SCO96

I don't see why any legit QB would want to come to the Carolina Panthers in 2022. 1) Our offensive line is among the worst in the NFL. 2)Our offensive scheme has been one of the most predictable and unimaginitive in the league for the past two seasons. 3) Our best offensive player can't stay healthy and is rumored to be on the trading block. 4) We have few draft choices so we won't be able to draft all the players we need or move the picks for players. 5) Our receiving core has 1 legit starter at WR, and he's never had more than 4 TD's in a sesason. 6) And, you can make an argument that we have the worst HC in the league. Most of us on this board, and the pundits in the media, all agree that unless we have a miracle season or at least finish .500, Matt Rhule is pretty much a "dead man walking". He has a 50/50 chance of being fired by mid season. Whoever would come here needs to consider that he'll probably be playing for a new regime in 2023. Why would any good QB want to come here? At Seattle has extra picks to begin a rebuild this offseason and DJ Metcalf lining up at WR.

I just heard about this while listening to Colin Cowherd. If we had not been in such a hurry to move Teddy for Sam Darnold after one season and pick up CJ Henderson (a player we really didn't need), then we could have offered a 2nd and 3rd this offseason and significantly uprade the QB position heading into the 2022 season. Wentz isn't elite, but he's a lot better than anything we've had in Carolina since Cam was in his prime.

I wasn't just referring to Russell Wilson, but to QB's in general. I can't count the number of post on this very board where posters say "You've go to build a winner while you're QB is still on his rookie deal". A great QB is usually better in his late 20's and early 30's than he is between the ages of 22-26. The way the cap and NFL are currently constructed the QB's have less to work with as they get older. Sometimes 4-5 players can take up 50% of the cap space on a 53 man roster. That's ridiculous.

What you say is certainly true. But, it's sad that once a QB hits his prime the less likely he is to win a title due to a lack of quality players and depth on both sides of the ball. You would think it would be easier to win a title as your QB matures, no harder. These mega salaries for QB's have really ruined the game in a lot of aspects after you're unable to keep a solid team because of salary cap issues. But, I guess it doesn't matter as long as the QB gets his money.;

Due to our lack of picks and poor O-line we really couldn't go after him even if we wanted to. But, even if we did have draft capital for the 2022 draft I wouldn't give more than a 4th rounder for him honestly.

I don't disagree with anything in your post. But, this guy had 12 sacks last season. Despite the drop-off in the 2nd half of the year those are still impressive numbers. I don't see how we replace that production if he walks. Outside of Burns, we don't appear to have anyone else on the roster capable of bringing that type of pressure. I wouldn't be surprised to see our defensive ranking dip a bit in 2022. Burns may find himself receiving a lot of extra attention as well. We don't have a lot of picks this year so we can't get a pass rusher in the draft. And, quite frankly this team sucks. I don't think it's going to be easy to lure top FA's at any position to come play in Charlotte. Even if we do get a couple of comp picks, they won't arrive until the 2023 draft. All that said, Reddick ain't worth 17 million a year.

My opinion may be in the minority, but I've never been able to get excited about acquiring comp picks as a Panthers fan. If a guy is able to get a big deal in FA, that at least means that the guy is viewed as a solid starter by a couple of teams in the league. Comp picks are only worth 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th round compensation. Depending on the position, the players picked at the back end of the 3rd round (or later) probably aren't going to be as good as the player that left the team unless you have a player groomed to take their place. You can replace RB's, guards, linebackers, kickers, etc. with 3rd round talent, but it's a lot harder to replace CB's, pass rushers, tackles, QB's. You also need a competent FO to use the properly use the picks. We tend draft guys and don't play them or try to move them to other positions. You also need to have a shrewd scouting department if you intend for the 3-6 round picks to make an impact. Our recent draft history leaves me a bit underwhelmed.

Our record in 2021 was 5-12. We ended the season with 7 game losing streak. We were one of the worst offensive teams in the NFL. I don't find it surprising that we have no players on the top 101 list.

Drew Brees only played in one Super Bowl as well (08-09).

I doubt he'd demand a trade...but only because he's about to start his 5th season. DJ will be a free agent at the end of the season. If he chooses not to resign with Carolina, they'll have to let him leave & pick the team of his choice, or hold him hostage by franchising him in 2023.

In theory I agree with you Kev. But, one (new) player could fix this line in the following scenarios. Let's BC is competent at LT, Deonte Brown becomes a competent RG, Efflein moves over to LG, and Moton remains steady at RT, we could draft Tyler Linderbaum at C and actually improve our line with one player addition. Or, if BC could play LG and Efflein started at center, and the right side of the line works out in the outline above, adding a LT @ # 6 in this year's draft could also improve the line with only one (new) player. But, we'd have to have at least two new starters for 2022 already on the roster. And unfortunately we just don't know that at this time.

I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing that out.

I think DJ is good. I think DJ has the talent to be great. That said, if I were GM and thought he had no interest in resigning after year 5, I'd consider a trade if there was a willing partner willing to give up a 2nd choice...or solid player who could start immediately. I hate to say this, but if I were DJ Moore and had dreams of playing for a winning franchise/playoff contender year in and year out, I couldn't get out of Carolina fast enough.

No I was correct. 2019 (17) + 2020 (16) + 2021 (14) =47. I only counted the past 3 seasons. I left the 2018 season off on purpose because I was trying to illustrate just how bad our QB play had been since Cam was got hurt at the start of 2019, DJ Moore's 2nd season. For the past three seasons, the total TD passes as a team have decreased each season...in a pass happy league

You can't make that assessment based on what you've seen from him in Carolina. Do you know how many passing touchdowns the Panthers had as a team in 2021? Fourteen (14) Take a look at our passing TD's from 2018-2020 2018: 24 (Cam's last good year. DJ only started 10 games that season...and still finished 2nd on the team with 55 receptions) 2019: 17 2020: 16 It's hard to fault DJ for not being a double digit TD guy when Panther QB's struggle to throw double digit touchdowns in a season Tom Brady (age 44) threw for 43 TDs in 2021. That's only 4 less than the Carolina Panthers have thrown as team (47) the past 3 seasons (2019-2021) DJ's 16 TD over that stretch is more 1/3 of our total passing touchdowns.

I see the point you are attempting make. But this needs to be taken into account: DJ has played in arguably the worst QB situation of any of the receivers on the PFF list. Cam didn't finish the 2018 or 2019 seasons as the starter due to injury, so a large portion of his rookie and sophomore campaigns were with back up QB's. The last two seasons (2020 and 2021) he's had to play with Teddy B and Sam Darnold. He's also had to play in offensive schemes overseen by Ron Rivera and Matt Rhule, neither of whom would be considered an offensive masterminds in today's NFL. The fact that he's posted over 1,000 yards in 3 straight years with the guys we've had behind center IMHO is a testament of how good he is & can be. If he actually had a solid QB passing him the ball and a solid OC designing plays for him I think he could be one of the most productive receivers in the league. What type of stats do you think the guys rated ahead of him would have if they'd played in Carolina for the past four seasons?

If DJ Moore is really nothing more than a #2 receiver with replaceable production why does the pro-trade faction on this forum think there's even a trade market for him in the first place? If the above opinion is the mindset around the rest of the NFL, what do you really think the Panthers can expect to as trade compensation if DJ were dealt to another team? The opinions seem to be "DJ's a nice player, but he isn't a #1. He's a #2. Let't trade him and pick up some high draft choices in return". I wouldn't give more than a 3rd draft choice for that type of WR. Would you guys be happy with that?

I think a team with a little offensive talent as the Carolina Panthers had in 2021 would be crazy to trade their best offensive player (sorry CMAC, but you can't seem to stay on the field). However, one thing that needs to be considered is how DJ feels about the situation. Let's say he loves the Charlotte area and wants to be part of the effort to rebuild the team, then I think you need to work on an extension. On the other hand if he has no interest in signing an extension, then you may need to consider a trade instead of letting him leave after his 5th year. Some may feel letting him go is a good way to get a compensation pick. I wouldn't want to run my team with an over reliance on obtaining comp picks. 1) They are never any higher than a late 3rd round choice. 2) The draft is a crapshooter so there's no guarantee additional comp choices will actually make the team better, especially when you have a suspect front office/head coach running the draft. 3) In some years, it may be better to rely on proven FA's to fill roster holes than to rely on unproven picks after the 2nd round. If you knew DJ wanted out after his initial contract, and you had a willing trade partner, you could possibly trade him before his contract expires for a late 2nd/early 3rd round choice and come away with a better player than you would get with a late 3rd round compensation pick. https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-compensatory-pick-projections-for-every-team Take a look at the link above. It tells you which teams are getting picks and the round in which they are available. A few teams are getting 3rd round choices, but most of the choices are coming in rounds 4-7.

Good post. I'm of the opinion that if we'd have had Campen in 2021, the players on the O-line would have been better just by his presence alone

After seeing the beating Joe Burrow took last night I would be inclined to take a top lineman at #6. Rhule screwed us here by not playing BC enough to determine where he should be playing in 2022 (LT, or LG). "If" we knew BC could play LT, I'd take Linderbaum at center. I know some are gonna rail about "positonal value" at #6. But here me out. During the last quarter of the season our main protection issue was up the gut. The interior line was TERRIBLE. You can't allow a QB to take a pass rush right up the gut. Edge protection is vital, but a solid interior will at least allow you to step up to avoid the defensive ends. If the interior line is in shambles, you can't throw the football...period. Aaron Donald took control of the Super Bowl in the 4th quarter. He's a DT and he almost always comes right up the middle. The Bengals lost last night because they couldn't control him. Donald even made the big stop run on the 3rd and 1 that led to the final stop on the next play. A solid prospect like Linderbaum could anchor our line for the rest of the decade. But, we don't know where BC works best so I definitely see the argument for taking a first round LT. However, I can at least see the rationale for taking a QB (Pickett) at 6. If we knew Pickett would be 75% as good as Burrow, I think most of us would agree he's worth the #6 draft choice. He put up some good numbers last year. My biggest complaint with him isn't his hand size or arm strength, but the caliber of his competition. The ACC ain't the SEC! Burrow shows that a great QB makes the entire team better just by being on the field and can "almost overcome" any team deficiency. If Pickett is that type of guy, we could put him out there in 2022 (he can't be that much worse than what we fielded at QB in 2021), get him some experience, and try to have the O-line rebuilt by his sophomore year. PS--Mad props for Burrow (and Roger Staubach). Both guys were beat to death in their Super bowl losses Yet, both QB's still had a chance to win their games on their last game possession despite playing against superior teams.

I highlighted the portion that resonated the most with me. My problem with the Rhule regime is how they evaluate talent. I'd never pass on a player if his arm length is 1 inch shorter than ideal if I had a pressing need at LT. That one inch made them view Slater as a guard? Now Slater is a Pro Bowl LT after his first year in the league. Same thing with BC. Rhule made him the highest O-lineman we've drafted in the two years he's been here with expectation of turning him into a guard, a position he's never played and that doesn't play to his natural ability. TMJ was picked in the 2nd round after Robbie received a contract extension; and despite the fact that the two best centers in the draft still being available at his draft slot. Before that we had already traded down twice and passed on several lineman that could've helped us this year.. Of course we saw how little he contributed this year. I'm still pulling for D. Brown, but I don't know why he was our first pick in the 2020 draft. But, knowing what we know now, we should have picked someone else, or traded down to pick up extra choices. Jeremy Chinn was almost defensive rookie of the year in 2020. He's still a great player, but by moving him farther from the line on scrimmage for most snaps he wasn't nearly as effective/impactful in 2021. Somehow he was convinced that Bridgewater was a big money/potential franchise QB despite never throwing more than 15 TD's in a season prior to 2020. I'm just hoping that the new and more seasoned coaching staff can get the best out of what we have on the roster. These moves were needed, but even these new hires are an indication of how unprepared Matt Rhule was for the NFL. These are the type of moves he should made as soon as he entered the league, not on in your third year after as a major regression in year two.

I think you're spot on here. I had no illusions of us being a contender this year. I was hoping for an 8-9 win season with the expectation that 2022 would be our breakthrough year. This shows you just how bad Rhule has been (so far) with his talent evaluations. We all knew this O-line was not going to be great (although I had no idea it would be as bad as it was in 2021). It's hard to believe that he thought Sam was the missing piece to put a team over the top. I understand the Gilmore deal because we didn't give up much to get him. And, if he leaves this off-season I believe we're eligible for a comp pick. The CJ Henderson pick was a reach. Once again Rhule took another's team discarded 1st round draft choice with the thought that he could succeed with him. Neither Darnold, nor Henderson, had a positive impact on the team last year. Ironically, we could be in a position to significantly improve our team in 2022 if we'd never made those deals. Still, I'm pulling hard for both players and hope they make me eat crow in 2022.

You listed 3 of the most important positions in football. in today's NFL, CB is arguably the 4th most important. If you don't have quality CB's you can't compete in today's pass happy league. As I've stated, I don't think we made a catastrophic decision passing on Fields or Jones. I think picking D. Brown in the 1st round of 2020 was much worse than taking Jaycee in the first round of 2021. Even those who hated the pick will acknowledge that Jaycee is going to be a Pro-Bowl (may be even All-Pro) player if he stays healthy. I haven't seen anything (so far) to indicate Brown will ever reach either of those levels. A DT picked in the top 8 needs to be an immovable force in the run game, a guy who wrecks the pocket, or guy who is good, if not great, at both. I don't think we lose much up front when he isn't on the field. If Brown doesn't break out in year 3 I'd start making plans to replace him. PS--I would've taken Slater at OT BTW

I still don't think we made a major mistake passing on Fields or Jones. Here's are Fields stats from 2021: TD: 7, INT: 10, Yards: 1,870, QBR: 26.5 I realize he didn't start the entire season which has some affect on his output. Still, his TD passes, yardage and QBR each ranked 31st in the NFL. I saw nothing in 2021 to suggest we set our franchise back a DECADE by passing on him. He played for an offensive-minded coach in Matt Nagy last year and still put up pedestrian stats. I doubt he would have done much better with us behind our woeful O-line and in an Joe Brady offense. Now, Nagy is gone and the Bears have hired a defensive-minded head coach, Matt Eberplus. I just don't see that as a good match. I'll regret not drafting Justin Fields after he wins a couple of MVP awards or a Super Bowl. Until then I'll never regret passing on an Ohio State QB. Matt Jones had better numbers since he started most of the season. TD: 22, INT: 13, Yards: 3,801, QBR: 50.9 Those numbers aren't bad at all for a rookie. But, take into account who he played with...The NE Patriots. Belichik is the most successful HC of the Super Bowl era. Matt had a solid OC in Josh McDaniel. The defensive is one of the best in the NFL. The offensive line is always good in New England. Do you guys think he would have been that successful in Carolina with our O-line? Fields at least could have made "some plays" with his legs. Matt Jones would have been beat to death playing with the Panthers in 2021. If we had a solid HC, OC, and O-line heading into 2021, I could see "possibly" taking one of them. Unfortunately, we had none of the above. Those guys dogded a bullet by not coming here. Still, I just don't think in 5 years any of us will be thinking "we'd be a perennial contender if we had taken Fields or Jones in 2021