SCO96

Agreed. I'd have no problem if Eli Manning was enshrined in Canon. The dude beat the most dominant Quarterback/HC duo in NFL history....TWICE. And, both times he did it with by leading game winning drives in the 4th quarter to put the Patriots away. Furthermore, he put up big game performances in NFC title games to get them there by beating the Packers in Lambeau the first time and the 49ers in San Francisco the 2nd time. You cannot tell the history of the NFL without mentioning Eli Manning. He's like Lynn Swann, he played his best in the biggest games.

I don't think the following statement from Bill Parcells pertains to everybody because of the the unglamorous nature of some positions (punter, o-lineman, and even kicker), but I do think it has a strong element of truth for most players "Can you tell the history of the NFL (and I'll add the era in which they played) without mentioning that player?" If the answer is yes, then I can see why a player can be excluded from the Hall of Fame, even if he is a very good player. I think Sam Mills falls into the latter category. If he got in I wouldn't have any objections, but I wouldn't howl in protest if he wasn't enshrined either. Remember, it's the Hall of Fame, and not the Hall of Statistics. Some players in the Hall appear to have mediocre stats compared to modern day players, and sometimes their contemporaries. But, their impact on the NFL game is substantial; and you literally cannot tell the story of the league during the era/decade in which they played that they played without mentioning them. Some feel the Hall of Fame is becoming watered down with too many inductees and at times I can see their point. If there is a dispute about them being a candidate, then that alone may answer the question if they really deserve to be there. At the same time, I agree that some players waited too long to get in, and some deserving players are still being excluded. I'm glad that I don't have too vote on these things.

Good news indeed. Now we have at least one position solidified on the Offensive line for the immediate future. I just clicked a few minutes ago and saw your thread. Is he still playing under the tag figure in 2021 and receiving a 4 year extension running thru 2025, or does the new deal only cover 2021-2024.

Apparently, the Panthers weren't sold on Fields (and for the record a lot of us on this forum weren't either). I had no problem passing on him. I just can't see a QB from Ohio State (a college known for producing below average QB's's in the NFL) lighting up the league in Chicago ( a pro franchise known for producing below average QB's in the NFL). Our secondary was terrible last year and our Oline was average at best. Drafting a stud at LT or at CB were good choices at our position in the draft. If we had drafted a sure starter at LT in round 2 we'd be in good shape. We could sign Moton. By the time the LT contract was up/and or due for an extension in 3-4 years, Moton would likely have received all of his guaranteed money and we'd be in as position to let him walk if needed.

That sounds about right to me. If Julio was 27-28, I wouldn't think twice about giving up a #1 pick for him if were the final piece for title contending team. 1st rounders get four years plus the fifth year option. I doubt you'd find a receiver coming out of college who would be "more productive" than Jones was from age 27-32. Players are playing longer these days, but Jones is on the other side of 30 and last year's injury plagued season could be a sign of things to come. Still, I doubt any second round player is going to have as much impact on offense than a healthy Jones over the next couple of seasons. A team that is one or two playmakers away from contending should consider adding him if they have a competent QB and the cap space to sign him.

QB's get too much credit when teams win and too much blame win they lose. In football, no player can do it alone, including the QB. Most of the great QB's played with Hall of Fame talent, or at minimum well constructed teams with above average/Pro bowl players on both sides of the ball. That's why Aaron Rodgers can't get back to a Super Bowl now. He's physically more talented overall than Bradshaw or Aikman, but his teams don't have enough depth to win the big game. Bradshaw and Aikman were both blessed by having several years to mature while the coaches and front offices shrewdly constructed their teams via the draft.

Take a look at the two guys with the worst TD/INT ratios: Bradshaw (-17) and Aikman (-15). These two guys ended their careers with a combined record of 7-0 in the Super Bowl. Both started their careers with teams at bottom of the league. By the end of their 5th seasons they were quarterbacking two of the greatest dynasties in NFL history.

I know draft slots are practically meaningless with Scott "the mad trader" moving draft choices like chess pieces. But, I think we have all of our choices next season except the #2. We got back the 2022 #4 we lost to NY from the Houston deal this year, so we should go into the off season with 6 draft picks. Teams rarely give up #1 and # 2 choices in the same year. If we had a strong option for QB next year, we should be able to package something "reasonable " to move up and take a shot (ex: 1,3 in 2022, and #2, #4 2023) depending on where we were on the draft board.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are making a big assumption that Justin Fields or Mac Jones will be franchise QB's. Based on their school pedigree, both have a greater chance of being bad to average than true "franchise QB's". I just can't see us all looking back on this draft 5 years for now saying, "We missed out on franchise greatness when passed on Fields and/or Jones in the 2021 draft. I know the same can be said of Darnold after the failed experience in NY, but that CB selection was exactly what we needed in a division where we face Michael Thomas, Chris Godwin, Mike Evans, Julio Jones, Calvin Ridley, and now Kyle Pitts twice a year. Besides, I don't see any of the QB's selected after Horn at #8 significantly outplaying Darnold this year. We got enough draft capital to move up next year if we need to take a QB or trade for one, and whoever we would be getting is going to be in lot better situation than Bridgewater was when he came to the team.

I'm very pleased with how our draft turned out. That said, I was upset when Cosmi came off the board at pick #51. I was ready to throw a shoe at my TV when Radunz was chosen at #53. I wasn't familiar with Christensen at all. He wasn't considered one of the top 5 LT's in the class so I didn't read up on him. I didn't know what to think about his selection. I was pleased to find out that PFF actually gave him the highest pass blocking grade of any of the LT's in the 2021 class. His excellent athletic abiliity is another positive. I look forward to seeing him this fall.

Just out of curiosity, how do you guys think Sewell felt when the Lions chose him? I don't have any insight about this young man at all, but I don't see how any top 10 pick could be thrilled about going to the Detroit Lions. We haven't put together back to back winning seasons in our 25+ year existence, but we have been to TWO Superbowls and on two other occasions we fell one game short (1996) and (2005) since 1995. Detroit last won a world title in 1957 with Bobby Lane as the QB. The Lions have only appeared in one NFC title game (a 1991 defeat to the eventual SB champs Washington Redskins...oops...football team). Detroit has one exactly one playoff win in the last 63 seasons, a 38-6 win in 1991 over Dallas in the divisional playoff. Being selected by the Detroit Lions is almost a guarantee that you will never win a playoff game, much less make it to the Super Bowl. I wonder if he was hoping to make to the Panther on the 8th pick?

That kid does not move like a normal 313 pound man. He's going to be a nightmare for opposing teams if he plays like this on the NFL level. He could actually end up making things easier for Derrick Brown (or all of our d-lineman for that matter) . If he becomes the next Warren Sapp or John Randle he'll start drawing more of the double teams and free things up for the other guys.

Thank you for posting that. I found that article to be an informative read. I look forward to watching this guy in action this fall. An effective 3Technique pass rusher could take the team defense to another level.

If you study the trajectory of any NFL champion you'll usually tend to see 2 trends. 1) A coach comes in and get an underachiever over the hump 2) A coach comes with a losing record for the first couple of years and wins the Super Bowl between years 3-5. I've outlined Dallas' history already. Their rise to excellence eerily resembles the rise of the 70's Steelers. a) Chuck Noll was 1-13 in 1969. By 1975 the Steelers were back to back champions b)Noll used his drafts to build a devastating defense . Playmakers were at each level. Jack Ham (OLB) once said "we had no weakeness on our defense". That was the straight up truth for those 70's Steelers teams. Jack Lambert (MLB) and Donnie Shell (S) were the 1974 additions that put them over the top. These two positions are ironically what we need to be addressed in Carolina. c) His talented 1st round QB (Bradshaw) stuggled early in his career. He was viewed as a bust and was even booed by the home crowd. He lost his starting job to Joe Gilliam, a black QB in early 1974, when there were hardly ANY black QB's in the NFL. Once everything fell into place for him and he recaptured his starting job Bradshaw won 4 superbowls between 1974-1979 d) Playmakers everywere on offense. Lynn Swann once said (paraphrasing)"every team needs a guy who wants the ball in crunch time. On offense we had 4-5 guy like that". The 90's Cowboys had several of the guys (Irvin, Smith, Harper, Novacek, Moose Johnson). Our current roster is starting to look the same way. e) The Steelers had an awesome, but unheralded offensive line. You can't make the playoffs every year from 1972-1979 with scrubbs blocking up front. Yet, only Mike Webster made the Hall of Fame. Dallas had a great O-line in the 1990s. Only Larry Allen made the Hall of Fame...and he wasn't a starter on JJ's 1992/1993 Cowboy O-lines. He joined the team in 1994 after after JJ was fired. Our O-line is starting to shape up nicely. The 1990's Cowboys followed the above script almost to tee in hindsight. Had JJ not been fired, the Cowboys could have equaled...or even surpassed 4 SB wins in the 1990's. The 70's Steelers and 90's Cowboys followed similiar roadmaps in building their football dynasties. The Panthers "seem to be" following a similar template. It'll be interesting to see if history repeats itself in the Carolinas over the next couple of seasons. Don't be surprised if Matt Rhule is being carried off the field after winning A SB somewhere between 2023-2025.

Darnold and the O-line are the key. If were are successful on these two fronts the future looks bright. Here's the one thing I admire about how we handled the situation. "If " Sam fails, we still have plenty of draft capital to trade for a better QB or pick a promising draft prospect. If you look at our roster as presently constructed, this would be a desireable place to place for any QB to play. If I'm not mistaken, aren't we going to have one of the highest cap spaces heading into the 2022 season? We should be able to absorb almost any QB salary next season.

Thank you for the correction. I meant to say he hasn't won. Sorry about that. Ironcially a guy from the Seattle FO that helped build those back to back conference winning team is calling the shots in Carolina. If he could repeat that here I think we could all live with that...but I want more...

You correct sir. But let's remember Jimmy Johnson and the Dallas Cowboys were 1-15 that first year. The next year they were 7-9. By year three they were 11-5 and in the playoffs. The won the Super Bowl back to back in 1992-1993 with regular season records of 13-3 and 12-4. We were 5-11 in Matt's first year. Eight of those loses were by 8 points or less. Tampa spanked us pretty good both times they played us but their 7 time SB winning QB won't be around too much longer. New Orleans got us pretty good to end the season, but Brees is GONE now. I'm not too afraid of any other Saint QB lighting us up the way Drew used to year in and year out. Matty Ice is always a problem but he isn't quite as good as the former two QB's. I respect him, but I don't fear him. We were a lot more competive in general than Dallas was in JJ's first year.

It's way to early to say we are gonna win 3 superbowls in 4 years, but I'm getting a deja vu feeling about the Carolina Panthers. This is quite long, bit hear me out. We have a new /charismatic/somewhat eccentric owner who is desperate to win. He seems more excited talking to his new draftees on draft day than making money (Who does that sound like?) We have a young HC who just left the collegiate ranks and replaced the most successful HC in the franchises history.(Our previous coach was HC of the year twice in case you have forgotten...2013 and 2015...and the only guy to get us in the postseason 3 years in a row). Rhule was successful at different college programs...just like Jimmy Johnson. He's well acquainted with all the talent in NCAA and is able to find talent in all over the draft and among the undrafted guys. I don't think it's a coincidence that Matt Rhule even spent some time this off-season on Jimmy's fishing boat to pick his brain. Our GM loves playing chess on draft day. Jimmy Johnson( HC/GM on those 89-93 Cowboy teams) did as well and had some stellar drafts to build the championship foundation. A special emphasis was placed on building a fast/athletic defense and a powerful offensive line with a large number of draft choices. Rhule had a losing season out of the gate (just like JJ), but it was obvious from day 1 that his guys play hard for him. Like Johnson, the team immediately improved on paper heading into year 2 with a very strong draft class. The team had a great OC (Norv Turner) who quickly became a sought after candidate for a head coaching position (Joe Brady anyone?) The QB who led the team, Troy Aikman, had a bumpy ride the first couple of years in the NFL. Don't forget he was 1-15 his first year. At one time he was benched for Steve Walsh (I bet most of you guys forgot that). He appeared to be a 1st round pick who wouldn't live up to his draft slot. Does that sound like anyone on our team? Once all the pieces were in place, Aikman put things together in a hurry. Tom Brady is still QB I fear the most in the NFC but he's almost 45. Russell Wilson is great. Aaron Rodgers is the most physically talented guy in the conference. But neither of those guys have been able to make it back to a Super Bowl since their lone championship win. And, both guys appear to literally hate their front offices and would leave in a heartbeat if the right opportunity arose. Besides those three What other QBs in the NFC do you actually fear? The best young QBs are in the AFC now ( Allen, Jackson, Mahomes. Herbert, Mayfield, Burrows, Watson) What does all of this mean? Perhaps nothing. But as the saying goes "history tends to repeat itself" I think this Carolina will be a playoff team by 2022, if not next year, and the dominant team NFC by the middle of the decade. Thoughts?

KC is serious about rebuilding that offensive line. The Super Bowl showed us first hand what happens to even the best QBs when he doesn't have protection. I hope we don't regret letting a couple of good O-line prospects slip by because of the trade backs.

This is why trading back can backfire at times. You plan to get a guy at a certain spot and right before you get on the clock another team nabs him. But, there are 31 other teams in the league. If you like a guy, chances are one of the other front offices around the league will feel the same way.

If we could do that to pick up an extra 2nd round choice that would be nice.

I agree with you...but I can understand if we took Barmore. He had 8 sacks last year as an interior d-lineman. That's a lot for a DT. You put him next to Derrick Brown as our 3 technique pass rusher and we could end up with the best pash rush in the NFC South.

Anything possible, but I don't think we have to worry about that. In our lifetimes the Chicago Bears have NEVER produced a superstar/franchise quarterback. Just take a look at their history since the superbowl era began in 1966. In our lifetimes, the OHiO State Buckeyes have NEVER produced a superstar/franchise quarterback. The coach/gm combo of Matt Nagy and Ryan Pace doesn't send the proverbial chills up my spine. If Fields doesn't become a baller, both of those guys will be out of a job by 2025...possibly sooner. If history shows us anything, Fields went to a franchise where QB go to die. If ...or more likely when...Nagy and Pace are fired Fields will be shown the door for Chicago's next "franchise" QB to repeat the cycle. PS...I actually want Fields to succeed in Chicago. It'd be nice to see Chicago finally draft a good QB. I just hope he's less successful than Sam Darnold or whoever the Panthers have behind center while he's playing there.

Great comment. Some people on this board seem to under the impression that getting a QB in the top 10 of the 2021 draft was the only way the Panthers could be successful for the rest of the decade. 1) As some have pointed there's no guarantee Fields (or any of these guys) are going to be championship winners in the NFL. 2) We have drafts every year. We can get a QB in 2022. Some are saying "next year's class sucks!". It's too early to say that. Zach Wilson didn't become a top prospect until his last season. Joe Burrow didn't set the world on fire until his final collegiate season. Mac Jones wasn't a first round prospect before 2020. Chances are a couple of good QBs will be in the 2022 draft class...and unlike some teams that have traded away all of their high choices we'll have first round choice next year if we need to pick a QB. 3) This team is young and a lot better than our 5-11 record indicates. A strong draft in 2021 should makes us better and a more desirable place for a QB that we could obtain via free agency or trade.

One of these guys will be available when we pick at 39. https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft/bestavailable Trevon Moehrig (Safety) 1 POS RK 17 OVR RK 90 GRADE Moehrig excelled in a Cover 4 heavy scheme at TCU that frequently left him on an island working against slot receivers. He's a playmaker who shows good burst breaking on the ball and good timing breaking up passes. He's an above-average open-field tackler. Moehrig was voted TCU's Special Teams Most Valuable Player by his teammates in 2018. -- Steve Muench Andre Cisco (Safety) 2 POS RK 50 OVR RK 82 GRADE Pre-Draft Analysis Cisco is an interchangeable safety with a blend of size, length and range. He's a ball hawk and natural hands catcher. He appeared to make strides as a tackler on 2020 tape, but it's still a concern. -- Steve Muench Richie Grant (Safety) 3 POS RK 53 OVR RK 82 GRADE Pre-Draft Analysis Grant is undersized with good instincts, long arms and average top-end speed. He doesn't catch everything he gets his hands on, but he's a playmaker who tracks the ball well and picked off 10 passes in college. He's a solid tackler and a tough run-stopper who does not shy away from contact. -- Steve Muench