SCO96

I pretty much agree with what Jon Snow said, but I'd like to go a little more into detail. Wade Phillips was famous for running great defenses. He said that ideally everyone would love to run a 4-3. It allows you to rush 4 and drop 7 for coverage. The front 4 must be able to get constant pressure on passing downs and tie up blockers to allow the LB's to flow to the ball on running plays. 4-3 DE's must be big and strong enough to set the edge to defend the run, but also be quick enough to come off of the edge and rush the passer. Phillips said that the ideal 4-3 DE "is hard to come by" and "hard to pay". The DTs must be strong enough to clog running lanes, and also be able to push the pocket on passing plays. It's hard to find a DT who can do both consistently. I may be in the minority, but I think this is a weakness in Derrick Brown's game. He's a great run defender, but I don't think he affects the passing game "enough" when you look at where he was drafted and how much he's making. I'd rather have Kawann Short or Kris Jenkins in their prime over D. Brown. 3-4 DE's are less relied upon in the passing game because the OLB's in the 3-4 contribute to the rush. It's easier to find these type of players (in terms of size) in the draft than the ideal 4-3 DE. You need a stout NT in a 3-4 that can literally tie up 2 blockers in every play and control both A-gaps on running downs. If you don't have that its too easy for your opponent to run the football. The ILBs also have to be bigger/stronger because they take on more blocks from the interior O-lineman...and they still have to be quick enough to help out in pass coverage. Luke Kuechly was a prototypical 4-3 middle LB. I don't think he would have been "as great" as a 3-4 ILB. The 3-4 does cause some problems because you can bring pressure from anywhere, whereas the pressure in a 4-3 is usually gonna come from the front four. Both defenses can work, but you have to have the right personnel and scheme to be consistently successful in the NFL.

I would also like to go to a 4-3 Defense. But, we've been running a 3-4 for years. I recall Ron Rivera running a 4-3 every year thru 2018, Tepper's first year of ownership. The next year we switched to a 3-4. I seem recall reading that Tepper "encouraged" the change in the defensive alignment. We've run that 3-4 ever since.

I may start a thread on this topic to gauge opinions. I agree with you. The defense needs to get better. If we took the best defensive player on the board with every draft pick I don’t think I’d complain at all.

I’m always disappointed when you lose a game where you outplayed the other team for 75% of the game. The game should have never made it to OT. We get there and still have a chance to win…only to literally fumble the game away. That said, I’m proud of the team. Carolina showed no signs of quitting despite having significant injuries and fielding one of the least talented rosters in the NFL. Bryce Young is IMPROVING. He looked awful at the start of the season. Now he looks like a legit starter since the benching. Our 2024 rookie class is the best we’ve had in years. Another strong class could put us in position to compete for division title by 2026…and possibly sooner since we play in one of the weakest divisions. Bryce has to continue to improve. He’s showing more poise, a willingness to push the ball downfield, and better ball placement. Unfortunately, he can’t consistently throw a fade down the sidelines if his life depended on it. That has got to improve going forward. The defense gets gashed on the game too much in the running game and our pass rush doesn’t seem to show up when we need it most. We got to Mahomes last week 5 times but couldn’t get him on the last drive. Baker was able to put together 2 clutch drives to beat us today down the stretch. We have a lot of work today, but for the first time in years I feel like the Carolina Panthers are trending up.

I think we can all agree that one of the most glaring weaknesses on offense is the inability to score TDs once inside the red zone. We’ve outplayed these guys all afternoon and are losing. I’m not gonna cry about losing this game because in the big picture it doesn’t amount to much. We aren’t making the playoffs and a bad record only gives us higher picks in the draft. But, we cannot go into 2025 and expect a significant improvement in the win column if we keep leaving points on the field by settling for FGs. It cost us last week vs the Chiefs and will probably cost us win today because all of the momentum has swung in Tampa’s direction.

No one is saying that Bryce literally can't throw an out route, or even push the ball 40 yards downfield. However, at the NFL level many of passes are lacking the VELOCITY to get the ball to the receiver ahead of good DB. I think we all would agree that BY looked a lot better yesterday. He placement was spot on for most of his down field throws. But, our passing game would be sick if BY could "consistently "connect on a deep post, a deep in-route, or a seam route deep downfield the middle of the field. That said, we're all hoping he builds on his solid performance against the Chiefs. It really would benefit the franchise if he could live up to his draft position and allow us to use the 2025 draft to rebuild the defense.

I wonder how things would have gone for Dalton if he hadn't lost Thielen after the 3rd game of the season. AT may be past his prime in terms of speed, bur he still has his hands and ability to get open. I think his presence was sorely missed after the Raider win. At this stage of his career he is they type of WR QB's like to have as a security blanket. I agree with you on Bryce's arm. As some one pointed out earlier, he still hasn't demonstrated the ability to throw an out route consistently. BY's TD passes tend to come on short passes. Our receiving core this season really hasn't score TD's on explosive plays when he is behind center. I don't know if its possible at this time in his career, but our team would be a lot better if BY could improve his arm strength/throwing power this offseason.

I think they have been ok too, especially when you factor in our anemic pass rush this season. I realize great safetys(sp?) don't grow on trees. But, it sure would be great if we could find a ball-hawking safety to play on the back end. We need the type of player who must be accounted for on every down; the type of guy who make every level of the defense just by being on the field. I feel like Carolina has undervalued the safety position for years. We haven't drafted a safety prior to round 3 since we got Mike Minter in the 2nd round way back in 1997. Take a look at the SB winners since 2000. I 'd say most of the teams have above average to great guys playing at the safety position.

I’m not sold yet, but I was impressed with BY today. He never looked overwhelmed. He could be one of those guys who needs more time than some to adapt to the NFL. If he continues to improve over the season he might just pan out as a competent starter for the Panthers.

I really haven’t watched much NCAA this year. I don’t know how the D-line prospects look for the 2025 draft. After watching this game it’s apparent that we don’t have much in terms of a pass rush despite a couple of sacks today. If the best pass rusher is on the board when we pick we need to grab him.

it seems like no 6'4/260 TE gets tackled as easy in the open field as Ian Thomas. He goes down on first contact LIKE NO OTHER.

I don't believe that this has been posted. If it has I apologize. https://www.derp/2024/11/18/24299579/carolina-panthers-injured-reserve-ian-thomas-amare-barno-caleb-farley The Carolina Panthers have exited the bye week with a handful of roster moves that may have more impact down the stretch than on their Week 12 matchup with the Kansas City Chiefs. The biggest news it that they have placed tight end Ian Thomas on injured reserve again with another calf injury. This one was suffered during the Week 10 win against the New York Giants in Munich. Thomas started two of the five games he appeared in this season, with three receptions for seven yards on six targets. This may be the end of Thomas’s time in the Carolinas as his contract is up after this season and younger athletes like Tommy Tremble and Ja’Tavion Sanders have taken over the tight end rotation. Thomas started two of the five games he appeared in this season, with three receptions for seven yards on six targets. ---- I know KC is tough, but I was hoping we could at keep the game close...or even pull off an upset...with Bryce leading our dynamic passing attack. All of optimism has vanished with yesterday's news. How can we pull off an upset without our most dangerous receiving option on the field? How will the Panthers replace Ian's production this season and everything else that Ian Thomas brings to the table?

I don't foresee Justin Fields ever being an elite QB so I wasn't disappointed when we passed on him in the draft. That said, if Carolina took a swing at him to legitimately compete with Bryce (or replace him) in 2025 while the team spent the draft and FA to rebuild the defense, then I could at least understand the reasoning. If Fields were signed for 3 years at a reasonable price, you could look for a QB in 2026 and groom him to take over by 2027. I also believe Canales would be arguably the best QB coach Fields has had in the NFL if he ended up in Carolina. Ideally, with us having a top 10 pick in 2025 and a 2nd round pick on day 2, a solid QB prospect would fall to us without having to trade away everything like we did to get BY.

I have no idea what our FO will do this off season. I will ask you guys the following question. If you were in Dave Canales' shoes, would you want to bet you future on Bryce Youngs ability to play QB in the NFL? I Wouldn't.

I pretty much agree with you except for on one position missing from the list. A great LB (middle or OLB) can really change a defense. If there's a Luke Kuechly, Patrick Willis, Ray Lewis or Jon Beason is in the top 10 we need to grab them if the best pass rushing DE is off the board. If a Micah Parson or Derek Brooks is sitting there, we need to consider grabbing them too. Players like that have to be accounted for every week. We don't have a LB on our roster like that. Elite LB's make everyone better. However, as you pointed out about the safety position they have to be better than good, they need to be great/exceptional.

That's how I remember it too. He "influenced" Ron Rivera to go that way before he fired him. It was a mistake. As you pointed out, we've never had to right players to effectively run that scheme week in and week out; especially against the better teams in the league.

We just had the # 1 pick in the draft two years ago. We really nailed that one didn't we (sarcasm intended). It doesn't matter where you pick in draft, it's WHO YOU PICK IN THE DRAFT. We have a talent deficit at every position on the defense. I'm not going to be upset if we pick the best defensive player on the board in round one. In fact if we picked up a solid QB at starter via trade or FA for 2024, I wouldn't be upset if we went all defense in the 2025 draft. That way we could have a stacked deck when we if (preferably when) we do find our guy. FYI. Here's a list of every QB taken #1 overall since 2000. Several of these guys had solid careers, but only two have actually won SB's (Manning & Stafford). And Eli was the only one to do it with the team that drafted him. Stafford had to join McVey and Aaron Donald in LA to get his ring. The tanking thing is asinine. A couple of years ago I remember people on the board advocating "tank for Tua", then "tank for Trevor". Good thing we didn't do that. 2023 Bryce Young (Alabama) Carolina Panthers 2021 Trevor Lawrence (Clemson) Jacksonville Jaguars 2020 Joe Burrow (LSU) Cincinnati Bengals 2019 Kyler Murray (Oklahoma) Arizona Cardinals 2018 Baker Mayfield (Oklahoma) Cleveland Browns 2016 Jared Goff (California) St. Louis Rams 2015 Jameis Winston (Florida State) Tampa Bay Buccaneers 2012 Andrew Luck (Stanford) Indianapolis Colts 2011 Cam Newton (Auburn) Carolina Panhers 2010 Sam Bradford (Oklahoma) St. Louis Rams 2009 Matthew Stafford (Georgia) Detroit Lions 2007 JaMarcus Russell (LSU) Oakland Raiders 2005 Alex Smith (Utah) San Francisco 49ers 2004 Eli Manning (Ole Miss) San Diego Chargers 2003 Carson Palmer (USC) Cincinnati Bengals 2002 David Carr (Fresno State) Houston Texans 2001 Michael Vick (Virginia Tech) Atlanta Falcons

BC was a solid pick. I agree that Rhule made a major blunder by not allowing him to play LT initially, which was/is his natural position. I’d love to see him stay but I wouldn’t blame him for wanting to catch a 1-way ticket out of Charlotte. Imagine how things would be in Carolina if the team hadn’t wasted a 2nd round on TMJ at #58 and picked Alabama center Creed Humphrey instead and then nabbed Brady in the next round. We could have been set at RT (Motion), LT, and C for most of the decade then drafted some solid players in the mid rounds to solidify the guard positions on the interior line. With the exception of Moton, all of those guys would still be on their rookie deals and we could have used our draft picks and cap money to build a stronger roster with better talent.

I’m not familiar with this guy, but what you and several others have posted has me intrigued. Rourke is not playing for a traditional NCAA power or a blue blood program. Yet, he’s putting up the numbers and winning games in a power 5 conference. He’s appears to be the type of QB that can do more with less. Those kind of players seem able to adjust to the NFL and succeed. If their NFL team is weak at a couple of areas they just keep chugging along because they never played with stacked teams in their collegiate careers; and they know how to put a team on their backs if they need to. I’ll be keeping my eye on him for the rest of the season. I’d never heard of Brock Purdy until just before he was drafted. I asked a rabid college fan if there was a player who could be a late round steal for Carolina. He said keep your eye on Brock Purdy because he wins games and puts up solid numbers with less talented rosters week in and week out. We see how that has turned out for him and the 49ers.

Thanks for posting this. While this was far from a great performance, this critique shows what some of us noticed last week. Bryce played "a little better". There is some talent there. But, as you pointed out we really don't have a great pass blocking line for dropping back each down when we are behind. BY has got some bad habits and physical limitations. At times his teammates let him down. The play calling isn't always the best. I hope he can learn from last week and show us some improvement in the Saints game.

The data in the below table is somewhat dated. It covers the NFL offensive starters from 2017-2021 by where they were drafted. Interesting data. There are certain positions that usually need to be drafted as high in the first or 2nd round (QB, LT) in order to have a greater likelihood of success. Other positions have a good chance of finding starters even after rounds 1-2. The table below shows that 25% of the guards starting in round in the NFL during that period and 37% of the centers were found on day 3 (rounds 4-7). If you include UDFA those numbers climb to 45% and 53% for those positions. Of course this data doesn't take into account how good these players perform on the field. It only considers the fact that they are starters for their team. I'm going to try and find some information on defensive starters. After seeing the success rates of players taken in round 7, I now see I was justified in trading away those picks away to move up in the draft on the Madden Franchise Mode. According to the below table, UDFAs had a greater chance of starting for a team than players drafted in round 7. https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2022/7/13/23206891/where-was-the-average-nfl-offensive-starter-drafted-by-position OUR 2025 DRAFT PICKS (SO FAR) First round pick Second-round pick (via LA Rams) Third round pick Fourth round pick Fifth round pick Fifth Round pick (via Ravens) Fifth-round pick (via NY Giants) Seventh round pick Seventh-round pick (via 49ers)

Not the janitor! Maybe the scouts and FO, but leave the janitor alone man. He's not the reason our team sucks!