SCO96

Your "hired mercenary" opinion is probably spot on for a lot of pro athletes. I would feel the same way if I were a low draft pick trying to cash in bigtime on my 2nd contract. But, if I were already a millionaire (and Tee Higgins already is. He's made over $7mil prior to this season; and will have made $10 mil by the end of 2023 ), I'd want to go out and have fun week in and week out. I couldn't do that if I were playing for a mediocre/bottom tier franchise like Carolina. I'd 25% to 30% less to play for a solid competitor. Millionaires can always find ways to make even more money off of the playing field. But, we all have different ways of viewing things so I'm sure a lot of people on the forum would disagree with my point of view.

I see nothing wrong with the logic expressed in your post. We desperately need a playmaker at WR and help on the O-line. But, Why do you think Tee Higgins, or any top FA in their prime, would want to come play for the Panthers? This franchise has lost a lot of prestige since Tepper took over the team. I can't see a top tier FA viewing Carolina as a desirable landing spot. 5 straight losing seasons prior to 2023. Never had back to back winning seasons in almost 30 years of existence. Terrible front office. Coaching staff(s) seem to struggle developing draft picks after round one. Unless a guy grew up as a Panther fan, or no other team want to play them what they want, why would top FA want sign Carolina?

I was literally getting ready to type your first sentence in a reply to this thread until I saw your post. This is exactly why I have no faith in Fitz as GM going forward. He picked the same type of WR in 2021 with TMJ...who now has permission to seek a trade. We shouldn't be picking JAGS in the 2nd round of the NFL draft at WR when the NFL is becoming more of a passing league every year. I'm not spending a 2nd round pick on a "possession receiver" unless my roster is deep with talent (on both sides of the ball) and I already have two legit players (who can get separation) at the Wideout positions. You can find possession receivers good hands but poor separation on the 3rd day of the draft or even as undrafted FA's.

This is why I don't regret not taking the Rams up on their deal to obtain him for 2 first round draft choices. If we had those choices I wouldn't have any faith that Fitz (or anyone involved in the current front office) to pick the right player. I think we have a major problem with our GM and the scouting department. Scott has shown a tendency to over-value too manyp layers...and this could be due to bad intel from the scouts. We know a GM doesn't have time to do enough college scouting to build the draft board by himself.

The 1999 Rams kind of fall into that category although their HC wasn't "fired". St. Louis won the SB that year with Dick Vermeil as HC and Mike Martz as OC. Vermeil "retired" after the SB win and Mike Martz was promoted to the HC position the same day. Those of us who remember that time will recall that the NFL Insiders were saying that Vermeil was "encouraged" to ride off into the sunset in order to let Martz (the hottest OC in the game at that time) take over the reigns of the "Greatest Show on Turf". In hindsight its obvious that Vermeil was not ready to call it quits. Vermeil returned to coach the Chiefs in 2001 and kept the HC job until 2005. The Chiefs were in the top 5 in total yards from from scrimmage every year he was there. Vermeil left that Rams team in good shape. I've always believed he would have got another SB win with that squad. I don't think Belichick would have outcoached Vermeil the way he outcoached Martz in the Patriots 1st SB win in 2001.

Add a pass catching threat at TE to your scenario and we’d really be in business!

And a receiver that can get separation

I've been saying this all season. All of those guys from the same coaching tree (McVey, Shannahan, McDaniels, LaFleuer, etc ) call rollout/bootleg plays several times a game and they often result in big plays down the field. Our current playbook apparently puts little emphasis on those types of plays. Successful deep passing requires time. Our pass blocking isn't holding up most of the time. If Carolina plans to ride with Bryce, they're going to haver to build a wall of pass blocking lineman in front of him. Even the 2nd string guys will have to above average pass blockers. The interior has to be solidified so he can step up when he's passing from the pocket.

Not trying to to start anything, but let's take a look at our 1st round picks since 2020. 2020 Derrick Brown 2021 Jayce Horn 2022 Ikem Ekwonu 2023 Bryce Young I hated the Brown pick. Good...not great player. If you pick a DT at #6 in the draft he needs to be dominant. He's never really taken over a game. His presence on the field does not make the players around him significantly better. I do think he would be more impactful if he had more talent around him on the D-line. Horn is a great talent...can't stay healthy. No value to us if he's never on the field. We could have had Micah Parsons or a different CB (Patrick Surtain) OK rookie season. Ekwonu has regressed in 2023. He could still turn it around. A lot of us believe he could possibly be an All-Pro talent at guard. Bryce is going to get better. But, he's going to have a limited impact if he can't push the ball downfield. If he had a do-over, I don't think any of us would choose him over Stroud or Richardson. So, if we had extra choices, I'd still be skeptical if the current FO were making the picks. We're missing on top 10-15 picks. You can't do that if you're trying to rebuild a team.

This goes back to Scott and the rest of the FO. We've picked receivers in the 2nd round in 2021 and 2023 and so far we literally have nothing to show for it. If one of those guys was even a legit #2 our offense would be significantly better. I don't see how a GM could go into either one of those drafts and say that TMJ and Mingo were the best players on board (or even the best at their positions) when it was time to turn in the draft card. There is a reason I'm not that upset about not taking the two #1's for Brian Burns that the Rams supposedly offered last year. I have no faith in the FO to pick the right player.

Tua just made a nice completion on a QB bootleg/rollout. Why dont we have a play like that in the playbook for Bryce. It would probably give him a better chance of completing something downfield.

Nothing personal towards Miles, but we didn’t need him this year. We should have kept Donta and kept him paired with Chiba. That money could have been used elsewhere on the roster. Now, we don’t have a big back to lean on on those 4th and short plays now. It looks like Bryce may be on the verge of putting things together. I think he’s gonna look a whole better during the last quarter of this season. He really needs a playmaker to complement Theilan.

To this day I believe Carolina would have beat Denver in SB 50 if Smitty was still with the team that season. He was the missing spark/element that we needed to get over the emotional letdown (that Cam never seemed to recover from) of the sack fumble by Von Miller.

On paper, and at that time, this wasn't a terrible move. Robbie was coming off of a 1,000 yard season. He was playing pretty well under a coach that had worked with him in college. My problem was extending him and then trading down twice in the 2nd round to draft a receiver who has had no major impact on the playing field. We were picking in the mid 30's. After the trade I think we fell to #58. How much playing time was TMJ going to get with DJ and Robbie holding down the #1 and #2 spots? We didn't need a receiver chosen that high in the draft after the extension. We passed on several high caliber lineman in 2021 and ended up picking a JAG at wideout. To make matters worse, the Chiefs picked Creed Humphrey at center in the 2nd round...after the TMJ selection. Carolina could have come out of the the 2021 draft with 2 starters even after the two trade downs if we had taken Humphrey and Christensen in back to back rounds.

I hate saying someone needs to be fired. These are real people with families that will be affected by a sudden job loss. That said, Scott has done nothing to give us hope that this team is going to thrive going forward with him as GM. We've spent 2nd round choices on WR's two of the past 3 seasons (2021, 2023) who have had no significant impact on the playing field. We could have got similar production (and possibly better) from a 3rd or 4th round guy and use the 2nd rounders in those years to address bigger needs. Unfortunately, based on his drafting record he probably wouldn't have used those picks to get the right guys. I can't imagine how sorry this offense would be if we hadn't been able to sign Theilan in the offseason.

Despite their inability to play fast, our esteemed GM took both TMJ and Mingo in round 2 of the draft. I don’t see the value of taking a possession receiver that high in the draft unless that is literally the only think you are lacking on offense. Even then I’d want to use a pick that high to address another need and take that type of receiver later in the draft or try to obtain one thru a trade or free agency (ex: Thelen). A receiver drafted in the 2nd round should be a difference maker on the field and neither of these guys are so far.

I'm not so sure about that. Based on how well the defense played the first two weeks of the season, I think we could have beat the Falcons and Saints to start the season. I don't think Dalton would have thrown those 2 costly picks to the same player in identical circumstances in the Atlanta game. We only needed one more score against the New Orleans to win it or send it into overtime for the the Monday night game. If Bryce hadn't had the sack fumble that resulted in a TD for Minnesota we could have won that game as well. We could be 3-2 or 2-3 at worst if Dalton had started the season. That doesn't mean I think it was a mistake to start the rookie. I think Bryce needs all the reps that he can get to gain experience. None of the 1st four games were blowouts and were winnable with him behind center if he taken better care of the ball the coaches put the team in a better position to score points on offense.

I agree he has done a poor job selecting players the past 3 seasons, but not trading Burns shouldn't factor into the equation. CarolinaRideorDie posted this yesterday. Posted 11 hours ago This is why we are a team devoid of talent! Don't think that this year's draft class is going to be any different! ---- We had 11 picks in the 2021 draft (the year Scott took over). Only 3 have had a significant impact on the team (though the most talented of the bunch has had his promising career marred by injury) 2022 Draft: Ikem Ekwonu, OT, NC State. Jim Dedmon-USA TODAY Sports. ... Matt Corral, QB, Ole Miss. Brad Mills-USA TODAY Sports. ... Brandon Smith, LB, Penn State. AP Photo/Brian Westerholt. ... Amaré Barno, DE, Virginia Tech. ... Cade Mays, OL, Tennessee. Ekwonu hasn't played well this year, but he could be having the dreaded sophomore slump. He has shown glimpses of being a competent starter at time. Corral isn't even in the league anymore. We traded picks to move up to get him and left Sam Howell on the board even though he lasted until the 4th round. Howell has shown signs of being a legit starting QB. 2023 Draft Round 1 | Pick 1 overall (from CHI) Bryce Young, QB, Alabama. Round 2 | Pick 39 overall. Jonathan Mingo, WR, Ole Miss. Round 3 | Pick 80 (from PIT) DJ Johnson, EDGE, Oregon. Round 4, Pick 114 overall. Chandler Zavala, G, NC State. Round 5, Pick 145 overall. Jammie Robinsons, S Florida St. I don't see any sure things in this draft class. We're hoping the first two can pull it together by season's end. We gave away picks for DJ Johnson who has been inactive for several games. People were disappointed with Zavala's play before he got hurt yesterday. I don't even know if Jammie has seen the field this year. It's not looking like this is going to go down as one of the all time best draft classes in Panther history. At this point I wouldn't trust Fitterer if he had 3 #1 draft picks heading into a draft. At least Marty Hurney had a track record of nailing those first round picks. You know, I'm starting to really wonder if our GMs are being fed bad intel by the scouting team.

I see the merits in both arguments We definitely did not think we would be setting up the possibility of Chicago getting two picks inside the top 5 (or even the top 2) when we made the Bryce Young deal. A competent franchise should be able to use their own picks and the additional ones they received from us to build a perennial contender in the NFC for the rest of the decade. Our only source of comfort is the history of the Chicago Bears. They are a mediocre franchise who in all likelihood will not significantly improve with those extra draft choices. And, we should be more concerned with getting Bryce on the right track instead of trying to stick it to the Bears. We gave up a lot to get Bryce. We need to see what he can do since we have to roll with him the next couple of seasons. More playing time should get him better acclimated with: 1) The speed of the game 2) The myriad of pass coverages around the NFL 3) The route running of his receivers 4) The tight passing windows in the league 5) The timing and touch needed to push the ball down the field. A lot of great QB's struggled during their rookie seasons (Bradshaw and Aikman immediately come to mind since both went on to lead dynastic teams in the decade that defined their careers) Bryce has nowhere to go but up in his career trajectory. We need to see what he can do. But, if we can't finish with 6-7 wins by seasons end Tepper may have to make some major changes in the FO and on the coaching staff.

This question is directed to all of you guys upset about not trading Burns last year. If we made that trade, do you honestly believe it would have made us significantly better this season? I see nothing from the current FO to suggest we would have picked the right player with the choice this year or that they would do so with an extra # 1 in 2024. Take a look at our drafts from 2021-2023. How many players have made a significant impact on the team? We consistently trade up or down to pick JAGS (or worse) and pass over great players in the process. We trade away 2nd and 3rd round players who couldn’t start on a contender in the NFL (ex: Darnold and CJ Henderson). The FO has not shown the ability to properly evaluate talent. If I were Tepper there is no way I’d let Fitz trade Burns unless I already knew I’d be bringing in a competent GM to replace him in 2024.

Do you think the Panther realize they are screwed heading into the 2024 draft w/out a #1 pick? Could they be laying the groundwork to justify a trade before the deadline to recoup the lost pick? At this point I don't think Burns would be totally opposed to moving on the greener pastures.

This is why many of us feel that it is very possible that Caleb Williams could opt to stay in school for his senior year rather than take the risk of ending up with a franchise like the Chicago Bears. Unless a contender trades up, Williams will still likely end up on a bad franchise in 2025 if he stays at USC. Still, no franchise in the NFL in the Super Bowl Era (1966-to present day) has a worst history of developing young QB's than Chicago.

Even without Purdy, the 49ers went to a Super Bowl in 2019 with Jimmy G and were a consistent playoff threat with him behind center when he was healthy. SF was good before Purdy joined the team.

Your post was the 3rd one posted after mine. I basically said the same thing before you backed up my post with your chart. Drafting that many non-impact players is an indication that our FO is a poor at evaluating talent or the coaches are unable to get the best out of the players taken in the draft. Something has to change if Tepper sincerely wants to win in this league.