BrianS

If Bryce were throwing these interceptions on 18 yard patterns where he just hadn't learned how quickly NFL DB's close, no one would be complaining a bit. That's what NFL rookie QB's have to do. They have to learn the speed of the game. Our rookie isn't trying to make those plays. Forget about the separation argument. There is 9 inches difference between our receivers average separation and the NFL average. Throw the ball. His two pick six interceptions this week were throws within 3 yards of the LOS. Terrible. We want to blame the line, and there is some blame there. But some of that blame MUST fall on Bryce as well. Watch his footwork as he drops. He's is very, very lazy - slow - dropping back. Yes, his eyes are downfield, and that's great, but he takes FOREVER to set his feet to throw. What he sees isn't important if he isn't ready to throw it. Windows open and close very quickly. As a QB with an "average" arm footwork is even MORE important for BY. He's got to get set in order to maximize what arm he has.

Actually, bringing up Burrow brings up a great point. In Burrow's first two seasons, he was sacked on 7.3 and 8.9 percent of his dropbacks. Were people making excuses for Burrow because of his OL? No, that's silly. People WERE saying that if the Bengals don't get him some linemen he won't survive. But his performances were . . . well, Joe Burrow. Bryce is currently being sacked at a rate of 9.4 percent of his dropbacks. It's honestly not that different from what Burrow had when he came into the league. Look at Desmond Ridder if you want a comparison. He's being sacked at a rate of 9.4 percent of his dropbacks - just like Bryce. What's his status now? Oh, right. Benched in favor of former Panther Taylor Heinicke. Interestingly, with Heinicke at QB, the same line that was giving up sacks at a rate of 9.4 percent is now giving up sacks at a rate of 3.5 percent. What's the difference? Likely that Heinicke just processes faster than Ridder and gets the ball out. Can someone remind me again what Bryce's greatest strength was supposed to be? Bryce is our guy. He's got at least another year. I want him to succeed. But the reality is that it doesn't currently look good. Hopefully, instead of making excuses someone on Mint Street is making a plan.

The comparison is a little unfair . . . to TB5. TB's rookie year BY's year so far Somehow, TB5 had more yards per attempt, air yards per attempt and yards per completion his rookie year. Bryce has another year, so we'll see how it goes, but it's not promising so far.

Good QB's make the easy plays. Great QB's make the easy plays look easy; then they make tough plays happen. Young may be a good NFL QB in a couple years. Stroud is really good, right now. In a couple years, he may be GREAT.

Fun fact: Mike Wahle and James Campen were teammates in Green Bay.

Believe it or not, he has taken offensive snaps.

One play in one game doesn't change the arm strength argument. Just like one game doesn't suddenly make Young a franchise QB. It's a start. We're all happy to see it. Similarly, one game doesn't suddenly make us playoff contenders. We're happy to see the win, but there is a long, long road between where we are and becoming a consistent contender. Enjoy the win, and hope that we build from there. This is the way.

Ok, PFF has no freaking clue. Their stats don't even line up with . . . anything. (I'm not calling out the OP here - just PFF who remain crazy) Love to know how they measure that. His completion percentage is 63.2%, which is good for 23rd in the league. His on target percentage is 73% - good for 23rd among QB's with at least 50 attempts. His bad throw percentage is 20.9%, good for 31st (again, QB's with at least 50 attempts). He is 33rd in drops - he's only had three passes dropped all year. Keep seeing this dragged around, and it's just an excuse. I worked it out a week or so ago. Our receivers on average have 9 inches less separation than the overall NFL average. It's not ideal, but it's just not that far off. Of course you'd like to see your receivers running Travis Kelce open, but that's ALSO not anywhere near the NFL average. There is a bit of a point here, however, there's more to the story. 100% agree, Sanders has been eleventy kinds of awful this year. The real story however is that our defense isn't keeping the games close enough for a run game to really take root. We are next to last in points surrendered per game. It's very hard to run the ball when you are down multiple scores. I really despise superficial reporting. I wish someone would take the time to do real analysis. C'est la vie.

Unlike Bosa WHO IS the guy you build your line around. Thanks for making my point.

No one wants to hear about what Bryce did in college. All that does is earn you a shot in the NFL. THAT'S ALL. Bryce has his shot. Wins and losses this year? I don't care. What I want to see is some promise. I haven't given up. But he isn't making plays. He's just managing games - kinda. In this way he's miles ahead of guys like Trey Lance and Zach Wilson. But we need more. Even if it's just flashes. We need to see him do SOME things that look like a first overall draft pick - things other QB's don't do. Show me SPECIAL, not something I can go to 10+ other games and see.

Burns isn't Bosa and shouldn't be asking for that kind of money. Here, this is a quick table comparing the two. The line labeled Bosa (ex) is extrapolating the numbers Bosa should have when he catches up in snaps to Burns. Burns has most of a season on Bosa due to Bosa's injury in 2020 costing him nearly the entire year. Their tackle numbers look really similar, but in terms of Pressure, TFL's, Sacks . . . . Bosa is just a much, much better player. It's what people on the Huddle here keep trying to say. Yes, Burns plays and does things, but Bosa impacts games. All of the impact stats are HEAVILY in his favor. Burns doesn't make the plays that alter the games. Burns is REALLY GOOD. I'm not arguing that. I'm simply pointing out that he isn't in the same stratosphere as Bosa, and shouldn't be looking for that kind of money. It seems that the smartest thing we could have done last spring is included Burns in the deal with Chicago. We'd have still had a good WR in DJ, we wouldn't have his dead cap and we wouldn't have the headache of Burns right now.

We focus so much on Bryce and the offense because of what we gave up and who our coach is, that we sometimes lose sight of the big picture. Bryce deserves some criticism, he also deserves some time to figure it out. So far it doesn't look good, but he's here for at least this season and next, so we must continue to hope he figures it out. HOWEVER. Here is the piece we keep missing: We are one of the worst teams in the league at preventing points. We have a rookie QB who is going to make mistakes and generally be less effective - witness Andy Dalton. In that case, we need our defense to REALLY stand up and be accounted for. And ours is doing just the opposite. Some of that we should have expected. The coaches and team say all the right things about having the personnel they need to implement a 3-4. But the truth is when you switch systems like that, you're going to have problems until you get guys who are adept at playing that system. Oh, and let's not for get this: Three defensive starters on IR, as well as a couple rotational pieces. That's a big deal.

No, he's not. That's part of his problem. Young is a "playmaker", off schedule, out of structure point guard. Go back and look at all the draft profiles. What's happening now is that he's no longer athletic enough to create consistently. He's having to become more accustomed to throwing with anticipation and he's not there yet. In the NFL, you have to make the defense scared of your ability to play from the pocket. No one is scared of Bryce Young playing from the pocket. Stats bear this out; Young is one of the least blitzed QB's in the league - as a rookie! Hopefully he puts it together. His best chance to become "that guy" is to start beating teams from the pocket. That brings more blitzes. Then - hopefully - his chances to become that guy he was in college will show back up.

Irrelevant. What other teams value him as would be far more important in this equation. However, as I said in the other thread, we aren't trading him. Our depth is terrible and you can't tell your team six games in that you're giving up on the season.

I would trade Burns if there were two picks. A 1st this year and a 3rd next year or a 2nd this year and a 1st next year. Perhaps I'd trade Burns for a 1st and a player. After the season, I non-exclusive tag him. Let him go find a contract. If Burns is really "that guy", then someone should be willing to give him a contract and I get my two 1st rounders. If they don't, I tag him and keep tagging him until / unless he suddenly comes to his senses and realizes he's Mike Rucker and not Joey Bosa.

Let him stay where he is this year. He won't make a difference for us this year, and he won't be playing on his current contract next year anyway. His salary goes from 16 million this year to 35 million next year. No way the Raiders swallow that. They save 36 million on their cap next year by designating him post 6/1. Only QB's are worth that money - even as good as he is.

Our biggest hope next season is the dead cap that goes away. We have 55 million in dead cap that should go away unless sheer stupidity strikes and we start cutting / trading expensive assets again. Between that 55 million in dead cap, and another 29 million on IR, 35% of our cap this year is spent on players who aren't playing for us. That's too much to be competitive when the difference between winning and losing is so small. I'm actually a little surprised Sumir Sulieman hasn't been thrown under the bus yet. He's supposed to be our cap expert and frankly our cap has been a nightmare for years now. We keep looking at it during the season thinking "Oh, it's gonna look great next offseason" and yet we get to every offseason and it's still a mess.

Donte is here for the balance of this season, after which he'll be designated a post 6/1 cut. His cap hit next year is far too high, and we've already restructured him once pushing 7.5 million into the three years after his contract expires. But for this year, he's here. With our depth and injury history, we need him.

I'm sorry you missed the point. Haynes is what he is at this point. There is no "potential" to tap into. I'm sorry you've mistaken me for someone who is a Panthers trasher. I am definitely a Panthers realist. I prefer to look at what is really happening; not what any rose colored glasses tell me, and certainly not what the negative masses tell me. Haynes has shown us who he is. He's on his second contract, one which the Panthers had no competition for his signature on. Not even from the Washington Riverboats. He has 1338 snaps in his career, making 83 tackles and 13 sacks. By way of comparison, Mike Rucker was a good - not great - defensive end for us. After five years of his career he had 244 tackles and 36.5 sacks. Charles Johnson - good not great - 153 tackles and 31 sacks after five years. Haynes is the dictionary definition of a JAG. Doesn't mean he can't or won't contribute, just means he's an average NFL player. Every team has them, every team needs them. But you don't lay your hopes on a guy at this stage of their career suddenly becoming a solution. He's just a rotational piece we employ because you can't have a roster full of studs.

Talking about "potential" in a guy who is 29 this season is a little silly. All wishes for a full recovery to the guy, but he's a JAG.

Actually, if they call about Chinn I'd say "Give us back our first".

Sure, there are TONS of factors here. I'm just against the general idea that other QB's in the NFL have "more" of . . . . whatever we think Bryce doesn't have that is causing him to fail. Bryce is causing Bryce to fail. We have to stop making excuses and change something. I am not saying it's fatal. I'm not giving up on Bryce. What I am in favor of is giving him a chance to step back and watch. Some QB's need that! Look at Zach Wilson. I'm not saying he's a success story, by no means. But he's looking better this year. Some players take longer. Did we draft him too high? Maybe. Water under the bridge. I want us to try to fix it. I don't see how continuing to throw him out there will fix it. I'm sure it will fix Chicago's problem, but not Bryce Young's.

Our receivers are SLIGHTLY below average by NFL standards. Not massively, not even considerably. Just slightly. The NFL averages about 3 yards of separation. Our top 5 receivers average 2.74 yards. Is the difference between success and failure: 9 inches of separation? That's the hill we want to take a stand on? Think of it this way. What if our WR corps was George Pickens, Cooper Kupp, DJ Moore, Kyle Pitts and Stefon Diggs. Would Bryce be out of excuses then? I daresay he would be. He would also be throwing to receivers with 2.34 yards of average separation. Far less than we have now. Bryce needs to sit and learn. He's not one of the ones who comes in and lights it up. We have ample evidence of this fact now. That may be ok long term. But there are a lot of guys in the locker room who want to win, and Bryce can't get us there right now.

Disclaimer: Bryce is our guy for at least this year and next. At that point, if he's still the same guy he is today, he'll become our backup QB as we draft our new guy for our new coach. That said . . . To me, this is a terrible argument. "He needs more around him". If a guy is good enough to trade away your future, he better be the guy that elevates the team around him. For the folks who say "He needs time to throw" . . . well here are 11 guys who have been sacked more often, generally hurried more often, blitzed more often and had more balls dropped. Here's another way to look at something similar, look at all these guys with LESS pocket time that Bryce. Now, to be clear, the definition of pocket time here is one I really like. It's time in the pocket before pressure OR before throwing the ball. It puts equal weight on the QB making quick decisions and the line protecting. To all the folks who say "He needs an offense designed around his arm", I'm blacking out all the guys with less than 30 attempts, but using the same sort order as above. Now we're looking at downfield throw numbers. Bear in mind these are ATTEMPTS, not completions. No one in the league has fewer downfield attempts than Bryce. It's not because he has so much less time. It's an impossibility that our staff don't know this. They know it. They understand what it is doing to our offense. Look no further than Andy Dalton. The Red Rifle has nearly as many 20+ throws (7) in ONE GAME as Bryce has all season (8) . . . IN OUR OFFENSE. The bottom line is that Bryce is not NFL ready right now. He needs to sit. He needs to watch Dalton operate the offense. To understand how quickly decisions need to be made. BY still has plenty of time to prove that he can be the guy before heads roll. But the other 50+ guys on that roster deserve a chance to compete.

Here's the problem - that doesn't seem to be the case at all. It's being widely reported now that Frank and his staff were sold on CJ Stroud, but Tepper and wife wanted Young. Most recently it was Rich Eisen talking about it, but there have been others.