KSpan

Sure, but they also enjoy elite QB play. Feel free to look at the losers in that window too and see how many 'just OK' QBs are there. A few more than on the winning side, sure, but you would expect that from the losing cohort. It is what it is. Doesn't mean teams just quit, but you don't win without top-tier QB play or historic defense to go with those bounces you mention. That's the reality of today's NFL.

You're not wrong about data starting with Brady, but that was also when the NFL began shifting into the current 'modern' form. They were still running pro sets with Shawn Alexander in 2005 and that all but evaporated within just a couple of years due to the rise of passing/change of WR bump rules. And you're absolutely right as well about Brady and Mahomes having good defenses. Hell, Spagnuolo was arguably the best non-Mahomes pickup that team has made. But even teams with stellar defenses like the Ravens can't get over the hump with a guy like Lamar.

I think the chicken has come before the egg though. They are skewing the numbers because they are THAT good, not because it's some sort of anomaly. Brady came first and now Mahomes, and if you want to win Super Bowls your QB has to be at or near that level.

It's not skewed though, that's just the result of the best QBs being on quality teams resulting in Super Bowls. Those guys are just that good and it's the bar that other QBs and teams have to meet or at least approach in order to compete. That's just how the NFL is these days. Having a dynasty would be great but even just being able to have the stars align and the team perform at an elite level like 2015 would be amazing. Unfortunately though, Cam absolutely played like Superman in elevating that offense to where it was, further supporting the requirement.

Gonna have to strongly disagree with you here. Here are the last 20 Super Bowls - only two of them IMO had QB that didn't play like Superman to get them there/win the game/both, and that was Peyton in 2015 and Ben in 2005. Even then they both had that ability, Peyton was just old and Ben young. That said, there were flashes in the pan like Foles in 2017 and (to a lesser degree) Flacco in 2012. But even counting that, it's 4/20. 20% odds aren't good enough and Bryce was absolutely drafted at #1 to be a guy that elevates an entire team and plays like Superman. If he can't do that then it's a failed pick, full stop. Being a poor man's Teddy doesn't cut it for a #1 overall and that's true for any team, not just Carolina.

If this is the least excited you've been rather than any of the last couple of years, then you just haven't been paying attention. Last year's failure was entirely predictable, though no one foresaw the complete utter debacle that unfolded. The current state of the team is just par for the course under Tepper. Perhaps, however, there are actual signs once the team hits the field for real in August.

Not a concern. Having a point guard QB allows you to spend less on receivers.

Expectations were already low for folks who weren't caught in nonsensical hype, and Bryce still underdelivered. Both things can be, and are, true.

Reasonable.

The whole point is that neither you nor I have any idea what the Texans would or wouldn't have done, and unlike some posters I'm not pretending that I do. I'm simply acknowledging possibilities. And since the post you're referencing popped up AFTER the one I responded to and in response to someone else no, that wasn't part of what I read. That's just the nature of message board conversations sometimes.

Seems to be the case, but we really don't know that either for sure. Maybe AR or even Levis (doubtful, but just for the sake or argument) would have been their choice if Carolina takes Stroud.All we know is that they were not concerned about not having control of the pick, and even if Young would have been their pick that doesn't absolve Carolina of any legitimate concerns that they may have overlooked. Having more than one team/person/etc willing to make a mistake doesn't automatically make it a good thing to do.

Carolina has been played more than once over the years in situations like this, so that's my cynical default assumption at this point. Not to say that other teams don't get played as well, but this is the only one who I prefer not fall for it...

BS. They clearly thought Stroud was at LEAST as good as Young or they wouldn't have stood pat, and wouldn't shock me at all if Stroud was the target all along.

I don't really think there is anyone here arguing that Carolina wasn't bottom of the barrel in any/all of those areas. However, it doesn't change that the execution of all of the individual players sucked as well, Bryce absolutely included. None of this is mutually exclusive.

The OL, receivers, and Bryce were all terrible in non-exclusive fashion. That said yeah, Bryce's play in particular sure compounded some of the issues.

Texas has him listed as playing at 207. Combine weight doesn't mean crap, with Bryce being Exhibit A. https://texassports.com/sports/football/roster/jonathon-brooks/12405 Even if he is 216 off-season, that is still 19 pounds lighter and unlikely to be maintained in-season. But feel free to keep being wrong and posting moronic nonsense while doing it.

Bryce absolutely gamed the system at the combine, but players are supposed to do what they can to increase their draft stock. That's their motivation and (typically) in their best interest. Any fault lies with Carolina/any other team for not seeing through it if there was indeed valid internal concern.

On the whole, I share the exact same sentiments. Tepper has pushed me to 'academic interest' status but it's hard to turn off 30 years of overall interest. Have to say though that the continued fractionation of the product and the ubiquity of gambling around the NFL in general is sure a growing turn-off.

That coming out of Tepper's mouth was way up there on the list of stupid things he's said/done since taking over.

They did in 2009. That was the only one though.

Andy Dalton was a franchise QB... just sayin'. That's not impressing anyone. And I explained what my expectations were as framework for the meaningless "doubters" comment that is almost as bad as "haters" being tossed around. This type of response adds nothing to a conversation where you yourself issued a challenge and I simply asked what the criteria were. It's not hard to see that a guy like Bryce has a bigger hill to climb than the average player and may not have been the smartest investment with that pick, but it's exactly that investment that drives up the expectations and sets the bar high. Dude was individually terrible last year, as was the offense as a whole - gonna take more than middle-of-the-pack QB stats and for multiple years to "prove the doubters wrong".

As an honest question here, what level of performance "proves the doubters wrong"? Guy was the #1 overall pick and came at a tall price. I fully expect him to achieve Bridgewater-like numbers and eventually be at that level of player, but that sure doesn't justify the #1 overall and doesn't prove anyone wrong. Are we talking something like consistent years of top 10 QB play as the threshold for "proving the doubters wrong"?

And again with something completely out of touch with the reality of what your posts are doing, which is creating potential parallels between Smith, Mills, and Bryce. And yet you argue that you aren't... Your posting attitude has sucked for a good while but has hit insufferable lately. Blech. Happy Thursday.