SCO96

I saw a video of Corral highlights on YouTube. A BAMA guy was commenting. He said he was glad to see Matt leave Ole Miss because the BAMA defense had a hard time dealing with him. He felt Matt was the best QB they've face that past two seasons and has the tools to be a solid NFL QB.

I don't think the NFL is set up for a QB to succeed in the 3rd round, which really is quite unfortunate. Imagine this scenario: The team has another bad year and things go south once again. Matt gets some playing time around the middle or the last quarter of the year. Let's say he plays ok, but not spectacular. Tepper decides to hire a new coach and we end up picking in the top 10 again. This draft is supposedly going to have a good class of QB's. There would be a lot of pundits (and fans) saying that we should take a 1st round QB in 2023...and maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing. A new QB deserves to have the guy he wants at the QB because his success will ultimately depend on the guy taking the snaps. If we did get a QB, any chance of Matt ever becoming a franchise QB is all but gone. The team would have a lot more invested in the 1st rounder and would get him on the field ASAP, even if Matt is better. Corrall would probably at best end a journeyman QB or even out of the league of years. People would be saying "3rd round QB's don't make it big in the NFL". That may be true, but it isn't always based on talent. I think more teams are willing to give 1st rounders more chances to prove themselves than the lower round draft choices.

I wholeheartedly agree with this post. Going high in the 1st round should have the young man set financially for the rest of his life. That's great for him. In terms of his actual career as a NFL QB, he should have stayed at USC for another year to get more reps at the position. He would have had more experience coming into the league. This would have probably resulted in him going to another franchise instead of the Jets, who were definitely going to take a QB that year in the draft. Coming out a year later, could have resulted in him going to a better franchise with better coaching. It's also possible that he could have been allowed to sit a year, maybe even two, before seeing the field. All that's water under the bridge. If Corral isn't ready, I hope Sam can successful this year. He seems like a nice guy. I still think if he received some solid coaching from a coach like Bill Walsh, Andy Reid, Mike Holmgrem, etc he could become a serviceable QB in the league.

It's hard to shut down a potent offense for 4 quarters at the NFL level. The rules favor the passing game, Defenses get fatigued, and as you pointed out sometimes the offenses are able to make adjustments after 3 quarters of play. Seattle had a 10 point lead against the Pats before they let Brady throw two TD's down the stretch to pull things out for the team. NE dominated St. Louis defensively for 3 quarters in their first SB win, but they had no answers for the Rams offense in the 4th quarter; which is why that game almost went to overtime before the Vinitari FG iced the game. The Atlanta pass rush was gassed in the 4th quarter when Brady rallied the team from the 28-3 deficit. If you're not getting a strong pass rush all game long and the DB's can't keep up with the receivers then no lead under 20 points is safe in the 4th quarter...especially if the offense begins to bog down.

Every QB is different. You can't make rash decisions when it comes to starting a rookie QB. Some QB's enter a league in a good environment and have enough talent to start immediately make their teams playoff contenders or participants (Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Russel Wilson, Andrew Luck, and Dan Marino are examples). Other achieved success in a the league and ultimately ended up in the Hall of Fame put had miserable/lackluster 1st seasons (Bradshaw, Aikman, Elway, P. Manning). Some players just need to sit and hold the clipboard for year before their given control of the team. The two most successful QB...in terms of SB wins...since 1981 sat their rookie seasons (Montana and Brady). If a kid understands the playbook, can make the throws, and has a solid line blocking for him I think its ok to start him, especially if he's better than the other QB's on the roster. But, under no circumstances should you throw him out there if he isn't ready. We've all seen QB's fail in the league because the coaches threw them on the field to soon. Personally, I think Darnold should have set a year with the Jets. I think he would have been better prepared to play QB at the professional level if he had.

I think I'm starting to get your proposal. Year ONE: 20 million (guarantee) Year TWO: 20 million (guarantee) Year Three: 20 million ($5 guaranteed, 15 million )-----$60 mil received in total...guarantee met. Year Four: 20 million (non guaranteed) Year 5: 20 million (non guaranteed) If the above player was jettisoned after year 3 would any of the remaining salary be considered dead cap space? Or, would the team be able to walk away with no cap implications since the last 40 million wasn't guaranteed?. You didn't mention anything about a signing bonus. I know that is received upfront an prorated over the life of the deal. Years ago I thought the signing bonus and guaranteed money were the same thing. After seeing the how things contracts are structured on SPOTRAC a couple of seasons ago I realized that they're not. Look forward to your reply.

I went to bed a little too late last night and I will admit that my reasoning is a bit amiss this morning. Can you breakdown your scenario a little bit more. I don't understand the part about the 3rd year having a $5mil guarantee. Wouldn't that be each of the first 3 years be $15 mil?

I always believed (and said on this forum) that we were looking at a 3 year rebuild when Rhule was hired. Year 2 was so bad that we're now a year behind. I think 2023 is the year we make some noise in the division and the conference. I just want to see some progression this year. A strong 2023 draft class could put us in a position to challenge for a conference title over the next 4-5 seasons.

I really wish we still had the 16 game season. I think 8-8 would insure his job for another year. Now a lot of teams going forward will be one game over .500 or one game under .500. I could except an 8-9 season if the team showed a marked improvement on offense. The 2020 (5-11) was almost identical record wise to our 2021 season (5-12) record wise. But the games were so much more entertaining in 2020. We lost 8 of our 11 games by one score or less. We had a chance to win all 8 games in the 4th quarter. I never got bored watching the game despite the losses. Last years offense (especially in the 2nd half) was arguably the worst we ever had in Carolina; and is why so many of us were ready to hop off of the Matt Rhule train. Everything about this year's team looks and feels different. If CMAC can return to form and play 12-14 games and the QB play at worst solid, then I really believe we'll be competitive in the NFC and be in wildcard contention at the end of the season.

The last two years have been quite humbling for Matt Rhule. Maybe he's starting to get a better understanding of just what it takes to be successful as a HC in the NFL. Listening to the counsel from others in the building as you pointed out is a sign that he's maturing and gaining wisdom on how to run the team. It took Tom Landry coached the Dallas Cowboys from 1960-1964 without a winning season. The Cowboys didn't achieve a .500 record until 1965) The team didn't have a winning season 1966. After that Landry wouldn't have a losing season until 1986, and the Cowboys only missed the playoffs twice from 1966-1985. We certainly don't want it to take 7 years for Rhule to post winning record, but it appears the guy is learning from his mistakes, and you really can't ask for more than that...except more wins of course

Both McAdoo and Chris Simms had Corrall as the best QB in this draft class. If you look at how they have ranked the past few classes, they have been pretty much nailed the best prospect each year. I'm looking forward to seeing what Matt Corrall can do with good coaching, a revamped O-line, a healthy CMC, and more talented to roster from top to bottom than we've had in years.

I've watched NFL games for nearly 40 years. I have no problem saying that the Jets have never interested me as a franchise. I've always been indifferent to them a league entity. You can make a strong argument that this franchise hasn't really been relevant since" before Joe Namath left the team" in 1976. If you took away that 1968 SB season, they'd be a footnote in NFL history. All that said, the front office crushed that draft. Zach Wilson had an erratic 2021 season, but anyone who knows football realizes that kids got a cannon for an arm. Selah's a good coach and seems to be putting the pieces together little by little. He and the front office "may be" on the verge of building something really special with that team.

Jon, are you insinuating that PJ Walker and Sam Darnold are not upper echelon NFL QB's?! Thou speakest Blasphemy

I think you misunderstood the intent of my post. I see it the same way you do. If Brady is left out of the equation, you'll still have 9 guys that won SB's that weren't drafted in the first round. And, as I stated you may have an equal number of non-first rounders who started a SB but lost. I'll try to find that data w/in the next 24 hours ann add it to this topic.

The scenario above is why I think it's hard for non first round picks to get a fair chance to prosper in the NFL. Let's Corrall has a (12 TD's, 17 INTS, and 3,641 YDs, 71.9 RTG) at the end of the season and the Panthers and fail to show any improvement in the win column... or heaven forbid...actually win fewer games. Most of the people on this board (for understandable reason) would probably be inclined to take one of the more highly rated QB's in the first round of the 2023 class. The new guy would come in as the clear cut favorite to be the starter by season's end. Corrall would have 3 yrs left on his deal. He'd likely viewed by the coaching staff as: 1)a backup until the contract expired, 2) trade bait, 3) roster cut if the spot was needed for another player In a couple of years there's a high probablity he'd be out of the league. The new guy could put up the exact same numbers and a large percentage of people would say "He's a rookie and needs more time to adapt to the NFL game." Or, "He needs a stronger team around him to really flourish" The above statement could very well be true. But, front office are always going to be more inclined to give the 1st rounder more opportunity/time to improve because they have more invested in him. It's obvious that NFL executives, and also fans unfortunately, look as any QB not taken in the 1st round as a 2nd or 3rd class NFL citizens. FYI: Just in case you're interested, the above stats came were from Trevor Lawrence's 2021 rookie season. He had 3 games where he threw 3 INTS (no rookie had done accomplished that infamous feat in nearly a decade. https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2022/01/06/jacksonville-jaguars-trevor-lawrence-latest-rookie-qb-three-3-interception-games/9077085002/ Still, he didn't come close to touching Peyton Manning's (a 1st round pick) record of 28 INTS in a season. If Corrall had a season like either of the above two players he'd be tarrred, feathered, and run out of town...mainly because he isn't a 1st round pick.

Since 1980 (non Brady & non 1st round QB's to win SB's) Joe Montana (3rd Round) 1981, 1984, 1988, 1989 Jeff Hostetler (3rd) 1990 Mark Rypien (6th) 1991 Brett Favre (2nd) 1996 Kurt Warner (undrafted) 1999 Brad Johnson (9th) 2001 Drew Brees (2nd) 2009 Russell Wilson (3rd) 2013 Nick Foles (3rd) 2017 QB's drafted after round 1 have started a fair number of SB's as well. I didn't have time to post that list...but maybe later.

So he's a MLB. I was wondering whether he was an ILB or OLB. Thank you for clearing that up. I'm not able to watch the draft. I just got/saw a notice on my phone and saying Panthers draft LB from Penn State via trade.

I actually wish he'd go on the first or second pick tonight so we can stop talking about him.

We've had a major hole at LT for years, so I'd probably pick a LT just to solidify the o-line going forward. That said, The draft is always a crapshoot. There's no guarantee any of the players in the top 10 are going to pan out. If the team could trade back and net 2 or 3 starters before round 4 instead of only one, then I think you make the deal. My problem with trade backs is you can miss out on who you're targeting. One team/GM can make an unexpected move by taking your guy and leave you severely disappointed. Also, we traded back a loy last year, and so far we don't have a lot to show for it. Extra picks are useless if you pick the wrong players or fail to develop them into meaningful contributers.

This is why I understand the rationale for trading down to pick up additional choices in the 2nd and/or 3rd round. Teams are going to find some really solid players in the draft after the 1st round is finished. Let's be honest, if BC or one of our other lineman had proven to be capable in 2021 and we weren't desperate for a LT for the 2022 season, how many players in this years class do you think we'd be all hyped up for? I don't see any can't miss/superstar players in this draft class based on the scouting reports and college resumes, although I know some will end up excelling if placed in the right situation.

One off season (I forget which one) Matt Rhule hung out with Jimmy Johnson down in Florida. Jimmy's philosophy (and understandable when you ponder it) is that it's good to have as many draft choices as possible on draft day. 1) All teams have draft busts. The more picks you have the more the greater the chance of finding solid players for the team. 2) It allows you to manipulate the draft board by moving up...or down...to get a player you want if he' left on the board. Everything is all good when you land studs and overlooked players after the first two rounds. I think our FO got a little too cute in round 2. We could have drafted a LT in our initial spot. Instead we opted to trade down and the T we were targeting got picked right ahead us, so we traded down again...and picked a WR that we didn't need and failed to develop. In round 3 Brady was the highest rated lineman on our board that was still available so we took him. We ended up passing on about seven guys (at C, G, or T) who would have been tremendous upgrades on our line from day one.

That wouldn’t be a bad scenario. I just don’t think Carson Strong will be on the board when we pick in the 4th round.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33815120/source-jacksonville-jaguars-franchise-tagged-lt-cam-robinson-reach-three-year-54m-extension It looks like we will likely have a shot at one of the top 3 tackles (Neal, Cross, or Ekwon) in the draft tomorrow night. The Jags just gave Cam Robinson a 3 year extension to lock down their LT spot. It’s highly unlikely they’ll be taking a LT with the first pick. All three tackles would have to go between picks 2 and 5 for us to miss out on one at the #6 spot. I don’t see that happening. Now, we just have to see if the front office is content to stay put and solidly the line, take a risk on a questionable rookie QB, or allow a team move up to get us an additional pick (or picks).

Despite the downturn in Dallas, we still only lost that game by 8 points. Sam was 26-39/301yds/2 TDs/2 INTS. It was the play after that game that became so concerning. I still think having McAdoo and Campen on the coaching staff is going to help whomever we put behind center in 2022; be it Darnold or another vet, or a rookie ( Pickett or Willis). The offense was predictable last season. Our 2nd half woes (the 3rd quarter in particular) aren't all on the QB's. I was glad to see Brady leave town. The pass blocking was atrocious. There were some games I trembled each me Sam, Cam, or PJ took a snap on passing plays. I'll be shocked if we don't substantially improve our offensive performance in 2022 with the new coaching additions.