SCO96

I think we've done a good job in free agency. We need to use this draft to get some immediate playmakers on the field. Whichever QB we choose at #1 is going to help right from the start. If a stud edge rusher, LB, WR, or DB is on the board at #39 we need to bite the bullet and pick the guy. Like someone mentioned earlier, all of that trading down from the 2nd round in 2021 has yet to pay off. The moves resulted in one solid starter (Brady Christensen), a solid platoon RB (Chubba Hubbard), and a guy we still have no idea how good he is at WR (TMJ).

He still may be. You can’t judge a guy based on one preseason game as a rookie under a Matt Rhule coached team. Brock Purdy became somewhat of media darling last year. He led his team to the NFC title game despite being the last player taken in the 2022 draft and showed that he belonged in the NFL. He would have looked like every other QB who played in Carolina from 2020-2022…average/mediocrity to terrible/awful.

As a general rule, I tend to agree. But, it's not always so cut and dry. I think the decison to go for a 2nd contract depends on two things: 1) The talent of the back. Some guys are just in a class by themselves. Eric Dickerson, Walter Payton, Tony Dorsett, John Riggins, Adrian Peterson, Curtis Martin. Emmitt Smith, and Barry Sanders all had 1,000 yard seasons after the age of 30. It would have made sense to extend them after their 4th year in the league when they were in the 25-27 age range. If they were playing today I'd definitely front load the deal so the cap numbers would be lower at the end of the contract just in case the inevitable drop off began prior to 30. 2) The number of carries/hits they've had. Years ago a couple of guys did a studies on the decline of RB's. They found it wasn't necessarily the age that caused the decline, but the number of carries the RB had. a) Most backs who get 370 carries in a season tend to experience a huge drop off the following year. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1271412-why-and-when-do-nfl-running-backs-start-to-decline#:~:text=The Curse of 370&text=A running back with 370,he is named Eric Dickerson. b) When a back reaches 1,800 carries for a career there will often be a drastic drop off over the next two seasons. https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/4940/measuring-nfl-running-back-longevity-falling-off-the-1-800-carry-cliff A great back who averages 250 carries a year or less has a good chance of being productive for 7-8 seasons in the NFL before a drastic decline occurs. NOTE: If the average age for back is 21-23 upon entering the league and he starts his rookie year, that does seem to coincide with the age 30-31 drop off point. The ideal situation seems to be finding a great back after the 1st round and extending him after the 3rd year (if he turns out to be elite) so the second contract ends before he reaches the 1800 carry/age 30 threshold. Or, getting a stud in round one and keeping him for the length of the 5 year deal, then franchising him for a season (or two) and have a replacement ready by the time he hits 28.

Jay Cutler played in Chicago from 2009-2016. He threw 154 TD passes which is the most in franchise history. Now take a look at who is behind him at #2. SID LUCKMAN! This guy won 4 titles for the Bears back in the day. He was a top QB in his day and finished with 137 TD passes. He averages 8.4 yds per attempt, which would be stellar even in today's pass happy NFL. Here's the amazing thing about his rank on the Bears all time TD list. SID LUCKMAN retired in 1950! He literally retired the year before my nearly 72 year old mother was born (1951)! No other Bear QB on franchise history has even reached 100 TD passes with the team. Billy Wade Is #3 (68 TDs) He played with Mike Ditka and Gayle Sayers back in the 1960s! He left the Bears after the 1966 season. Jim McMahon is right behind him at #4 with 67 TDs. Mitch Trubimsky is at #5 with 64. There's a reason why Chicago has only won 2world titles (1963-Wade and 1985-McMahon) since LUCKMAN retired in 1950. They have struggled to acquire or develop a true difference maker at the position. History shows that going to the Chicago Bears is one of the worst things that could happen to a young QB.

...or back to back winning seasons It's ironic that shortly after we hire our first offensive minded HC, Mr. Richardson dies the following month. I had the opportunity to meet him once in Spartanburg at the Marriot Hotel. Pleasant Encounter. Condolences to the family.

804 Yards , 6 TD's, 67 receptions for the season Per game average: 47.3 yards, 1 TD every 3 games, 3.9/4.0 receptions per game. That's worth 18-20 million per year!!

The most famous QB in Dallas Cowboy history, Roger Staubach, didn't enter the NFL until he was 27 due to a 4 year stint in the Navy. He didn't become a full time starter until age 29. I'm not saying Hooker is the 2nd coming of Staubach, but I don't think him entering the league at age 25 is in and of itself a big factor in determining how well he plays in the NFL. In fact, the older and maturity could turn out to be a huge positive in his favor.

I don't see too many post on this forum that I consider to be twisted and diabolical , yet clever and somewhat brillliant at the same time.

None of us have a problems with drafting a QB in round 1. We just have issues on how it's done. No team has ever traded up into the top 5 to get a QB and won a Super Bowl with him. I'm sure it may happen one day. You may have a team that is a QB away and they get a guy to put them over the top. What you haven't seen, and will not see, is a bad team with weaknesses on both sides of the ball given away multiple picks in multiple years for a QB and win a SB. Those missing picks will prevent the team from fill the other holes and putting enough talent around him to win. If we gave up a #1 pick in 2025, the next time we get a #1 pick (2026), the rookie we drafted in 2023 would be eligible for a contract negotiation after the end of his 3rd season, 2025. This will have a major impact on the salary cap should the team opt to extend him at that time.

Agreed. If the Rams did try to trade Aaron Donald (assuming he doesn't have a no trade clause) I bet he would retire before he'd go to an undesired location. I "could" see him agreeing to go to a team like KC (who wouldn't want to play for those guys right now), Pittsburgh (he went to college there), or a team with a championship window still intact (Bengals, Bills, Philadelphia). He's made enough money to last for several lifetimes. He could probably retire now and leave the games with no regrets and walk Canton in 5 years.

Guys like Richardson need good coaching to reach their potential. If Matt Rhule (or even Ron Rivera) were still calling shots I'd be terrified of drafting him in round 1 because I don't think either coach would handle him correctly. The thought of him playing under Reich, Caldwell, Brown, and McCown is a entirely different matter. Any QB they draft, sign, or mentor (Matt Corrall) is going to get better. That's why I'm totally cool with staying at 9 or maybe moving up a 2-3 slots at most.

It's already been shown that trading up to the top 5 has never produced a Super Bowl winner yet people have deluded themselves into believing that's the only way to get a franchise QB. You don't need to get the top QB in the draft to have success in the NFL. You need to find a QB who is coachable, poised in pressure situations, and physically/mentally talented enough to execute the plays in a team's offensive playbook, and doesn't turn the ball over. If a guy can do that, it doesn't matter where you find him. It can be top 5, top 10, round 2, round 3, or round 7 for that matter. There's nothing wrong with taking the 3rd or 4th option on the board if he can ball out on the field and fits YOUR OFFENSIVE SCHEME. Lamar Jackson was last pick in round 1 and last of the 5 QB's taken in his draft class. The mentality on this board at times seems to indicate that he wouldn't been considered by some here because he wasn't drafted in the top 5 like Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold.

This is a long thread. If this has been posted I apologize. I found this on NFL.com. Bucky Brooks is a former player and scout. He's a knowledgeable guy. He has Hooker ranked #3 in this years QB class, just ahead of Levis @ #4. Both reports are worth reading because. Pros and Cons are listed. Both guys would benefit from the strong coaching staff Reich has assembled in Carolina. https://www.nfl.com/news/bucky-brooks-top-five-2023-nfl-draft-prospects-by-position-1-0-stroud-young-hook

Good points. But, if he's playing behind an offensive line with 4 and 5 star guys he's going to have more time to throw. If he's throwing to 5 star receivers going up against 3-4 star DB's (or worse) he's going to have more guys open. If he has an NFL caliber RB in the backfield that makes him even more dangerous. I think Young is the most polished QB coming out. That doesn't mean he'll end up the most successful QB in the NFL. So much determines the success of a QB: Draft destination, offensive scheme, front office, talent of skill players, O-line, and even the defense. A lesser talented guy coming out of the draft could end up with better career than the more talented guy just because he end up going to a team with a much stronger foundation.

That's the thing we really do not know. Stroud and Young play for perennial football powers. Every single year their recruiting classes are among the top 10 in the nation...and in most cases top 5. The reason certain teams always seem to be in the top 10 is because their roster is stacked with 4 and 5 star players. When QB's from those teams step on the field most of time they are more talented than the opposition. According to 247sports.com, BAMA and Ohio State are both in the top 5 for recruiting classes. Will Levis played for Kentucky, a perennial BASKETBALL power. Kentucky can field some good teams, but we know they're never going to win a national championship because they can't even win the SEC EAST. When they go up against GA, BAMA, LSU, Florida, Tenn they are going to be outgunned in most years. My SC Gamecocks were good enough to beat Clemson and Tennessee in back to back weeks, and we still finished 3rd in the SEC East. Kentucky's recruiting class is #31 by 247sports.com Ask your self this, would Young and Stroud be as dominant playing at Kentucky instead of BAMA and Ohio State? And, How would Levis look if he played on those teams instead of with the Wildcats? We really don't know the answer to either question. Still, I just don't see Bryce Young winning the Heisman Trophy at Kentucky. I am by no means a QB expert, but I have noticed that in recent years that some of the more productive 1st round QB's aren't coming from perennial powerhouse teams. (ex: Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Allen). All of the following have won SB's this century: Brees, Big Ben, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Joe Flacco. All were 1st rounders except Brees ( a high 2nd rounder). None of these guys mentioned above in either list played for a Blue Blood college program. Matt Ryan and Phillip Rivers didn't win SB rings, but both have had solid NFL career. They went to Boston College and NC State. I'm more impressed with the guys who are able do more with less talent in the collegiate ranks. Those type of guys seem to thrive in the NFL. A great QB can do more with less in the pros. His play can elevate the team and help hide/overcome deficiencies that are bound to exist on team due to the crunch of the salary cap and the movement of players due to free agency.

You're making a big assumption with this post. Let's not for get that Free agency is before the draft. Why do you think "top tier" free agents would want to come to a team that hasn't had a winning record since 2017? Why would top tier free agents get excited about coming to a franchise that has never had back to back winning seasons in its 28 year history? Why do you think Carolina would be a dream destination for top tier free agents when we are currently several millions of dollars over the cap? I don't think top tier free agents are dying to come to Carolina knowing that the only two QB's currently on our roster are Matt Corrall and Jacob Eason? We'll become a desired destination for "top tier free agents" when/if we establish a winning culture. Or, if someone out there is just thrilled with the prospect of playing under the new coaching staff (which I admit is possible). We've got some nice pieces in place, but we need more. The draft picks we have in 2023 and 2024 really should lay the foundation for future success if we play our cards right. How successful can any franchise QB, or a potential franchise QB in our case, really be if you don't surround him with any good to elite talent at the skill postions or on the defensive side of the ball?

Those guys aren't studs. We all agree on that. Yet, even you will agree that as bad as the NFC South was last year, we probably would have won our division with any of those guys starting the majority of the games. We can probably win the division with one of them this year.

I was just about to post the same thing Jon. Everyone seems to be saying that they'll have confidence in our staff "if they decide to move up grab a QB in the top 3". I wonder if they'll have the same confidence if they decide to stay out at #9...or dare I say it...trade back for more picks to fill more holes? I think you, me, and bunch of others would still feel very optimistic about the upcoming season. But, I think half of our fellow Huddlers would have panic attacks if Carolina doesn't move up to take Stroud or Young.

We had 35 sacks as a team in 2023. Burns had 12.5 of them. No other D-lineman had half that many. Our 2nd leading sacker was Frankie Luvu, a LB, with 7 sacks. Our DT's combined for a whopping total of 2 sacks. The Panthers would literally have no pass rush if we traded Burns. With no pass rush our secondary would suffer as well. To make matters worse, with no #2 in 2023 or #1 picks in in 2024 and 2025 it would hard to replace him. You'd have assume you would replace that production with a rookie drafted after the 2nd round in 2023, or after the 1st round in 2024 and 2025. No way we should ever make a move like that...and expect to field a competent defense for the next couple of seasons. We need to trying to get Burns some help on the D-line instead of trading him.

"If" I were a fantasy GM and opted not to take a QB in the top 10, I would do almost exactly what you outlined in your post.

Since you asked, I'll go into fantasy GM mode. Assuming we didn't sign a FA this offseason, here's what I'd do. I'd interview the top 5-6 QB's and learn everything that I possibly could about them in terms strengths, weaknesses, mindset etc. I'd ask the coaches if they thought they could work with & groom a franchise QB with any of the guys besides Stroud or Young. If the OC, QB coach, and HC all said "No". I'd actually consider trading up if I didn't have to give up a #1 or #2 in 2025. If they said "there are two or three guys in this draft that we feel we can win with", I'd stay put at 9 and take a QB in round one. I'd use our two #2's and our #3 pick on Day two of the draft with the intention of coming away with three starters or at least 2 starters and 1 solid contributor. I'd use day 3 and 4 for depth picks and to possibly find some diamonds in the rough. I'd want the rookie behind center by midseason unless he was absolutely not ready to play. If he were ready I'd start him on week one. Our division is weak. The goal would be to win the NFC South in 2023. I would not go into the season thinking we were a SB contender. Our cap clears up significantly in 2024. I'd go into the 2024 preseason with the thoughts of filling any remaining holes with FA's and strong 2024 draft with the intention of making to make a deep playoff run in 2024, definitely no later than 2025.

True. But they didn't win with they guy they traded up for. They ended up getting a QB through a trade who had never won a playoff game with his previous team, Matthew Stafford. Agreed. In hindsight the same thing happened in 2018. Allen and Jackson should have been the top 2. Baker and Sam went ahead of Josh and Rosen went ahead of Lamar. It just goes to show that the top 2 guys picked aren't guaranteed to be the top 2 QB's in the class Wentz didn't finish the regular season or play in the postseason. Peterson's brilliant coaching that year and a strong supporting cast allowed the Eagles to beat the might Patriots with a career journeyman/backup...Nick Foles. When Foles left town Wentz was unable to hold on the job and has been traded to two different teams. The Eagles made it back to the SB with a 2nd round draft choice. Correct. However, they were able to go most of the season with Jimmy G (2nd round pick) and Brock Purdy (7th round) as their starters. Trey Lance has contributed to none of the success the 49ers have had for the past two season. He may blossom in time, but at the current time its' looking like they didn't need to trade away all of those picks to move up to select him. https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2021/6/18/22533745/looking-back-at-the-trades-that-landed-josh-allen-for-the-buffalo-bills-notes-nfl-draft Check out the link above for the details of this trade. Buffalo ended up jumping from #12 to #7 with 2 trades. The first with the Bengals moved them from #21 to #12. The gave away their starting tackle and pick #185 and got pick #187 in return Then they traded with Tampa and moved from #12 to #7 and parted with two picks in the 2nd round (#53 and #56) and got #255 in retuen They didn't away multiple #1 draft choices in back to back years like people seem to be suggesting we should do. And, as I've brought up before, the Bills were a playoff team the season before they drafted Allen with Tyrod Taylor at QB. I love Allen play, but so far he has yet to make it to an AFC Conference title game. Moving up to get QB's in the top 5 in recent years has not produced one QB who won a SB with the team that drafted him.

We beat two playoff teams with winning records at home this year (Seattle and Detroit). Kudos for that. Our other 5 wins came against teams that finished below .500 and won 8 games or less. (Denver, TB, Atlanta, New Orleans twice). Wilks did make us better, but the bar was set pretty low with Matt Rhule I'm glad you used the phrase "if you deemed any of these as your guy". The coaching staff may not think the two guys at the top are worth the draft capital to move up. I'd cheer whoever we picked if we did move up. But, I'd be equally supportive if we took someone later. I don't think a large percentage of the Huddlers are as open minded. Their mindset seems to be get Young or Stroud in the top 3, or suffer in mediocrity for the rest of the decade.

You can take shot for a 1st round QB without giving up 3 years worth of draft picks. Everyone wants to win now. If the trade up doesn't work the losing will continue. It's not as simple as "If he don’t pan out he just doesn’t pan out.." We are not a championship caliber team. How is this team going to fill holes and get better if the guy you mortgage the picks for doesn't pan out? You won't have any high draft choices left to fill the roster. We lost 10 games playing in the worst division in the NFL. We need more/better players on both sides of the ball.. I can see risking a #1 this year. I can live with a #1 in 2024. But not 2025 too. Our best pass rusher will be a free agent at the end of the year. If we don't resign him you'll have to draft a replacement. We can forget about anyone in the first round since we won't have any 1st round picks in 2024 or 2025. We're gonna have to part with some #2 and #3 choices in some of those years as well. 2025 picks should be a no go. Personally, I think Richardson should be the target at #9. With this coaching staff I think he'd be in a situation tailor made for his success in the NFL (if the staff likes him of course). If we took any QB in this draft after the top 5 picks I'd feel good about it because I have confidence in this staff to groom and develop a quality starter. Having an offense minded head coach is a game changer for this franchise

Suppose the guy we pick doesn't pan out you after you move up for him in the 2023 draft? Everyone who wants to move up seems to believe Young and Stroud are can't miss prospects. What if they are not? You wouldn't have the option of picking a QB in the first round again to rectify the mistake until 2026! You'd also be missing several other high draft choices. Bad move. Arizona could afford to go for Kyler Murry one year after getting burned with Josh Rosen in round one because they had a #1 pick the following year. We wouldn't have that option. We'd have to try 1) drafting a QB project outside the 1st round (which is blasphemous in the eyes of some on this forum), 2)trade for a guy, 3) or sign FA. The latter two aren't popular options with many on this board this offseason. I can't imagine it being any more popular in 2024 or 2025 if this pick doesn't pan out.