Peon Awesome

Really? You wouldn't care if we traded multiple picks to take Zach Wilson because it means "we tried"? I definitely care if we try and fail. Also your definition of "trying" must be very restrictive. It's arguable that very few teams have tried harder over the last 3 years to find a qb. We signed Teddy Bridgewater to the biggest free agent contract for a qb that year, traded multiple picks for Darnold in 2021, traded for Baker, and traded up in the 3rd to draft Corral. I mean, you could point to teams that really didn't try to upgrade qb like the Lions or even the Seahawks, although they managed to coax a career year out of Geno Smith. But it's pretty disingenuous to say the Panthers haven't tried just because they didn't trade a ransom to draft a first round qb last year especially when those qbs are looking pretty underwhelming for the most part.

I literally said I wasn't going to waste my time scrolling through pages of threads from a year and a half ago to post a bunch examples to make you happy. I figured me immediately finding a couple on the first page of threads in my search at least gave the hint they were easy enough to find. But if you don't remember or just weren't active enough on this thread to see that several people were pushing for us trade up for Zach Wilson and the examples I posted aren't enough to change your mind, I guess I'm just going to have to figure out how to go to sleep tonight knowing Mr. Krovvy isn't convinced.

I dont know how to quote tweet from other threads but copying and pasting from the 2nd link: Same. If we can’t get Watson for three firsts and a couple players, then I’d love to try to use two firsts (and a couple players if necessary) to move up for Wilson From the 3rd link: personally I feel like we should be all in for the #2 pick like we were 5 mins ago for Watson.. Whatever it takes ... How much are we willing to give up for #2 pick in the draft? Tough question but I’d be willing to trade #8, #39, future 1st for the number #2 pick

Did you not click on the links I posted and scroll through the first page where multiple people say they want us to trade up for him or do you have problems with basic reading comprehension?

I'm not going to spend hours researching this but if you were active on the Huddle at the time, plenty of people were in love with him. Just a quick search I found a few threads where it's discussed and if spending more of my Sunday doing this research for you was worth my time, I could find a half dozen more.

The irony of this thread is that Wilson was the 2nd overall pick and the same guy multiple posters were slamming the table for us to trade multiple 1sts to move up and draft. It's almost like sucking into the consensus #2 rookie qb prospect isn't necessarily a surefire strategy. And yet one too many posters are getting pissed we're not doing that.

That's game. No way this putrid Broncos offense is coming back from a 3 score deficit in one quarter.

For those pissed we didn't trade Burns and still think we should, the price is only going up from here.

Wow, actually a great play by Darnold with pressure coming. A Darnold meltdown could easily come at any moment but it's still much more fun to watch this than Baker getting every 3rd pass batted at the line

I thought the same thing at first, but now seeing the details of the contract, I can definitely understand him taking the offer. He's getting almost $40 million more to coach Nebraska. For the 8 years, that is nearly $5 million per year in new money. You could decide to sit on your ass for 4 years and then see if you can get a coaching gig after the Panthers money dries up, but how certain are you that teams are going to be clamoring for someone who hasn't coached in any capacity for 4 years and is 7 years removed from college? So it basically boils down to whether you're comfortable retiring at age 47 and living off your previous earnings for the rest of your life. Obviously that's easy to do, but if you love coaching and can make $40 million to do it, it's almost an easy decision. And that's not even mentioning the chance to erase the stink of your last putrid coaching performance.

If Darnold, playing arguably the best pass defense in the NFL with less than one week of reps with the 1st team offense, has a great game, I'll be legit impressed. Do I think it'll happen? No. But if it somehow does, the man deserves some props.

For all the hate about us committing $18.9 million on a 1 year extension for Darnold without seeing him play for us, it's nothing compared to the $250 million the Broncos gave Wilson before he had barely stepped foot in Denver.

Not the worst but plenty bad enough that it's laughable we'd actually risk losing a 4th instead of the 5th to keep starting him.

I understand the sentiment of the thread but it's disingenuous to post this and act like their record would be identical with or without Burns. They lost on a last second TD against Tampa. You really think Burns feasting on the outside next to Aaron Donald wouldn't have been the difference? The game probably wouldn't have been that close, let alone a loss. I still don't think the Rams would be that good so being upset at the trade is still plenty reasonable. But quoting their record sans Burns is not totally valid.

Trying to simplify these decision-making processes to such a rudimentary level is stupid. Don't massively reach for a qb you're not sold on over a player at another position that you have graded at the top of your list. But don't bypass a QB when you desperately need one if you have a top grade on them just because you have a better grade on someone else. Look at our 2022 draft. Is anyone upset we took Ekwonu over Pickett? Are the QB or bust brigade looking back and thinking that was a stupid decision? Probably not. If our rankings end up as 1. Anderson 2. Young 3. Stroud, and we get our pick of qb or Anderson, the QB is the no-brainer. The real issue is if we have the same rankings plus 34. Levis 44. Hooker or something like that and we're picking 3 with Young and Stroud taken 1 and 2, you should probably take Anderson in that situation. These are all hypothetical of course. If we love one of those other qbs and think he's top 10 material, that's different.

Baker needs to sit for one more game to keep the 4th round pick but I'm not super worried about it. Either Baker will look like himself and get benched for Sam or PJ when healthy, which is by far the most likely outcome. Or he plays lights out, leads us to the playoffs and we get a home playoff game. Even if he's ok, we probably go back to PJ when he's healthy under the premise that PJ never lost the starting job but just got injured.

It may be more like top 20 or so but look back at the last several drafts. The majority of the best pass rushers were taken near the top of the first round. Myles Garrett, Bosa brothers, Chubb, Burns, Parsons, Chase Young and now Hutchinson looking like the cream of the crop in his draft year. Similar to QB, you can find later round picks making big impacts on many teams but if you look at the overall number, there's a high bust rate outside of the 1st (and even within the 1st). I admittedly might have overstated it but unlike many positions like guard, safety, linebacker, corner, tight end and so on, it's more the exception rather than the rule that you're day 2-3 rookie pass rusher has hopes of being an impact starter.

The problem is that good pass rushers are one of the toughest players to find. It's rare to get one outside of the top 10 in the draft, and they almost never make it to free agency unless they've got other red flags, get old or have major injury concerns. It's like having a good qb. It's why teams with an above average qb pretty much have no choice but to pay them $45+ million per year now even though probably only 3 or 4 qbs are truly worth that. Did Arizona really want to give that much to Kyler Murray? Unfortunately you're stuck overpaying your good pass rushers. I'm honestly not opposed to trading Burns next year before the deadline if we get another great offer. But you're doing it at a risk that you probably won't replace him and may waste valuable picks trying. Gotta have a lot of faith on your gm/scouring department.

This whole thread is a moot point. If the Ravens don't sign him to an extension, they're going to apply the exclusive franchise tag. There's not going to be an option to give up 2 1st rounders for him. Don't be foolish.

Obviously the team won't pass on someone they have graded as a potential franchise qb just because they drafted Matt Corral. But there is a question of whether they'll feel pressed to draft someone they have a lower grade on if the top qbs aren't available out of sheer desperation. I mean if you were higher on Corral last year relative to the tier after Bryce and Stroud, what do you do? I'd guess they'd still draft someone just to increase the odds but if someone like Anderson is there, do you really pass on him to take a qb you don't have much confidence will pan out? Tough decisions. Hopefully we're drafting high enough it won't matter. Also for those saying Corral doesn't have a chance if we draft a qb in the 1st, there's at least precedence with Kirk Cousins and Robert Griffin. Long shot obviously and requires probably an injury to the 1st rounder but not impossible.

Let me help you see it in another light. The draft picks were for 2024 and 2025 picks. Bradley Chubb went for a 1st and 4th at the deadline on his 5th year option. You don't think we'd get close to 2 1sts next year if Burns doesn't make sense at that point? We'll still get a 2024 and 2025 1st, but this way we have a chance to see whether a promising rookie qb and a competent coaching staff can lead to a quick turnaround first. Trade Burns for a 2024 and 2025 pick now and you're pretty much accepting we're not competing till 2025. Also immediate impact pass rushers are rarely found outside of the top 10. For every Maxx Crosby there are 10 Yetur Gross Matos. There's a reason teams are offering so much for Burns. Now if we're in a full on rebuild and don't want to pay Burns like a premium pass rusher, fine, trade him next year. But I have no problem nixing a trade that doesn't help us for a couple years when we have Burns at a reasonable price through 2023.

Fields is a good example of why coaching matters. He was trending towards all time bust with Matt Nagy. I mean the way he played him was just laughably bad. Now he has a coaching staff that actually tries to scheme the offense around his skill set and he looks much better. But I don't lament not drafting him. He would've had his formative years with Rhule as his coach. He would've looked as bad as ever and we would all be looking ahead to Bryce or Stroud. Hopefully it'll work out with one of those 2 and a good coach.

Until we get final confirmation on the specifics of the offer, it's hard to fully criticize it. We've heard it was going to be two future 1sts rather than any in the upcoming draft. Then we hear Cam Akers was getting added, which is probably a net negative overall. Who know what else was included? Did the Rams ask us to give them one of our 2023 2nds, similar to the Khalik Mack trade? Or hell, maybe they wanted us to give 2nds in 2024 and 2025 so that we were just moving up 1 round in those drafts. These leaks may have had an agenda, otherwise why leak it? I'm sure there were hundreds of offers around the league and this was one of the only rejected ones publicized. Maybe the Panthers leaked it to try to get a team to give 2 1sts with fewer strings attached. Or maybe it really was just 2 1sts and Akers. It'd just be nice to get some official confirmation.

Honestly I think it's more a testament to how important coaching and front office is. The teams that pick towards the top tend to be poorer run teams at least at the time of the pick. It's rare that a rookie qb single handedly changes the fortunes of the team on his ability alone. Cam might be one of the few examples and even it took a couple years for our management to build a better team around him. Hurts is a great example. He was trending towards being a bust. Then they get a good coaching staff and make some shrewd moves, namely trading for AJ Brown and now he's an MVP candidate. Similar story with Tua. Meanwhile Trevor Lawrence was one of the best prospects to come out in 20 years and he's been below average by most every metric. If he spent his rookie year with Andy Reid instead of Urban Meyer, how much better would he be? You could definitely argue us getting the coaching hire right is more important than which QB we draft.

You also have to wonder why this is getting so much press. I feel like someone in the Panthers could be leaking this to up any last minute offers for Burns. Wouldn't shock me if we end up trading him after all, especially if anything gets added to the offer. If we get a haul, I wouldn't hate it. But we'd really have to hit big in the draft. This defense would have no pass rush as is minus Burns and a defense without a pass rush is no defense.