SCO96

I agree. We now have 3 picks in the 5th round. That more than makes up for not having a pick in the 6th round. Ideally we would draft 3 solid contributors in round 5 for 2025. Or, we could package two of those picks to move up into round 4 and get additional pick to go with ours if we see a player we want sliding down the draft board. As you stated, the key is to draft good players! It doesn't matter how many picks you have during the draft if you waste them picking JAGS and/or busts.

I doubt the FO would do it, but they could also franchise him in 2026.

It's hard to be critical of what you just said. Bryce needs to show up in quarters 2 and 3 before the game is out of reach. Had Bryce finished with those same stats and kept our deficit at one score for most of the game I'd think we had something to build one. We couldn't even get close enough to attempt a FG until the game was almost over.

I had an Indy fan come into the office last Friday before the game. He was talking about how inaccurate Richardson was as a passer. He felt that the only thing he's good at is throwing the ball deep. He didn't think he played long enough in college and hasn't learned how to read defenses. I think a lot of those Indy fans are starting to feel like he's going to end up as a bust. What he did on Sunday certainly won't inspire the confidence of his teamamtes.

I had to hop off the boards yesterday so I'm just seeing your post. While I think BY will "NEVER" live up to his draft status, I think your post has made me look a things from a different perspective. I thought he looked better at certain times on Sunday as you pointed out. Still, had the Panthers traded him the day after the game I wouldn't have felt any remorse at all. It doesn't mean I hate the guy. I just want to see the team be competitive and I think BY behind center is a hindrance to that. Now, a small part (very small) of me wonders if we should give him a couple of more starts. I also wonder if there are a couple of things Canales could do to make things easier for him. Pundits said Young was effective moving around in Alabama. I think if we tried to move the pocket several times a game it could help him get some easier completions. I don't think we've tried a flea flicker this season. Why not run a "Philly special" with Bryce in the red zone? Or even in the middle of the field to gain a big chuck of yards. Anything to give the guy a bit of confidence. Other teams seem to have a least one or two plays a game where the route combinations seem to leave a guy running wide open. We never seem to have that and I can't help but wonder if that's a scheme issue. I think BY needs to work harder too. It doesn't look like he's ever had good chemistry with any receiver outside of AT. If I were in his position I'd be throwing to Legette, Coker, and Sanders hours before and hours after practice. I think that 2nd INT would have been a TD had he and Legette practiced that more. The first INT seemed to be a miscommunication that ruined a promising drive. My biggest gripe with Bryce getting more reps is that this hinders the ability of our young skill players to develop. He even hurt the production AT and DJ during those first two games. I'd still be looking for his replacement in 2025 or at least bringing in someone who was a legit threat to take his job while I used the draft to improve the team as a whole. Still, it really would be in all of our best interest (Teppers, BY's, Canales, the fans, etc) if BY could flip the switch and show us something. It would probably be the only time everyone on this board would gladly eat a large plate of crow

No one is saying that Denver wasn't trying. But, the defense wasn't nearly as aggressive at end of the 4th quarter as they were after Carolina scored their first TD (after a turnover on short field). After that score we couldn't even manage one red zone trip or even get close enough to kick a FG. It wasn't all on Bryce. Legette dropped a crucial pass that could have kept us in the game. We also had several bad/ill-timed penalties that killed all of our momentum. Once the score was 28-7 Bryce was able to connect on few good throws. By that time the game was over. I don't care if Bryce picks up over 100 yards thru the air when the game is out of reach. I want to see him keep us competitive for an entire game. He doesn't have the ability to do that. Once the Panthers are down by more than a score its an all but guaranteed loss because the defenses don't have to worry about our QB's ability to pass the ball accurately downfield.

Coker definitely looks like a keeper. He looks impressive despite being on the worst team in the NFL. It’s amazing that this kid was undrafted.

While I think Bryce will never be a successful franchise QB in the NFL, I do think he looked better today. One thing that really hurt his game today were several ill timed penalties and the big drop by Legette on what appeared to be a well orchestrated drive. I thought the first INT was due to a bad throw. I thought the 2nd INT was the result of great play by the CB.

In addition to the above: I'd like to see some type of chemistry with a receiver not named Adam Thielen, who may play this week. AT is clearly his favorite target. If AT finishes with 4 or 5 catches that would be fine if XL, Coker, and DJ are getting multiple targets as well.

I have no problem with moving Johnson. He doesn't want to be here going forward so I'm cool with trading him. I wouldn't want to trade AT if a deal is brokered for Johnson by the deadline for the reason I cited earlier. I hope that clarified my view.

I absolutely agree with the last sentence of your post. I disagree (just a little) with sentence 2. I'd hate to lose AT and DJ in the middle of the season. These guys are established VETS who understand coverages and know how to get open. If we lose both of them before the deadline we would have no veteran presence to help the QBs during the game or help the younger guys develop their games. If AT and DJ are both traded we would probably have the youngest receiving core in the NFL...paired with the worst QB play if somehow Young ends up getting most of the snaps going forward. Unless David Moore becomes a starter, 3 of our starters (Coker, Mingo, and Legette) would have less than 2 years of experience. The Panthers TE corps is among the worst in the league. Scoring points would become harder which is the last thing the team can afford with a defense as poor as ours. If Dalton returns soon I'd like to give him at least one VET to depend on for the next 10 games. FYI: DJ leads the tea with reception yardage: 357. No other player on the team has reached the 200 yard mark for the season thru 7 games.

Yep. But I don't think he'll get to 150. My questions are: "Will Bryce throw a TD pass"? He hasn't thrown one in his last 4 starts. "Will Carolina convert more than 1-2 3rd downs this week with Bryce behind center?" "Will B.Y. complete a pass more than 10 yds down field?"

Or on TMJ, Kerry Colbert, Dwayne Jarret, Devin Funchess...

I have to be a good bit older than you. I grew up in a time where I saw great DT's get 10+ sacks per year. I saw all of the following guys menace QBs from the interior line: Mean Joe Green, Randy White, John Randle, Warren Sapp, Cortez Kennedy, Jerome Brown. These guys would would get near or surpass the 10 sack mark consistently year in and year out. Before them you had guys like Rosey Grier, Bob Lily, Merlin Olsen, and Alan Page...who once won NFL Player of the Year...as a freaking DT tackle! In recent season we've seen guys like Aaron Donald and Fletcher Cox bring terror with their interior pressure. Derrick Brown just signed a 4 year/96 million extension. That's $24 mil per year. He may not get 10 sacks a season. But, is it unreasonable to expect 4 or 5 a year? That's a sack every 3 games. DB may make a lot of tackles in the run game, but this is a PASSING LEAGUE. He set a tackling mark for DTs, but only twice did he tackle a QB in a live game behind the like of scrimmage. He's a good player, but he's being paid like a great/extraordinary player. I personally believe he'd fair better in a 4-3 defense with stud DE on the edge and a complementary player beside him in the trenches.

He wants to stick around because we are the verge of becoming the NFL's next elite franchise by the end of the decade.

A lot us see it from the other point to view. We laugh when people say "trade good players for draft picks". I understand the logic. That might work if you have a shrewd GM and solid scouting department. But you have to draft players that are a sure bet to be equal to or better than the ones you traded. Based on the track record in Carolina for over almost a decade we haven't done that. We traded CMAC, DJ Moore, and Brian Burns to "get more picks". What has that done for us? NOTHING but make us a worse football team. We had the 1st pick in the 2023 the draft and blew it. We've had high choices in the 2nd round and passed on good players (especially O-lineman and D-lineman) to draft the likes of TMJ and Jonathan Mingo. We gave away a 2nd pick to get Sam Darnold than promptly benched him the next year for Baker Mayfield. We gave away a 3rd round pick for CJ Henderson. We have traded away mid round picks to move up and draft Matt Corral and DJ Henderson. With the exception of J. Horn, I don't think Carolina could get a 3rd round choice for anyone they have drafted on the trading block by the 2024 trading deadline.

Carolina really isn't doing anything this season entice potential suitors to come here. I can't see any of these guys saying "It's been my dream to come player for David Tepper and the Panthers" Still, if a player wants to be a starter and aren't good enough to be one on the other 31 teams in the NFL, then Charlotte would be the perfect place to come in make some good money. Here's the big question. How much are these guys worth? Dak is on the top end with $60 mil per season. We know they aren't getting that. But, even a JAG like Daniel Jones is making $40 mil a season. Based on that list to start this thread I'd have reservations even at $25 mil per year. For the record I'd at least consider Jameis. We know he has the physical tools. In the right system he might just get a handle on those turnovers and become a competent QB. I never thought I'd see guy pass for over 5,000 yards & throw 30 TDs and 30 INTs in the same season. That's one of the craziest stat lines I've ever seen. Imagine if he came to Carolina and threw between 25-30 TDs but cut the INTs in half. If Bryce was throwing 25TDs/15INTs, he'd still be starting and most of us would be cool those numbers. In fact, If Bryce's first 5 season were as good as Winston's, he's be well on his way to becoming the most prolific passer in Panther's history.

I'm sorry if my post seemed harsh. That was not my intent. 3rd round picks comprise choices 65-96 (not including the comp choices at the back of the round). In your original post you wrote " The proper way to approach this rebuild is to trade off any player that can net you a 3rd round or higher draft pick (except good o linemen and the one or two good d lineman we have" I was asking you (or anyone for that matter) what player on our roster is worth a "3rd round pick or higher" to another franchise this season? If I were a GM I'd be hard pressed to find one Panther I'd give up a top 100 pick for a player that the franchise was willing to part with.

I could be wrong, but didn't Tepper "influence" Ron Rivera to transition to the 3-4 shortly after he took over the team? I didn't like the idea then and I don't like it now. I know quality 4-3 DE's don't grow on trees. It's hard to find guys who are stout enough to stop the run and quick enough to rush the passer. But, it appears to be just as hard for Carolina to find a 3-man front to stop the run and pressure the QB. Based on his 7 year track record, if Tepper is in favor of something, then the coaches and FO should do the exact opposite. I agree with you. We need to go back to a 4-3. I think D. Brown would be more affective as pass rusher in that scheme.

I think I'd be willing to sign off on a deal if it was one of the first 10 picks in the 3rd round and a conditional late round choice.

Let's look at this from a positive point of view. 1) Our O-line is actually good. All we are really lacking is a "young" and "healthy" player to man the CENTER spot. Injuries have caused our problems in recent games. 2) If Brooks fully recovers we may have a dynamic back for the next 3 years. 3) I think Legette and Sanders have potential. One of the reasons I don't want to see BY behind center is that he'd only stunt their growth because he can't get the ball to anyone more than 10 yards downfield. Coker looks like a keeper. I think Mingo is headed down the same path to obscurity as TMJ. 4) If we had a solid QB our offense would be respectable. No positives on defense. 1) Outside of Horn we have no real threat at DB 2) Our LB's are pretty much a group of JAGs at this point. 3) Our D-line can't stop the run or rush the passer. I don't think we have a healthy player who could start on a contender. I think D. Brown is good but not great. 8 sacks in 4 seasons is pretty lackluster in a passing league. In his defense, I do think he would be better if he had better players around him. That said, I don't think he'd ever be the best player on a GREAT DEFENSE. 4) If we pulled a 2020 Rhule move and spent the entire draft on DEFENSE I wouldn't be too upset. If Brown returned to his 2023 form and If we could find a playmaker at Safety, 1 of the LB spots, a legit pass rusher, and a solid cover CB to complement Horn, our defense could improve in a hurry. I'm sure there are GMs around the NFL who could rebuild this defense in 1-2 seasons. Unfortunately, I don't think our FO is up to the task.

Tell me who on this team is worth a 3rd round pick for another team? Johnson's contract is expiring at season's end. If someone really wants him they can wait until he's hits FA. He's good, but he doesn't make any team a title threat just because he joins the squad. Hubbard is also going to be a FA at the end of the year. Besides, isn't the current thought around the league (and this board) is that RBs are a dime a dozen. They supposedly aren't worth a 2nd contract. Why would anyone trade for Hubbard if RBs are so easy to find in the draft? Outside of possibly Jaycee Horn, who do you think another team is going to be willing to part with a top 100 pick to acquire a player from arguably the worst team in the NFL? I agree with drafting the BPA in every round when your team is terrible (and even in some case when it is good), but when was the last time the Panthers did that? They can't even get it right when they have the first pick in the draft. No series of trades is going to help this team. They need to start drafting well. Unfortunately, I don't think any of us have faith in the FO to do that.

This is the only time you guys will ever hear me say this. I wish Marty Hurney was picking our 1st round player in 2025. Picking 1st round talent was the only thing Marty was actually good at.

Yep. All of these people are yelling "trade, trade, trade". We have nothing of value to trade. If draft picks are so valuable to building a franchise, why would a good GM give away draft picks to acquire talent from one of the worst 5 teams in the NFL? We'd be lucky to get a 3rd round pick for the best player on our roster. Acquiring an extra 3rd (an most likely a lower pick) isn't going to make result in a big roster improvement. As you pointed out bad drafting has caused this. We have traded away a several 1st round picks (CMAC, DJ Moore, and Brian Burns). What do we have to show for it? Our record speaks for itself.