SCO96

I wonder if the Saints would take Matt Rhule, Sam Darnold, Cam Erving, and John Miller as compensation if we went after Payton?

I've always felt Brady always seems to have the ball bounce his way as they say. After seeing this video and reading some articles online I began to think "Could something else be going on here"

"Maybe it's time to leave the NFC North Aaron and come to the NFC South. Look what this guy said about you on facebook: Aaron Rodgers is learning what George McCaskey knows all too well... Owning the Bears doesn't get you much in the playoffs

This guy seems to have no impact on the passing game. We already have a starter at DT who has no significant impact on the passing game...Derrick Brown. We don't need to waste a high pick on another one unless he slips to the 5th or 6th round and is the best available player on the board.

If I had players on the team capable of replacing them with no (or little) drop-off, and the rest of the roster was solid across the board, then I think I'd do it. None of the guys you mentioned are irreplaceable. However, if would have to be for an established guy (ex: Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Deshaun Watson...before assault allegations). I wouldn't trade those guys to draft a rookie ...unless...He was a generational QB...and even then I'd be hesitant.

KillaCam is saying that the Rams have been one of the NFL's better teams over the past 5 seasons. If they win their next two games they could represent the NFC in the Super Bowl. That's impressive without any first round picks for nearly half a decade. But, they've got to win while the window is open. Not having those picks is ultimately going to catch up to them. They've got to win in the next 2-3 seasons to justify the moves.

I came up with this question after thinking about the drama that surrounded 3 of the best QB's in the league prior to the 2021 season. Deshaun Watson, Russel Wilson, and Aaron Rodgers all expressed interest in leaving their teams. The first two had no clear successor to replace them. But this past draft was supposedly full of 1st round prospects. A team could have let them go and picked a QB from the 2021 draft class with the extra picks. The Packers moved up to get Jordan Love a couple of seasons to go. If they were convinced that Jordan Love could be as effective replacing Rodgers as Rodgers was replacing Brett Favre, I could see Green Bay letting Rodgers go for three 1st round picks in the same year...but only if they had a franchise QB sitting on the bench (which in reality they do not).

You'd be swapping places with a team and giving them the 2 extra picks in the first round. The scenario I envisioned would allow you to keep your picks in rounds 2-7, so the line could be addressed during the rest of the draft; or in free agency. I also said "if your team were one QB away" from contending.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/18/2022-nfl-draft-order-eagles-hold-15th-16th-and-19th-overall-picks/ As you can see from the above link, Philly has 3 draft choices between picks 10 and 20. I don't think the Eagles are going to do anything drastic at QB this year. But, if you were the GM for the Panthers (or any team for that matter) and your franchise was a QB away from being a legitimate Super Bowl threat would you consider the making the following move(s)? 1) Trade all three #1 draft choices in one year to either move up in the draft to pick a stud QB? 2) Trade all three #1 draft choices in one year to acquire a stud QB in a blockbuster trade? And, If you were a GM for a team would you 1) Accept three #1 picks for a team to move up into your spot the draft? 2) Accept three #1 picks to trade a player you were looking to move? ------- San Francisco gave up a ton to get Trey Lance. The details are below. "The Niners essentially placed their future in Lance's hands, sending three first-round picks to Miami for the right to select the dynamic, dual-threat quarterback. San Francisco doesn't have a first-round pick until 2024 and is also out a third-rounder in 2022." ------ I could see doing this if you were only a QB away from contending for a title. The player you picked or traded for would in essence be your #1 pick and the other draft choices in later rounds would be intact. I couldn't see parting with any picks the following draft. I could see doing it as a GM if there was a strong draft class that season. You could pick 3 blue chip players and pretty much control them for 5 seasons. If the picks were solid, a team could significantly better in a hurry. Thoughts?

Let this sink in, Cousins threw more TD's last year than the Panthers have thrown as team the past two seasons. Our rebuild is a year behind after the disastrous 2021 season. Our problems won't be solved by drafting any of the available QB's in the first round of this years draft If we did get Cousins, then he could hold things down for the next couple of seasons as we address our weak areas (O-line, LB, S, run stoppers)this off-season. We could then afford to go all in for a QB during the 2023 draft and have someone ready to replace him round 2024-2025. I'm just curious as to what type of compensation that Vikings would want in return for a trade.

I'm glad you posted the full quote to give better context to the statement. I also agree that this probably the exact type of coach Darnold needs if there is any chance of him ever elevating his game.

In your post you used the phrase "if you think you have the opportunity to draft a QB that you feel good about you take it. ". What if you don't feel good about the QB options available in the top 10? Should you take one anyway just to get a "franchise QB in round 1? If you pick a guy in round 1 out of desperation and miss on him, the team will be set back even further. Besides, does anyone on this board really want Matt Rhule to pick a QB to lead this team for the rest of the decade? Unless something drastically change , Rhule won't be here after the 2022 season. The new coach and his staff should be one to select a franshise QB.

Ironically, neither of the first three were the best QB’S of their respective eras. Elway was a great QB, but he wasn’t he best QB of the 1980s or 1990s. You can make an argument that he wasn’t the best QB in the class of 1983 (Jim Kelly and Dan Marino were just as good). That era was dominated Montana and Aikman. Elway was physically more talented than both, but they had much stronger teams around them, If not for Terrell Davis leading the way with a devastating running game in 1997-1998, Elway probably would have retired without a ring. He was 0-3 in superbowls until the last 2 years of his career. Each loss was worse than the one that preceded it. Manning was a great QB and great for the NFL. He’s not the most heralded QB of his era. Tom Brady was/is. Even Drew Brees deserves honorable mention. Brees beat Manning head to head in a Super Bowl, and statistically he was better than Manning and Brady from 2009-2013 a period in which neither won a title. Andrew Luck had to retire early because of chronic injuries. Why was he hurt so much? He played behind a crappy Oline for most of his career. By the time they got the line fixed in Indy, Luck’s body had broken down. Does this sound familiar. Poor lines have hurt our QBs too ( Cam after the 2017 season …and even Darnold this year). And, even when he played, other QBs in the league was just as good (Manning, Brady, Brees, Big Ben, Russel Wilson, etc) Trevor’s just starting his NFL journey, but if history repeats itself, there’s a strong chance that he won’t be remembered as the best QB of his era either

What is more troubling to me than taking Horn with our first pick was the failure to improve the line with our 2nd draft pick (#39). We traded down from 39 to 52 with Chicago. Than from 52 to 59 with Cleveland to take a WR who finished the season with 17 catches. To this day I don't understand the pick. Both of our wideouts went over a 1,000 yards in 2020. Click on the link below and and adjust the settings to 2nd round/OL lineman taken. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/draft-tracker/ We had a shot at every player on the board except pick #37 (Landon Dickerson went to the Eagles). We didn't need a RT, but we definitely had a chance at some solid interior lineman and maybe even a LT. The two best centers on the draft board were taken after we picked TMJ. I know we picked up some FA lineman prior to the draft, so the team probably thought they had addressed the problem. This is what is so discouraging. Rhule and company don't seem to evaluate player at critical positions very well and it show up on the field during games.

I know a lot of people were upset we didn’t get Slater. I was ok with Jaycee, but I understand the point of view What bothers me was the 2nd round trade downs. We could have taken the best lineman on the board in round 2 but ended up with receiver who caught 17 passes. We passed on about 5 tackles and 3 interior lineman. Then to make matters worse the best center on the board came off after our pick. Did these guys not meet his physical requirements? Was he just following their draft board? Either way we lost an opportunity to improve early in round 2 but blew it. I’d have loved to hear him answer that question.

I understand the need to have versatile lineman on the roster for depth and injury reasons. But, those are the type of guys you need to have on the team primarily as backups. Someone goes down, use a versatile lineman to keep things together. Your starters need to be above average at all 5 line spots. An offensive line is only as strong as it's weakest link. Rhule's who mindset is strange. He drafts a LT with the intention of turning him into a LG. If you wanted a LG in the 3rd round then you should have drafted one. Deonte Brown is a RG who supposedly couldn't see the field because of conditioning issues. Rhule is now saying that he may be moved to Center, a position where he may end up playing more snaps than any other position on the line. If you wanted a center you should of drafted a center in round 2. Creed Humphrey was the best center in the draft and he came off the board minutes after we picked Terrace Marshall Jr, a receiver we really didn't need based on his lack of production and playing time this past season. If Deonte to become a great center, then I'd be ecstatic. But, what is he going to do at RG? I don't think we have the answer on the roster. And, Carolina's brilliant trade strategies have left short of draft choices. I just have a bad feeling that we're just going to get more of the same come draft time.

If I were a GM, there's no way I'm going to pass on a good to excellent player because he's an inch too short in height(or his arms are an inch too short in length our case). If he can play well enough to be a difference maker on the team than I'd pick him. The Dallas Cowboys were notorious for this back in the Gil Brant/Tex Schram/Tom Landry era. According to the legend, a college coach from Baylor (a Texas University) personally talked to Landry about drafting his star middle linebacker, who was the best LB in the country the last two years of his collegiate career. Landry wouldn't draft the guy despite his excellent on-the-field play. Back then the Cowboys wouldn't draft a linebacker if he wasn't 6 feet tall. Years later this story was confirmed by Cowboy personnel director Gil Brandt when he talked to the guy they passed over in the draft...HALL OF FAME MLB MIKE SINGLETARY, whose childhood dream was to play for his beloved Cowboys. Singletary was only 5'11, therefore that made him an unacceptable draft choice for America's Team.

I heard rumblings about this. You think there's a chance of that actually happening?

If Linderbaum is as good as advertised we need to grab him. A great center makes the entire line better. I didn't even consider using Elflein at LG to start the season (or even for the whole year if he plays well) while another player is groomed. That really could work, especially if Deonte could hold up at RG. I just looked at SPOTRAC and noticed that Norwell is only 30. I wonder if he'd ever consider coming back to Carolina? Thing is, the coaches and front office executives he's familiar with are all in Buffalo and Washington now. I think he'd consider them over us, especially seeing how much the franchise has fallen off since he was last here.

We have less than $25 million in cap space...and part of that needs to be set aside for our rookie class. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cap/ We don't "lots and lots of money" to pay anyone. And even if we did, we're not the only team who has money to bid on a FA lineman's service this off-season. A lot of other teams are in a better position to offer more money than we could. Plus, we have some FA's that must be paid "if" we want to retain them (Gilmore, Jackson, Reddick) Rhule came here to establish a winning culture and end what Tepper called "sustained mediocrity". The culture here is worse than before they arrived. We've had three straight 5-win seasons. That's worse than sustained mediocrity. And the trades we made in 2021 may set us back even more. I'm telling you, if people have their hopes up of fixing the O-line by signing one or two of the top FA lineman this off-season I expect them to be sorely disappointed.

I agree with everything you said in paragraph 2. You're overly optimistic in paragraph 1. It amazes me that so many people think Carolina is a desirable destination for highly ranked FA offensive lineman. Way too many posters keep saying we can fix the line thru free agency. Well, we're not the only team attempting to upgrade their line this off-season. We are on of the five or sixth worst teams in the NFL with all of the problems you clearly outlined in paragraph two. I don't think ANY good to great lineman would even consider coming here, and the last thing we need are mediocre lineman. Then again mediocre might be an upgrade at the guard and center positions.

Trade with what? We don't have a 2nd or 3rd to offer with our first this year. Which means we'd have to mortgage away most, if not all, of our high picks over the next two season...meaning we won't be able to use the draft to fix the woeful offensive line

I think Russell Wilson is great, but poor roster management and his head coach are holding him back. Why would he come to Charlotte to play under a GM construct the roster that underachieved in Seattle? Wilson’s line in Seattle has been at best mediocre for years. At the current time ours is even worse. MacCaffrey can’t stay on the field. Touting him as a reason to come play for the Panthers isn’t going to be a major selling point. We have one good receiver in DJ Moore. He could start on half of the teams in the NFL. Who else on the roster can we say that about? Wilson is married to Ciara, a B\C level celebrity. I don’t see her getting excited about moving to Charlotte. I can’t even fathom him coming here…but I admit if he did it would get fans excited and make us better overnight.

I agree. You know our organization is in really bad shape when adding Kurt Cousins to your roster as the franchise quarterback is a significant improvement to the position and would be universally applauded by a majority of Panther fans.

This sounds good on paper, but it highly unlikely to occur. An awful lot has to go right for this to work. When a franchise is as bad as Carolina you just can’t assume you can plug a major hole with a FA and here’s why. There’s no guarantee the available FA you target will want to come here. You’re entire scenario depends on two FA’s leaving their playoff bound teams and coaches (Belichik and McVey) to come play for MATT RHULE. . It ain’t happening . Those teams may want those guys back for one. And two, 30 other teams may want a shot at them. Why would they willingly want to play for the 5th or 6th worst team in the NFL if there are better options availabile? Then, you’re assuming Denver wants to trade up for a QB. What if Denver (or another team) thinks the price is too steep or they think this years’s QB class is weak? If no team wants to trade up then what? If someone wants to make a deal, then great. But, we need to go into the draft with the mindset of maximizing our available picks. There is no guarantee we’ll be able to acquire extra draft choices. We also need to seriously look at the small schools and under the radar players and hope to find on or two gems among the Undrafted free agents…and even the waiver wire.