SCO96

I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing that out.

I think DJ is good. I think DJ has the talent to be great. That said, if I were GM and thought he had no interest in resigning after year 5, I'd consider a trade if there was a willing partner willing to give up a 2nd choice...or solid player who could start immediately. I hate to say this, but if I were DJ Moore and had dreams of playing for a winning franchise/playoff contender year in and year out, I couldn't get out of Carolina fast enough.

No I was correct. 2019 (17) + 2020 (16) + 2021 (14) =47. I only counted the past 3 seasons. I left the 2018 season off on purpose because I was trying to illustrate just how bad our QB play had been since Cam was got hurt at the start of 2019, DJ Moore's 2nd season. For the past three seasons, the total TD passes as a team have decreased each season...in a pass happy league

You can't make that assessment based on what you've seen from him in Carolina. Do you know how many passing touchdowns the Panthers had as a team in 2021? Fourteen (14) Take a look at our passing TD's from 2018-2020 2018: 24 (Cam's last good year. DJ only started 10 games that season...and still finished 2nd on the team with 55 receptions) 2019: 17 2020: 16 It's hard to fault DJ for not being a double digit TD guy when Panther QB's struggle to throw double digit touchdowns in a season Tom Brady (age 44) threw for 43 TDs in 2021. That's only 4 less than the Carolina Panthers have thrown as team (47) the past 3 seasons (2019-2021) DJ's 16 TD over that stretch is more 1/3 of our total passing touchdowns.

I see the point you are attempting make. But this needs to be taken into account: DJ has played in arguably the worst QB situation of any of the receivers on the PFF list. Cam didn't finish the 2018 or 2019 seasons as the starter due to injury, so a large portion of his rookie and sophomore campaigns were with back up QB's. The last two seasons (2020 and 2021) he's had to play with Teddy B and Sam Darnold. He's also had to play in offensive schemes overseen by Ron Rivera and Matt Rhule, neither of whom would be considered an offensive masterminds in today's NFL. The fact that he's posted over 1,000 yards in 3 straight years with the guys we've had behind center IMHO is a testament of how good he is & can be. If he actually had a solid QB passing him the ball and a solid OC designing plays for him I think he could be one of the most productive receivers in the league. What type of stats do you think the guys rated ahead of him would have if they'd played in Carolina for the past four seasons?

If DJ Moore is really nothing more than a #2 receiver with replaceable production why does the pro-trade faction on this forum think there's even a trade market for him in the first place? If the above opinion is the mindset around the rest of the NFL, what do you really think the Panthers can expect to as trade compensation if DJ were dealt to another team? The opinions seem to be "DJ's a nice player, but he isn't a #1. He's a #2. Let't trade him and pick up some high draft choices in return". I wouldn't give more than a 3rd draft choice for that type of WR. Would you guys be happy with that?

I think a team with a little offensive talent as the Carolina Panthers had in 2021 would be crazy to trade their best offensive player (sorry CMAC, but you can't seem to stay on the field). However, one thing that needs to be considered is how DJ feels about the situation. Let's say he loves the Charlotte area and wants to be part of the effort to rebuild the team, then I think you need to work on an extension. On the other hand if he has no interest in signing an extension, then you may need to consider a trade instead of letting him leave after his 5th year. Some may feel letting him go is a good way to get a compensation pick. I wouldn't want to run my team with an over reliance on obtaining comp picks. 1) They are never any higher than a late 3rd round choice. 2) The draft is a crapshooter so there's no guarantee additional comp choices will actually make the team better, especially when you have a suspect front office/head coach running the draft. 3) In some years, it may be better to rely on proven FA's to fill roster holes than to rely on unproven picks after the 2nd round. If you knew DJ wanted out after his initial contract, and you had a willing trade partner, you could possibly trade him before his contract expires for a late 2nd/early 3rd round choice and come away with a better player than you would get with a late 3rd round compensation pick. https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-compensatory-pick-projections-for-every-team Take a look at the link above. It tells you which teams are getting picks and the round in which they are available. A few teams are getting 3rd round choices, but most of the choices are coming in rounds 4-7.

Good post. I'm of the opinion that if we'd have had Campen in 2021, the players on the O-line would have been better just by his presence alone

After seeing the beating Joe Burrow took last night I would be inclined to take a top lineman at #6. Rhule screwed us here by not playing BC enough to determine where he should be playing in 2022 (LT, or LG). "If" we knew BC could play LT, I'd take Linderbaum at center. I know some are gonna rail about "positonal value" at #6. But here me out. During the last quarter of the season our main protection issue was up the gut. The interior line was TERRIBLE. You can't allow a QB to take a pass rush right up the gut. Edge protection is vital, but a solid interior will at least allow you to step up to avoid the defensive ends. If the interior line is in shambles, you can't throw the football...period. Aaron Donald took control of the Super Bowl in the 4th quarter. He's a DT and he almost always comes right up the middle. The Bengals lost last night because they couldn't control him. Donald even made the big stop run on the 3rd and 1 that led to the final stop on the next play. A solid prospect like Linderbaum could anchor our line for the rest of the decade. But, we don't know where BC works best so I definitely see the argument for taking a first round LT. However, I can at least see the rationale for taking a QB (Pickett) at 6. If we knew Pickett would be 75% as good as Burrow, I think most of us would agree he's worth the #6 draft choice. He put up some good numbers last year. My biggest complaint with him isn't his hand size or arm strength, but the caliber of his competition. The ACC ain't the SEC! Burrow shows that a great QB makes the entire team better just by being on the field and can "almost overcome" any team deficiency. If Pickett is that type of guy, we could put him out there in 2022 (he can't be that much worse than what we fielded at QB in 2021), get him some experience, and try to have the O-line rebuilt by his sophomore year. PS--Mad props for Burrow (and Roger Staubach). Both guys were beat to death in their Super bowl losses Yet, both QB's still had a chance to win their games on their last game possession despite playing against superior teams.

I highlighted the portion that resonated the most with me. My problem with the Rhule regime is how they evaluate talent. I'd never pass on a player if his arm length is 1 inch shorter than ideal if I had a pressing need at LT. That one inch made them view Slater as a guard? Now Slater is a Pro Bowl LT after his first year in the league. Same thing with BC. Rhule made him the highest O-lineman we've drafted in the two years he's been here with expectation of turning him into a guard, a position he's never played and that doesn't play to his natural ability. TMJ was picked in the 2nd round after Robbie received a contract extension; and despite the fact that the two best centers in the draft still being available at his draft slot. Before that we had already traded down twice and passed on several lineman that could've helped us this year.. Of course we saw how little he contributed this year. I'm still pulling for D. Brown, but I don't know why he was our first pick in the 2020 draft. But, knowing what we know now, we should have picked someone else, or traded down to pick up extra choices. Jeremy Chinn was almost defensive rookie of the year in 2020. He's still a great player, but by moving him farther from the line on scrimmage for most snaps he wasn't nearly as effective/impactful in 2021. Somehow he was convinced that Bridgewater was a big money/potential franchise QB despite never throwing more than 15 TD's in a season prior to 2020. I'm just hoping that the new and more seasoned coaching staff can get the best out of what we have on the roster. These moves were needed, but even these new hires are an indication of how unprepared Matt Rhule was for the NFL. These are the type of moves he should made as soon as he entered the league, not on in your third year after as a major regression in year two.

I think you're spot on here. I had no illusions of us being a contender this year. I was hoping for an 8-9 win season with the expectation that 2022 would be our breakthrough year. This shows you just how bad Rhule has been (so far) with his talent evaluations. We all knew this O-line was not going to be great (although I had no idea it would be as bad as it was in 2021). It's hard to believe that he thought Sam was the missing piece to put a team over the top. I understand the Gilmore deal because we didn't give up much to get him. And, if he leaves this off-season I believe we're eligible for a comp pick. The CJ Henderson pick was a reach. Once again Rhule took another's team discarded 1st round draft choice with the thought that he could succeed with him. Neither Darnold, nor Henderson, had a positive impact on the team last year. Ironically, we could be in a position to significantly improve our team in 2022 if we'd never made those deals. Still, I'm pulling hard for both players and hope they make me eat crow in 2022.

You listed 3 of the most important positions in football. in today's NFL, CB is arguably the 4th most important. If you don't have quality CB's you can't compete in today's pass happy league. As I've stated, I don't think we made a catastrophic decision passing on Fields or Jones. I think picking D. Brown in the 1st round of 2020 was much worse than taking Jaycee in the first round of 2021. Even those who hated the pick will acknowledge that Jaycee is going to be a Pro-Bowl (may be even All-Pro) player if he stays healthy. I haven't seen anything (so far) to indicate Brown will ever reach either of those levels. A DT picked in the top 8 needs to be an immovable force in the run game, a guy who wrecks the pocket, or guy who is good, if not great, at both. I don't think we lose much up front when he isn't on the field. If Brown doesn't break out in year 3 I'd start making plans to replace him. PS--I would've taken Slater at OT BTW

I still don't think we made a major mistake passing on Fields or Jones. Here's are Fields stats from 2021: TD: 7, INT: 10, Yards: 1,870, QBR: 26.5 I realize he didn't start the entire season which has some affect on his output. Still, his TD passes, yardage and QBR each ranked 31st in the NFL. I saw nothing in 2021 to suggest we set our franchise back a DECADE by passing on him. He played for an offensive-minded coach in Matt Nagy last year and still put up pedestrian stats. I doubt he would have done much better with us behind our woeful O-line and in an Joe Brady offense. Now, Nagy is gone and the Bears have hired a defensive-minded head coach, Matt Eberplus. I just don't see that as a good match. I'll regret not drafting Justin Fields after he wins a couple of MVP awards or a Super Bowl. Until then I'll never regret passing on an Ohio State QB. Matt Jones had better numbers since he started most of the season. TD: 22, INT: 13, Yards: 3,801, QBR: 50.9 Those numbers aren't bad at all for a rookie. But, take into account who he played with...The NE Patriots. Belichik is the most successful HC of the Super Bowl era. Matt had a solid OC in Josh McDaniel. The defensive is one of the best in the NFL. The offensive line is always good in New England. Do you guys think he would have been that successful in Carolina with our O-line? Fields at least could have made "some plays" with his legs. Matt Jones would have been beat to death playing with the Panthers in 2021. If we had a solid HC, OC, and O-line heading into 2021, I could see "possibly" taking one of them. Unfortunately, we had none of the above. Those guys dogded a bullet by not coming here. Still, I just don't think in 5 years any of us will be thinking "we'd be a perennial contender if we had taken Fields or Jones in 2021

Let's say we pick him. Do you think that's a strong indication we're going to role with BC at LT in 2022 and Deonte at RG? If that is the plan, we could possibly find a guard/center in the 4th round and role with that as our starting line with Efflein at center or a guard position. That's not a top 10 line on paper, but I think it's a lot better than what we put on the field this year. Also, the new OL coach should definitely make an impact in 2022. I'd love to find a solid FA acquisition, but I just don't think we are going to be a favorite/desired destination for the top lineman this off-season. I could see Norwell possibly coming back since he played so well here to start his career...and he just completed a big money deal. But, as for the other guys on the market, I'd be shocked if we signed a B level lineman during free agency...unless the prospect of playing under James Campen is a strong incentive to come here.

His performance and inability to stay healthy during the last quarter of the season certainly didn’t help his stock going into 2022. I can understand why a young QB wants an extension after year 3. But, he just needs to go out and show he’s worth a big deal this season. If this is indeed a contract issue, I wonder what type of money he’s expecting? He hasn’t proven he’s worth 40 mil per season.

One of my closest friends in from Pennsylvania and is a die hard Steelers fan. I asked him about his very trade scenario just last month. From what he said, a lot of the fans in Pittsburgh are in favor of trading up to get Pickett. They like the idea of using a hometown guy to replace Big Ben. I don't know what type of compensation we'd receive. We'd have to trade all the way down to 20. I'm sure we could get their 2nd round pick in return...and possibly a 3rd or 4th. Do you guys think that would be worth a trade down? https://www.tankathon.com/nfl (draft order)

Now that I've watched decades of baseball and football, I've come to the opinion that a quarterbacks throwing motion/mechanics is a 'little similar" to a batters swing. They both require proper mechanics to work at their best. But, it's easy to develop bad habits for both that will hinder performance. The best coaches can identify mistakes and teach the fundamentals, but ultimately it's up to the player to use that knowledge to improve. This can only be done through countless hours of practice and a strong willpower/desire to do things the right way.

I only made that statement about "fixing mechanics" after reading the article below. This may have already been posted under another topic. https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2022/01/22/panthers-oc-ben-mcadoo-sam-darnold-2018/ As we’ve noted, McAdoo turned out to be pretty spot-on in regards to his ranking of the group—as he marked Buffalo’s Josh Allen and Baltimore’s Lamar Jackson as his top two prospects. But it was his evaluation of his No. 3 quarterback, Sam Darnold, that’s of particular interest now. When speaking of the then New York Jets’ third overall pick, McAdoo said he wouldn’t have been comfortable taking Darnold due to his questionable mechanics and propensity for turnovers. “I think the kid the Jets drafted has a lot of magic in his game,” McAdoo said. “I think he’s special. He’s obviously a talented guy, he can make plays with his feet. I’d just have a hard time drafting a guy in the first round where you don’t necessarily like the way he throws. “He can overcome it, guys have, but that’s something that’s a challenge for me. I’m gonna be looking at that, trying to fix it, because it’s a fundamental flaw, and I believe in the fundamentals. The quarterback, his No. 1 job is to pass the football. If I don’t like the way he throws the ball, I have a hard time picking him, right?” Darnold has displayed those very troubles over his four-year career. The University of Southern California product, while completing just under 60 percent of his throws, has totaled 54 passing touchdowns to 52 interceptions and 29 fumbles between his time in New York and Carolina. He’s even recognized his own mechanical issues as well, having stated numerous times throughout the season that his footwork and rhythm need improving. Well, he’s not wrong. And, apparently, neither was McAdoo. Despite head coach Matt Rhule having hitched his wagon to Darnold, perhaps liking the 24-year-old’s game wasn’t a prerequisite in his search for a play-caller. Time will tell if McAdoo is here to help “fix” that investment or steer the organization in the direction of a new one.

Imagine this scenario. Campen fixes the O-line in 2022 and McAdoo is actually able to get Sam Darnold's mental game up to par with his natural physical abilities and corrects his bad throwing mechanics. As bad as the NFC south looks on paper in 2022, we could actually have a chance at taking the division! I'm not a fan of Rhule. But, I have to give him props for this off-season. If he turns things around I'll be the first to congratulate him eat a healthy serving of crow.

https://nflmocks.com/2022/01/05/2022-nfl-draft-scouting-report-bailey-zappe/ I found a scouting report on Bailey Zappe. He appears to have some issues in terms of arm strength on deep passing plays, but he is one of the more intriguing late round prospects we've seen in the past couple of years. Click on the link to see more. I'm only gonna post the summary from the scouting report. Summary Zappe shows an impressive understanding of the offense he is in, and possesses an impressive instinctual ability to escape pressure and make a plays. Aside from the inconsistencies on deep balls, Zappe shows consistent accuracy in all other areas of the field. Within 30 yards of the LOS, Zappe is as accurate as any of the other QB prospects in this class. While he projects as a 4th-5th round prospect currently, expect Zappe’s stock to rise in Mobile and throughout the entirety of the 2022 NFL Draft process.

Didn't Rhule try to recruit him? Now, i want to go O-line, especially since we won't pick again until round four. But, I wouldn't jump out of a 10 story window if we did get him. If we somehow obtained a quality interior lineman prior to the draft and a decision was made to let BC settle in at LT for the 2022 season, I could probably accept the decision to take a QB at 6 (whether it's Picket or someone else). Let's be honest, even if Pickett is average, I can't see him being any worse than any of the QB's on our roster last year. In addition to that, he's a rookie so he'd have room to improve his game with better coaching.

On the latest episode of PFN’s Between the Hashes podcast, PFN Chief Draft Analyst and NFL Insider Tony Pauline spoke at length about Pickett, touching on both his draft stock and the hand size concerns. Pauline began with Pickett’s draft stock and had this to say about where the Panthers passer is trending: “The overall belief in the league is he’ll be the first quarterback drafted,” Pauline said. “He probably will be a first-round pick, but he’s really a third-round prospect. And he’ll be a first-round pick and the first quarterback drafted only because of the need at the position. I don’t know if Matt Corral passes him. I don’t think he does, but everything right now looks like Kenny Pickett will be the first quarterback drafted. “We talked about last week: If he goes to the Senior Bowl, has a good week of practices, because the Senior Bowl is a king-maker at a lot of positions — most importantly the quarterback position. Carson Wentz, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers — guys who went there as Day 2 picks, fringe first-rounders, then just skyrocketed up draft boards. That’s the opportunity that is in front of Pickett, and I hope he takes hold of it.” ------- The section in bold print is what concerns me. If Pickett had come out last year he likely would have been a Day 2 selection. I'd be a little nervous investing a top 6 pick on him, especially if the team has an O-line as bad as the 2021 Carolina Panthers. Then again, the 2021 season had several teams starting QB's drafted outside of the 1st round: Derek Carr, Russel Wilson, Dak Prescott, Kurt Cousins, and Tom Brady. So, Pauline's rating doesn't mean he'll never succeed in the NFL. No position seems more difficult to properly evaluate in pro football than QB.

After reading your scouting report I'm beginning to think you need to get a job in the Panther scouting department . Just curious, where is Zappe projected to go in the 2022 draft? If McCall is as good as you say he is then he should be picked in the top 5 for sure. More than one team will seriously consider trading up to get him if they need a QB. Since Rhule is returning, I'd be surprised if we're not picking in the top 12-15. Who are the other top prospects in 2023?

I don't know much about the lower rated QB's in this year's draft class. But, if I thought someone on the board in the 5th or 6th round was serviceable I'd let PJ go in a heartbeat if he was clearly the better QB in training camp.

No problem with anything you said here. I'm glad I'm not the only one who realizes that there is more than one way to build competitive teams in the NFL. However, I took notice to one word/phrase you used in paragraph 2..."Masterful FO's and Coaches". That's the key. The guys in power have to know what they are doing. We don't currently have that in Carolina.