily go buck wild. I suspect it will calm down some now that Memorial Day weekend has past and life is starting to get back to some degree of normalcy.

My bad, I actually low-balled the figure...it's actually closer to 40%, not 33%. New York alone is almost 1/3. TOTAL 1,668,257 508 98,068 30 New York 367,637 1,890 29,138 150 New Jersey 155,092 1,746 11,144 125

No, responsible, tiered re-openings as we are doing. A big difference managing the re-opening of states than a municipality that was negligent at the onset of the pandemic.

New York and New Jersey alone count for nearly 1/3 of the total National deaths. Take that into account and the rest of the country is not nearly as bad off as the it would seem. NYC botched its response horrendously from the beginning and the optics in the National death count as a result looks a lot more ominous than had NYC handled their part better.

I'm not the problem. The problem is folks too scared to go on with their lives and trying to influence others to be like-minded and if not, shame them. Should we have precautions? Absolutely! The point has past to attempt to bubble wrap a nation the size of America. Follow the safety protocols set forth by the local, state and federal governments and get on with everyday life as normally as possible. For those who chose not to, that's your choice, but the rest of us whose lives have been adversely affected by this shutdown choose to move on with our lives and not wait for some unknown, arbitrary date in the future where it's "safe" to leave your house.

And this is why I left the wonderful metropolis that has become the modern Charlotte. Increased taxes, traffic and crime. What's not to love about that?

Heard immunity was the only way to realistically get past this. Social distancing by largely confining everyone to their home was never going to work...not to the extent the government wanted us to believe. All that did was postpone people without the antibodies to get infected at a later time. The main goal of social distancing was so the hospital system would not get overwhelmed when this virus first broke out in America. It never did, not even in NYC. Hunkering down until a vaccine or a cure was found was never realistic. That doesn't mean we still don't do our part about sanitation to at least somewhat slow the spread with some of these measures, but being mindful about somewhat limiting the spread and trying to isolate the entire country are two separate things. Protect the most vulnerable the best we can (elderly and pre-existing conditions) and let the rest of us get on with our lives. A vaccine could be a year away before it's tested, approved, manufactured and widely available. A vaccine, BTW, is an exposure to a disease so the immune system can build up antibodies. Many people now already have the antibodies through casual exposure. This is how human existence got through previous pandemics prior to medical vaccines. To that end even modern times, most pandemics have largely run their course before a vaccine is developed. So the vaccine helps with future outbreaks in the years to come, but does nothing for the current outbreak.

There is speculation the bad 'flu' bug that went around in December was the first wave of COVID-19. It was probably here a month earlier than we realize and the deadly 'second wave' everyone is dreading is actually what we are working our way though now. If this is like previous pandemics, the first and third waves are milder in terms or deaths. There's hope by next spring after enduring the 3rd wave that most of the populace has created the antibodies to fight of the worst effects of this virus. The key is getting the economy back open, exposing folks in the summer while the virus is at it's weakest, getting 'herd' antibodies build up before winter arrives.

Dude, I literally was about to post the same article! A vaccine is the best hope for people too afraid to leave their house. No cure for the common cold, but now we need a cure for this? The Hong Kong flu is still around by the way, it's influenza 'A'.

Still amazed at the passes some folks get on this board given 99% of the other posters said similar things, a mod would be all over it.