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Everything posted by Peon Awesome
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Didn't see anyone post this article. But he's ranking teams based primarily on how well they did in free agency and the draft. For reference, his top 5 are Bucs, Patriots, Chargers, Ravens and WFT. Bottom 5: Raiders, Packers, Steelers, Texans and Falcons. The relevant Panthers section: 26. Carolina Panthers What went right: The Panthers continued to build carefully under Matt Rhule and new general manager Scott Fitterer, with one significant swap that we'll get to in a minute. I like the deals they made Haason Reddick and A.J. Bouye on defense, and they added a valuable piece at cornerback in No. 8 overall pick Jaycee Horn. The decision to give up on Teddy Bridgewater and make a run at Sam Darnold might end up being the most notable and important choice the Panthers made this offseason, but I generally liked the supplemental decisions Rhule & Co. made around their roster this offseason. What went wrong: I'm not thoroughly excited about the Darnold trade, which saw Carolina send three picks to the Jets for the former No. 3 overall pick, including a second-rounder in 2022. Perhaps more importantly, the Panthers also agreed to pick up Darnold's fifth-year option for 2023, which is now fully guaranteed at $18.6 million. Quarterbacks who start their career like Darnold rarely turn into effective passers in their second stops, and this franchise is making a significant bet that Darnold will be the exception. His lack of development and middling success even in clean pockets would worry me, and I think the most likely scenario is that Carolina is back in the quarterback market again in 2022. What they could have done differently: The other big bet the Panthers made this offseason was staying put in Round 1 of the draft and drafting Horn. The Bears sent pick Nos. 20 and 164 in the draft and their first- and fourth-rounders next year to the Giants to move up from No. 20 to No. 11 and draft Justin Fields, and even if the Panthers didn't want the Ohio State product, they presumably could have accepted a similar offer from the Bears and picked up a tantalizing first-rounder in the 2022 draft. Even if we value those future Bears picks as being the last picks in their respective rounds, the package on the whole was worth 33.5 points by the Chase Stuart value chart, which is right around the value of the No. 1 overall pick in a typical draft. More realistically, those picks will add up to being worth more than the top pick in a typical draft. Passing up that trade offer (or, at the very least, not successfully seeking out that sort of offer from a team like the Bears) implicitly values Horn as being worth something like the No. 1 overall pick, and cornerbacks taken in this range just do not have that sort of success rate or impact historically. You could make this same argument for the Lions at No. 7 or the Broncos at No. 9, but this was probably an opportunity the Panthers missed. What's left to do: Extend Taylor Moton. The 2017 second-rounder has developed into one of the best right tackles in football, and with the left tackle spot looking like a big question mark, the Panthers would do well to solidify one tackle spot for Darnold's sake. The Panthers franchised Moton for 2021 at $13.8 million, and a new deal for the 27-year-old should come in around four years and $62 million. My thoughts: 1. His only mention of the draft was us not trading down with the Bears as a mistake. That's fair but do we know for sure a similar offer was on the table? You'd think but it's also feasible Chicago saw the Patriots pick approaching and got desperate with their offer. And even if it was available to the Panthers, dropping from 8 to 20 is a move you make when you don't mind not being competitive this year. With our 2022 2nd rounder going to NYJ, we need to win some games now. And why no mention of all the times we did trade down? 2. He has Moton taking 4 years, $62 million. If so, why isn't he signed already? I'd do that yesterday.
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I don't think taking a flier on a no risk, minimum salary, end of roster player really warrants much criticism here. And more and more teams keep only 2 qbs on the roster. Having someone like him would be primarily for his TE and/or special teams contributions, with a lesser role as the emergency qb if we get horribly unlucky to have both our starter and backup qb injured in the same game and need someone to get us through to the end of that game. Then we'd sign another qb before the next game. So in that sense he doesn't even have to be better than either Grier or Walker. If he's more likely to meaningfully contribute to the team, he is worth a roster spot over 1 of them.
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The book isn't written on the draft but the Little pick is a huge stain particularly since he required both our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Miller could be good; he only played his rookie year with minimal time on the field and flashed at times so can't judge that yet. Daley if he can actually get healthy, would be tremendous value in the 6th. So best case scenario, we could look back and say it was a mixed bag with 1 complete stud in the 1st and a couple decent role players on day 3 which would be a far cry from an all time dud. On the other hand, if Daley and Miller get cut this year or never really make it on the field for one reason or another, then yeah, it's up there in terms of all time Panthers badness.
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Apparently some people think a JAG is anyone not in the Hall of Fame conversation
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From all the moves we've made, it's clear we decided we're going to give Darnold a real shot. We gave up a 2022 2nd, passed over Fields and Mac Jones at 8 and picked up Darnold's 5th year option. If they decided after all that to go all in on Watson and his pending legal issues, then I really don't know what this team is doing. Honestly, given the choice to pick Fields with a single 1st round pick and pay him $20ish million over 4 years (or around $45 million over 5 years), or give up 3 1st round picks and pay nearly $150 million over the next 5 years for Watson, give me Fields all day.
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Draft Analysis: "A massive value-destroying error"?
Peon Awesome replied to PanthersATL's topic in Carolina Panthers
Not quite. What's the going rate for a veteran cb1? Easily $15 million per season these days. Jalen Ramsey is making $20 million per year now. So you can't give credit for Fields being cheaper than Darnold and ignore the potential value of Horn over a veteran replacement. You obviously get more value with qb, but it's more like half what you're quoting. At the end of the day, the team didn't feel Fields was likely to be the answer or at the very least, Darnold was more likely to pan out than him. Time will tell if they were right. -
Teddy Opens up About Carolina (CBS)
Peon Awesome replied to CarolinaLivin's topic in Carolina Panthers
Teddy rightfully gets crap for coming up small time and time again. But why does everyone give Brady the benefit of the doubt? There's no question he needs to get better at situational playcalling. Is it really unfathomable that a coach, who's biggest prior experience was spending a single year as the passing game coordinator for a college team that was literally unchallenged the entire year, might not have fully developed his situational playcalling? And then he had to make the huge leap into the pros in the middle of a pandemic without anything close to a normal offseason to prepare? I think he'll do a lot better this year with more experience and hopefully a qb better equipped to execute plus a healthy CMC, but he left a lot to be desired in 2020. -
I don't see how drafting another G with our compensatory 6th would've made that much of a difference. We can only start 2 Gs. Between Miller, who was solid on the line last year, Daley, Elflein, Brown and Moore, not to mention Erving who has played a lot of snaps at G and Christensen, who some project to start at G before eventually kicking out to LT, where would Smith get an opportunity to bolster this line? I really think the disappointment about passing Smith is overblown. We already took one G who dropped for one reason or another in the 6th. We decided Brown was a better prospect than Smith. At a certain point throwing all your eggs in one basket has diminishing returns. There's a very real chance Smith wouldn't have survived to the 53. I completely agree that talk of not resigning Moton is foolish. Tackle is where we have our biggest question marks. I'm actually fine with the rest of the line. I suspect our plan is to utilize Scott and Erving as temporary plugs at LT (whoever wins the camp competition) while grooming Christensen to take over either before the end of the year or start of 2022. And if he isn't showing any potential to make the leap, we're back to figuring out a solution in the 2022 offseason. But hopefully he does.
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Moton isn't the type of player you gamble with. He's young, skilled, healthy and plays a key position. Even if we spend a couple million more than we want, the loss of Moton would be harder to recover from than whoever we might have signed for the $2 million or per year so we might be apart on in contract negotiations. Drafting Christensen doesn't suddenly make Moton expendable. And Erving has been a liability at tackle whenever he's been asked to start. He functions better as a swing tackle for depth. Our offensive line situation has been a major question mark for years. Resigning Moton gives us the opportunity to have a very solid outlook for the next few years if Christensen can grow into the LT role. And if he can't, then we will need Moton even more
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Our drafting strategy actually made a lot of sense. Most drafts have around 10-15 consensus elite prospects. And once you start approaching the 3rd round, player evaluations start to muddle together. The difference in perceived talent between a 4th and a 6th round pick is a lot less than the difference between the 10th pick and the 20th pick. So while we held onto our ultra valuable top 10 pick, we readily traded down in the later rounds to accumulate multiple picks where the difference in value is negligible. It's like trading a dime for 3 nickels.
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The same organization that cut Cam with only 1 year and roughly $20 million left on his contract after busting his ass for a year to get healthy, just so they could sign Teddy Bridgewater of all people, suddenly reveres him so much they make his number off limits?
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All aboard the Tommy Tremble bandwagon
Peon Awesome replied to Panther Believer's topic in Carolina Panthers
Honestly even if he isn't an elite receiver, does it really matter? There's only so many targets to go around between DJ, Robby, Marshall, David Moore, CMC and Dan Arnold. -
Lighten up guy. Do you have trouble picking up on jokes? I'm not grading picks based on interviews even if it was hilarious. But guess what? It doesn't even matter cause I'm still giving the pick a positive grade. You realize he was our comp 6th? One of the last picks in the 6th round. I'd venture to guess that over 80% of the players picked after him won't make their team's 53 man roster. At that point in the draft you can take one of the top 1 or 2 special teamers in the country or a guy with major question marks overlooked round after round by 31 other teams who has to compete with a half dozen NFL veterans at his position just to make the roster. We took a guy with a great chance to be a starter for years to come and save $1 million on our cap this year. And if the pick wasn't justifiable enough, Washington picked a long snapper 3 picks later.
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A pure blocking tight end does seem like poor value in the 3rd where you can find starter potential at more important positions like guard and wr. I've been able to reason it in a couple ways 1. He can help shore up our deficiencies on the offensive line with meaningful snaps as a rookie. Think of him as a part-time starter 6th O lineman. 2. We lost both Manhertz and Armah. He effectively takes the place of 2 starters in 1. 3. Many clamored for us to draft another lineman but at a certain point you can have too many bodies. We already signed Erving, Elflein, and Miller, still have Daley and Little, drafted Christenson and Brown and signed Moore as an UDFA. Some of those names will compete for time at tackle but all of them could or have been used at guard. Why not take a guy who will actually see the field and help the line than someone who'd compete for a backup spot with 4 others. 4. Short yardage situations were a major weakness in 2020. Drafting him was an effort to shore that up. 5. Ideally you take a guy like that in the 5th or later but he was 52nd on Daniel Jeremiah's board. If we really liked him, I'm not sure we could have counted on him being there even in the 4th. As far as the long snapper, I have no problems there. Getting a potential starter with a comp 6th (basically 7th), even special teams, is a win. And seeing as how a long snapper was drafted 3 picks later only sells it more.
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Keep in mind the following: 1. We let Douglas and Elder leave, both of whom had a fair amount of playing time last year. 2. Bouye is on a 1 year contract and is suspended for the first two games. 3. Donte has missed multiple games every year and is on the last year of his contract. 4. Melvin hasn't played since 2019 (he opted out last year) and before that had played for 3 different teams in 3 years. He's 31 years old and is on a cheap 1 year contract. 5. Stantley was a 7th round pick and Taylor is a 5th. Day 3 picks are usually developmental guys that you're not necessarily expecting to contribute a ton right away. Stantley got more time last year thanks to injuries and our lack of depth, but chances are, at least one of these guys is stashed on the practice squad this year and can get called up if injuries hit. Considering Pride and Stantley are the only two corners under contract beyond this year other than our two new draft picks, it's unlikely they're done. More likely they'll be relegated to roles they should have had last year (depth and developmental) but were thrust in above their heads because our secondary was so devoid of talent.
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Appreciate the analysis but I'm disappointed you didn't give the long snapper an A+. The video of him getting the call from Rhule was one of the highlights of our whole draft
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If you're WR5 or 6 on the team, it helps to bring something extra to the table (e.g. special teams ace, kick returner) because chances are you won't see the field on passing downs. Better Zylstra actually contribute on special teams than Bayless sit on the bench all the game. Maybe Bayless would do well on ST, I don't know. But I do think that will factor in. You can always stash Bayless on the practice squad and put him on the roster if we have multiple injuries.
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Round 6 (C) Thomas Fletcher - LS - Alabama
Peon Awesome replied to Jackofalltrades's topic in Carolina Panthers
When you have a dozen draft picks and only 53 spots, the chances a late round draft pick making the team isn't great. So why not take the best rookie long snapper and save $1 million on your cap? Honestly one of the soundest picks at that point of the draft. -
Round 2 - Carolina Panthers select LSU WR Terrace Marshall
Peon Awesome replied to Zod's topic in Carolina Panthers
Well one of the benefits of collecting a bunch of 3rd rooms picks is you can go BPA rather than focus on filling immediate needs. You still have a chance to do that in the 3rd. Pick makes sense. Good value at the end of the 2nd and sets us up to move on from Robby if his price is too high next year. -
Why couldn’t we trade down??
Peon Awesome replied to slumdogmillionaire's topic in Carolina Panthers
Can't see us being comfortable trading back to 20 when we only have 1st round grades on 15 players. Also, getting future 1sts is great and all but if you're foregoing an elite prospect for a 2nd tier one by dropping that far, kind of dampers your prospects this year which may not be optimal when you traded away your 2nd round pick in 2022. Would hate for that to be a high 2nd rounder. Gotta put yourself in a position to be semi-competitive this year. -
Round 1 - Carolina Panthers Select CB Jaycee Horn
Peon Awesome replied to Zod's topic in Carolina Panthers
Not exciting but if you think about it, it's the sensical pick. 1. Covers the biggest hole on our team 2. Chance of finding a competent day 1 starter at cb after the first round was not very good. 3. Get our choice of the top player at the position rather than whatever is leftover. 4. Our 2nd biggest need, tackle, has a ton of depth in this draft and we had just missed out on the 1 clear elite LT prospect with question marks about Slater being a better fit at guard. Much more likely we find a starter in the 2nd round and consider switching Moton to LT. 5. With Denver taking a cb and Dallas with a huge need at cb, if we really honed in on Horn, trading back probably wasn't going to work (not to mention, given how long we took to make the pick, I bet we tried but the offers were paltry). -
Guaranteed at a chance for Sewell or Fields... holy smokes!
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They just put a graphic that said the Jaguars have had 6 different starting qbs since 2018 and I thought "Wow that's terrible." Then I realized we had Cam, Heineke, Kyle Allen, Will Grier, Teddy B, and PJ Walker. Just in case it wasn't painfully obvious enough that we need our long term answer.
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How many week 1 starters could the Panthers get this weekend?
Peon Awesome replied to Zod's topic in Carolina Panthers
Unless we draft Fields, our 1st 2 picks should start on day 1, likely OT and CB in some order, although safety is possible in the 2nd (or Moehrig in the 1st wouldn't be crazy if we trade back with WFT). After that, it's a crap shoot. I'm not sure a guard in the 3rd or later is going to beat out Elflein, Miller and Daley and unless the TE is Kyle Pitts, I think Arnold is safe. You can find a decent coverage linebacker in later rounds so I wouldn't rule out a 4th round LB taking an outside spot and shifting Chinn mostly to safety. With 3 6 rounders, I'd also consider using one of those on a kicker if we really like one and creating competition with Slye l. Not a high priority but that late, no guarantees those picks even make the initial 53. -
Hmm so we save an extra $3 million and get a 6th round pick? Pretty solid. Better to get some value before the draft in case we draft Fields and the whole world knows we're not keeping Teddy and lose all trade leverage. That being said, it feels like Denver got a good deal. Get Teddy for $3 million by giving up a 6th round pick that's more likely than not to be out of the league in 3 years? Sure Teddy for $20 million is a tough pill to swallow but at $3 million he's a great bargain. Seems like one of those win win situations.