SCO96

None of us want Sam for the long term. We all know we need someone else to lead us the rest of the decade if we intend to be successful. We're saying that if we're paying 18 mil he might as well play until we (hopefully) find a replacement after 2022. I don't think a top FA will want to come here next season. We don't have a promising QB on the roster, and this is a down year in terms of top college QB prospects. It is suppose to be a good year for lineman. Use our picks there and roll with Darnold in 2022. The QB job will much more desirable in Carolina if a new QB had a good blocking line protecting him.

I'm not a Sam Darnold fan. I wasn't high on him coming out of USC. I saw the flaws in his game. Still, I cringed when he got picked by the Jets. Some 21 year old kids can handle the transition to the NFL almost immediately (Wilson, Flacco , Ryan, Herbert), but for most their is some struggle (just look at this year's 1st round class). Putting a turnover prone QB like Darnold in the media capital of the world with a coach like Adam Gase was a disaster in the making. Then he comes to Carolina, a team with one of the worst O-lines in the league, and an offense where players around the league say they know what routes we're running before then ball is snapped didn't exactly set him for success. Losing CMAC only made things worse. Darnold should have never been a first round pick. Talent wise he seemed more like a 2nd/3rd rounder who should have had time to sit on the bench and given time to learn the game from the sidelines and QB room for his first couple of years in the league.

What you said is true. No one is disputing that. But, let's be honest. Darnold has played behind some atrocious offensive lines in NY and Carolina. He doesn't appear to have received stellar coaching either. That's a lot to put on guy who is still only 25( I think) This year Sam, PJ, and Cam have literally had to run for the lives one second after snapping the ball. How can anyone process the field when they barely have time to set their feet? I We all know Darnold has all the physical tools to play the position. We all know that he's a tough guy. So far he hasn't mastered the mental aspects of the position. Still I have the nagging thought that just won't go away. If he ever landed with a team/coach with a talent for grooming QBs (Walsh, Reid, McVey) he just might become a viable QB in the NFL.

I'm not a fan of the current state of affairs in Charlotte, but I can't say I'm surprised. Let's be honest, Cam has lost his last 12 starts for the team. His one win came in a game he didn't start. I don't think he's done anything to indicate that the team should build around him. He can't push the ball down field consistently anymore. He may actually play better if he isn't behind center the entire game. As for Darnold, you're stuck with him next year. I don't think this is the year to get a QB in the draft so it may not be the worst thing to see what he can do with BC starting at left tackle. If Brady plays well for the rest of the season, then we'll be set at the tackle positions and can use the draft to get the best interior lineman on the board. With a rebuilt line in 2022, Darnold may actually play better and the hold the fort until we can acquire a franchise guy in 2023-2024

I've experienced Brady fatigue for over a decade so I just had to chime in when I saw this error. Mr. Brady has lost THREE SUPERBOWLS. Eli and the NY Giants beat him TWICE...and Doug's Peterson's Eagles beat him a couple of years ago. If he ever losses another SB, Brady will own the most record for most SB wins and be tied with Jim Kelly for the most SB losses. IF he gets back to another SB I sincerely hope he gets the latter mark.

I agree with you about the O-line being the top priority even if Pickett falls to us. No QB can really excel behind the guys we currently have. Thing is, we still don't know exactly what we need to do this off-seasson. Rhule should have started B. Christensen by mid-season at Tackle (or dare I say it ...guard) to determine what he could give us. If he had succeeded at either spot we'd know that one position was taken care of. If Deonte Brown had been given an opportunity and played well at guard, we'd have two spots nailed down. Then we could have focused on Center, and a tackle (or guard position). At the current time, we don't know what we have in either player. To make matters worse if we take a lineman in round one, we won't pick again until round 4 (barring some trades). I don't see Carolina being a prime spot for prime free agents this year. It's going to be hard to significantly improve or line if we don't get some good play form B.C and D.Brown in 2022. If those two guys became solid starters along with Moton and a 2022 1st round lineman, I'm inclined to believe that every QB currently on the roster would improve next season just by being able to set their feet for more than 1 second on passing plays. This could maybe put us in play to get a franchise QB in 2023 if we don't do so this offseason.

https://fansided.com/2021/12/19/nfl-hot-seat-matt-rhule-joe-judge/3/ Look at where he ranks on the top 3 coaches on the hot seat after weak 15

In theory I agree with you. We don't have a pick on Day 2 of the draft. After our first round pick we don't select again until round 4. If we could get a later 1 and pick up a high 3rd rounder it would make sense on paper. However, I don't trust the FO/coaching staff to select the right guy(s) or even let them see the field if they do (ie Brady Christensen)

I thought he was gonna dump it off to the guy in the flat in front of Klein. I dropped my head as soon as the ball left his hand.

This season has been a disaster. Despite everything that went wrong a tiny/miniscule part of my conscience was saying "maybe Rhule deserves one more year" to see if he can turn things around. After today's debacle, I think it's time to cut bait. I don't see how any objective person can look at the last two seasons and say "we have the guy at HC who can help us win championships". This offensive line is embarrassing. He has let our a 3rd round pick sit on the bench apparently for the entire game (I missed the 1st quarter). John Miller has played poorly at guard today. If BC's short arms disqualify him from playing LT, could you at least put him in at guard to see if it would possibly help Cam from being killed today? Never thought I'd be saying this, but we need to follow the example down in Jacksonville and admit that we need a new captain to steer this sinking ship.

And Matt Rhule won't start our rookie 3rd round LT because his arms about and inch shorter than he thinks they should be.

Cam has NO time to set his feet on his throws. He threw that TD pass off balance and falling backwards. This O-line is a disgrace. I literally get nervous every time takes a snap from the center on a passing play against this pass rush.

The wideouts are playing ok Our TE's are pretty much a non factor... AGAIN. I can't figure out why this team doesn't do more to integrate them into the passing game . If they were legitimate passing options in our offense they could be security blankets for our QBs and open up things down the field.

What kind of call was that. Chubby on 3rd and 3 against.that defense? He ain't exactly Derrick Henry.

It boils down the our major weakness since 2018, a lack of consistent QB play. Some unpreventable...and some due to poor personnel evaluations. Cam got hurt midway thru 2018 and we had to rely on a backup. Cam only played two games in 2019. Ended the season with a backup. We had Teddy Bridgewater in 2020. He's not the worse QB on the NFL by a longshot. But, he isn't exactly Mr.Clutch. Carolina lost 8 games by one score or less on 2020 with a shot to win each one one in the 4th quarter and Teddy couldn't manage one win. We pinned our hopes on Sam Darnold in 2021. He became a turnover machine after week 3. PJ Walker has a live arm but he throws too many INTs and and doesn't know how/when to give up on a play. Cam is far removed from his 2015 MVP season, and he joined the team in the middle of the season which makes it even more difficult for him. I think all of the above would have benefit from a better O-line. But, they have all made some bad throws and poor decisions that have cost us some games. The upper echelon QBs would be more successful here despite the O-line deficiencies because they have the ability to elevate the play of their teammates. None of our QBs have been able to do that since 2018.

I’m hoping he makes more impact on the field during the last quarter of the season and the momentum can carry over into breakout in season 3. I hate to be negative, but I was never crazy about the Brown pick in 2020. Perhaps my expectations were too high. But, if I take a DT in the top 10, then I’m expecting a game wrecker who can collapse the pocket on a regular basis or a guy can literally stuff a run game as an immovable force. I don’t see Brown as a player who does either of the above…at least not yet. If his current level of play continues I think you seriously have to consider whether or not to start looking for a replacement for him at DT after year 5 of the rookie contract is completed. You can find someone to replace him in couple of years who can do the job he does for a whole lot less money. I can’t even conceive of giving him a big money deal for a 2nd contract based on what we’ve seen so far.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1969705-vince-lombardi-was-also-a-great-general-manager I pasted a link above just in case you wanted to read the entire 2014 article on Vince Lombardi as a coach and GM. I'm only going to post a portion of it here. It follows up on a good point you made in your post. "Lombardi inherited a team that went 1-10-1 in 1958. That team also had a lot of untapped talent then. On that squad were a number of players who would later be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Players like center Jim Ringo, offensive tackle Forrest Gregg, quarterback Bart Starr, halfback Paul Hornung, fullback Jim Taylor and middle linebacker Ray Nitschke. (Note: Jerry Kramer was on this team, but he didn't make the Hall of Fame until after it was written) Lombardi took that 1-10-1 team from 1958 and immediately brought a winning tradition to Green Bay. In 1959 the Packers went 7-5 under Lombardi. A year later they played in the NFL championship game against the Philadelphia Eagles. That would be the only postseason game Lombardi and his Packers ever lost. The excellence of those teams was helped a great deal by the players Lombardi had inherited when he joined the team. But he also added to that excellence by acquiring some great talent himself through the draft and trades, plus free agent and waiver acquisitions as general manager... ------- I know football was a different game back in the 1960's,, but I suggest reading the entire article. Lombardi did it all by himself with is rare these days. But, there isn't any reason why a good coach and good GM can't get on the same page an build a winner in Carolina. Lombardi took a one win squad to a title in his 3rd year...and 7 of the players on that 1-10-1 team are Hall of Famers. I'm not saying we have that type of talent here, but coaching makes a difference. I bet you none of those guys would be remembered today if not for Lombardi getting the absolute best out of them. Rhule can't seem to do that with his players and even seems to have difficulty properly evaluating personnel. I have no doubt that Belichik, Peyton, Reid, Harbaugh, Tomlin, or LaFleur, or McVey could have this team as solid wild card team, if not division winner, if they had taken over in 2020. I think they would have needed a 3rd or 4th season to compete for a SB title with all of the inherited holes. A couple of them could probably take the current squad and coach them to a 9-10 win seasons if they took over in 2022 and fielded the exact same squad.

No one said the Jags should have passed on Lawrence. Any team in need of a QB would have selected him if they had a #1 pick. His track record shows he was worthy of the selection. There have been classes that have produced several Hall of Fame worthy QB's in the top 10. If the talent is there, I'm all for grabbing the franchise QB. Still, even Trevor is going to look bad if he's surrounded by mediocre talent. What people are saying is that there may not be a QB good enough to take in the first round in THIS DRAFT. If Jimmy Clausen, Brady Quinn, Akili Smith, and Joey Harrington were the top 4 QB's in this draft, the Panther's would be crazy to take one of these guys with a top 10 pick. Why not? These guys are not talented enough to be FRANCHISE QB's. I really can't speak on Howell or Pickett because I haven't seen enough film on either one. But, there are guys who get paid to analyze the upcoming draft classes each year. When they say this is a weak QB class, I think we need to pause and hear them put. I think they're professional analysis carries more weight than yours or mine.

That's not always the case sir. There have been draft classes that have produced no successful starters in the 1st round. There have been drafts that haven't produced any solid starters at all. https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-draft-best-qb-class-since-2000-worst-let-s-rank-em-all-0ap3000001108141 https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/05/18/nfl-draft-worst-quarterback-classes Take a look at the links above for the proof. Young QB's need help if they're going to a bad team. Trevor Lawrence was the highest ranked prospect in years...in the category of John Elway, Peyton Manning, and Andrew Luck. He threw 4 INT's yesterday and has struggled this year. Why? His team is terrible. No college in this year's draft will succeed in Carolina until the O-line is fixed.

I think Mr. Scott is implying that there probably isn't a QB worth taking in 5-10 area of the draft. We all know we need a QB to have a chance at competing for titles. But the last thing you want to do is draft out of desperation and end up with a Cade Mcknown, Akili Smith, Andre Ware, Josh Rosen, Christian Ponder, Jake Locklear, JaMarcus Russell, EJ Manual type of player which would set the team even further back in terms of winning. First round quarterbacks are far from a sure thing. You also have to factor in the state of the team that's drafting him. Most bad teams get high draft choices for one reason...they're bad teams. If you put a 21-23 year old on a team with bad coaching and a poor offensive line you're just setting him up for failure. The line needs to be built first. Last year was the year to do it. We passed on 5-6 Tackles and 3 interior lineman, including the best center in the draft, before we took a WR @ 58. We could have picked one of those guys and still got Brady in the 3rd round. If Rhule was set on playing him at Guard, so be it, just start him there from Day 1 and 40% of the line is upgraded with 2 choices. We didn't do it, and we have the same problem. If somehow we were able to get a couple top FA lineman to sign before the draft then I could see taking a QB in round one. But, I have to ask why would a top lineman want to play for this team considering the woeful state of the Panthers? We don't need castoffs from other teams so we're gonna have to do it thru the draft.

I've watched a lot of football in my life. I have NFL memories dating back to the 1970's. I have seem teams that were just plain bad wind up with high draft choices and use them on QBs. But, I didn't see them go out and lose on purpose. Most NFL franchises and player have too much pride for that. I can't recall a team that was clearly tanking at the end of a season to get a franchise QB; and then actually winning a title once they got him. I'd like for someone to give me an example.

I don't get this reasoning at all. The extra point was the right way to go. You needed 15 points to tie so you had to have two TDs an extra point , and a 2 pt conversion. Get the 7 points. Then if the defense makes a stop you have a chance to tie with a TD and 2pt conversion. You don't have to attempt an inside kick which statically you have very little chance of recovering. If you go for the 2pt conversion and miss, then you hope you recover an onside kick. Score a TD and an extra point (or 2 pt conversion) and then get the ball again to have one last shot. Instead of needing 2 TDs to win , you now need 2 Tds, an onside kick recovery, and a 3rd score to win. You may could try that at the start of the 4th quarter because you'd have 15 minutes. We had a lot less time than that. The team had struggled all day. I'm glad we had to get the extra point because we at least had a shot going down the home stretch.

Good point. Last year's team was frustrating because of the narrow losses, but at least the team was still compelling. With the exception of our 2nd losses to Tampa and New Orleans, all of our losses were by 10 points or less. This year's team just looks bad. The QB play has clearly diminished from last year. The O-line looks worse this season which I didn't think was possible. The bad offense is having a side effect of hurting the defense because they're on the field for too many snaps. Plus, it has to be hard on morale when you know the offense is usually non existent in the 2nd half and lacks firepower to be competitive with good teams. If someone told me at the start of the season that we'd be this bad on 2021 I would've told them that they were CRAZY.

I actually agree with you. Brady and Brown should be starting…or at least be getting more reps than they are currently getting? As you pointed out, they haven’t played enough to see what they can do. For all we know, answers to our Oline woes could already be on the roster. I think our rookie class is talented. My comment about them may have been phrased poorly. I was trying to say that based on their lack of playing time and misuse, their overall contributions have been minimal. Ask yourself this, based on what they’ve done this season, if none of them were on the team, would we be that much worse? Brady is playing out of position when he does play. And, if Rhule thinks he should be a guard, then start him and let’s see what he can do. I dont even know if Brown has seen then field. Tremble is a TE who has shown flashes, but he’s in an offense that doesn’t feature that position. He also a good blocker, but we never see him in the backfield as a lead blocker. Horn is hurt, but we already know he can play. He just needs to get healthy TMJ has been a non factor for weeks. Outside of Chiba, the rookie’s haven’t had a chance to showcase their talents. This is especially frustrating because they’re probably better than they guys in front of them…or at least as good. I would have looked at this as year 2 of a 3 year rebuild and had those guys playing a lot more to see what they are capable of doing on the field. By seasons end we’d know if we were set or in need of better players.

Mike Singletary is a Hall of Fame MLB who played his entire career with the Bears. He grew up wanting to play for his favorite team, the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys considered drafting him in 1981 but decided not to for one reason, Gil Brandt didn’t think he was tall enough.. Back in the day, Dallas built their teams based on their expectations of height, weight, and speed. The Cowboys wouldn’t draft a LB if he wasn’t 6 ft tall. Singeltary was 5ft 11 inches. Singletary lettered all four years at Baylor, a university in Texas. He was named All-America twice, and Southwest conference player of the year twice. His coach tried to convince Tom Landry to give him a shot but He and Brandt couldn’t get over the fact that he was 3/8 of an inch shorter than their ideal lb so they picked a guard named Howard Richards in the first round. Then in rounds 4-5 they picked 3 LBs in a row. I was a Cowboy fan back then. All four of those guys were off the team by 1986, and none of the linebacker ever became a starter. But hey, at least all 3 linebackers were 6ft tall. Analytics should help you make decisions like someone pointed out, but that shouldn’t be the deciding factor. You need to make your decision on one thing, CAN THIS DUDE PLAY FOOTBALL? They Cowboys lost back to back NFC title games in 1981 and 1982 to eventual SB winners San Francisco and Washington. The run defense collapsed late in both games. You have to wonder if things may have been a bit different if they’d have had Hall of Fame MLB in those games. We need to see if Christensen can play LT.