KSpan

No one is raging about anything and, as I said before, Ron dropped the ball on his own in plenty of ways and we saw the team come out flat and unprepared year in and year out. It is what it is.

Student plans, eh?

Without Ron being carried by the multiple generational talents he enjoyed during his time with the Panthers, and Carolina's teams some major talent during those years, his numbers would look much worse and he would not have gotten a chance to be mediocre for 11 years. The wild season-to-season results are the reflection of who he is as a coach IMO, and that is strikingly average.

Yes, that's the definition of 'average at best'. A number are worse, but also a number are better.

There were plenty of example of Ron being a poor strategist, failing to manage clock, making odd personnel choices, etc. It's not slander to say he's an average at best coach - after 12 years and amassing a 98-90-2 record, it's just the reality.

Flashbacks to 2015 and the team almost blowing several massive leads, including the Seahawks divisional game... blech.

Why? I'd bet every coach and player in the NFL feels the exact same in that situation and says or has said simialr things. Just the nature of it.

Everybody has bad reps but man, that was ugly. Got wayyyyyy out over his feet.

Even if he never fully developed as a passer (relatively speaking for him, as he was better than many give him credit for) Cam dragged and willed those teams to wins every year. How many wins the total team had at the end of the year depended on the talent and coaching around him, and Cam did lose some games on his own, but in baseball terms his WAR on those teams was very high. That said, there is a chicken/egg thing with Rivera and how Cam was used. I do believe though that he maximized his unique running ability, to overreliance at times.

I'm just talking in the imminent season, but that is a fair point. Reich may be an average coach overal but if he and his staff help Young develop into a star then that's a huge long-term plus.

That's the point though - 2011 was nowhere near a rebuild. It was strikingly similar to this year, an entirely new staff, new schemes, and a new QB, with similar talent overall... hell, the 2013 offense had 9 of the same starters as 2011 and the defense had 4 (5 if Godfrey hadn't gotten hurt). It's the entire premise of the original post that the real improvements may take a year or two to appear just like in 2011.

? I'm not saying it's definitive, as I consider it a general push overall, but I'd take the 2011 staff overall. Just a personal feeling as Reich has not bene impressive as an HC IMO. Looking at pts scored, 3 of Reich's 4 years as OC his offenses were middle of the pack or worse, with 2017 Philly being top-tier. Evero did fine with what was in Denver but they were #3 in pts scored the year before so obviously something there. Rivera had a #13, #1, and #3 defense in Chicago and #2, #4, and #2 defense in San Diego. McD had #19 and #21 defense in Philly. Chud had a #8 and #30 offense in Cleveland. The overall years are closer than I recall but doesn't change my thought.

You realize that the 2011 team returned 14 starters from that 'disaster' 2010 team and that a couple more that started for the first time in 2011 were on that 2010 roster, right? I addressed that exact topic in another post and, taken across the board, this team and the 2011 team are pretty equal in terms of total talent (2011 more stars on offense, this team has peaks in Burns and maybe Horn but 2011 was without both Beason and TD) and the 2011 staff had way more overall coaching experience. 2010 was a product of abysmal QB play and lame duck coaching way worse than last year. The rest of that roster was solid, especially the defense.

'Best roster in years' is not a high bar to reach, unfortunately. Beats the alternative though.

Coaching is a push at best IMO, with less overall total years of experience in respective positions with this staff and Rivera and McD both being highly successful as coordinators (I give the nod to 2011). Carolina had a little more offensive talent in 2011 (Cam, Smith, Olsen, Shockey, Double Trouble, Gross/Wharton/Kalil), and this year's defense has more talent overall since both Beason and TD were out for the year. Really pretty equivalent overall.

The part I've always thought but some would consider a hot take: Reich is an average at best, Rivera-esque coach that was a safe, boring hire steeped in nostalgia. No real on-field hot take beyond that. It was the first week of preseason in the first year after complete turnover of staff, scheme changes, and picking up a rookie QB. Of course it was likely to suck.

As much as i hate the spirit of fast passes, they were worth every penny when we went. Hell, we ended up staying a night in the resort even though we had a condo elsewhere because it was still cheaper than buying the passes alone.

Sacks count as TFLs.

Because the massive amount of change has to be factored in. New QB or new coach/schemes? Fine. New QB, a rookie at that, AND new coach? That's a ton to settle in and it renders the prior year effectively moot.

Almost like a brand new 3-4 scheme with personnel built for years to play a 4-3 might struggle a bit... crazy.

Reich is not an upgrade from Willks - they're both average, Rivera-esque coaches that will go up on down in any given year. Reich's staff appears better than Rhule's/what Wilks had to work with. We'll see if that makes a difference.

This again? What an awful approach to the season

I feel like this is the physical manifestation of the 'it may take some time' reality that some folks so vehemently talked down on. There are fans that really set themselves up for big disappointment and it's not necessarily because things suck, because who knows how it will all come together, but it may simply take at least this season to fully turn things over. Hopefully things come back down to Earth a little bit and a broader definition of success can be realized.

Who could've predicted there would be a learning curve this season? Almost like it's a rookie QB, entirely new staff with an HC that is being viewed with rose-colored nostalgia, lots of new personnel, and just general overhaul to rid the Rhule stench... Lots of potential here but yeah, gonna take a bit of time.

This good and hasn't even played an NFL down yet... Truly amazing.