SCO96

I don't follow the Tarheels much. I know nothing about Sam Howell. But, your comment is interesting because it provides some context into Howell's on field performance in 2021. Things like this need to be taken into account when evaluating a players (especially QBs). How good is the supporting cast? A guy in Howell's situation might thrive on a team like INDY that has a strong O-line and solid (if not great) weapons on the outside.

If I were in Rhule's situation I wouldn't want to either

Thanks!!

Im not gonna disagree with you. But what's making him panic? Is he afraid of getting hit? Is the scheme too complicated? Has he lost his confidence? I think some guys just have inherit greatness? Some need to be nutured just a bit. I wouldn't care if Sam was off team in 2022. That said, I still think the right coach could probably get a lot more out of him than Adam Gase, Joe Brady, and Matt Rhule did.

I'm actually off tomorrow. Anyone know of way to tune in and watch it live?

Last year: 1) We had a terrible O-line 2) Our best offensive weapon missed most of the season. 3) Our OC had a predictable scheme that was ridiculed around the league 4) We could not make adjustments that allowed us to score in the 2nd half (especially quarter 3) 5) We received virtually no production at the TE position. Saying Sam didn't play well is an understatement, but all of the above things are weren't all his fault. Cam and PJ didn't look any better when they were taking snaps. All three had to run for their lives because of our poor pass blocking. I'll get flamed for this, but if we draft a LT instead of a QB I wouldn't be totally opposed to seeing what Darnold can do in a McAdoo offensive scheme and behind a James Kampen coached O-line. If he sucks (highly likely), then he'll be off the team and allowed to hit the market in 2023. But, what if the light comes on and leads to a ressurection of his almost dead career? I don't think any QB could be fairly judged playing behind the woeful Panther 2022 offensive line.

I don't think 2021 class as whole is that much better than than the QB class of 2022. Lawrence was clearly the best of the group. What exactly did he do to set the world on fire last year? He came into a really bad situation. I hope he does well, but things could go south there in a hurry. Trey Lance barely saw the field. We have no guarantee he's going to be elite. He put up big numbers in college, but he didnt' exactly play in the SEC weak in and weak out either. He could be a bust. The book hasn't even been really opened for him yet. Zach Wilson? He throws a nice ball. What else does he bring to the table. Justin Fields? First strike: Ohio State QB (they all suck). Strike 2: He's in Chicago (no Bear QB has come close to making the Hall of Fame since Sid Luckman retired in 1950. Strike 3: The Bears fired the coach who drafted him and hired a defensive minded coach in a pass happy league Matt Jones? He did ok in his rookie year. The last QB drafted had the best overall season and made the playoffs in his rookie season. Not surprising since he went to the best situation I don't see why Pickett, Willis, Corral are viewed so much worse than the guys above. I have no way of knowing, but I thimk they have just as much (if not more) of a chance of being successful in the NFL as the 5 guys drafted in 2021.

You see it the way I do. There's is no guarantee you'll be able to trade back. If you unable to move off of the 6th spot when you're on the clock what's the plan? And, let's say you do trade back, you still may not get the guy (s) you want. I definitely wouldn't draft a CB. A stud pass rusher would be nice, but I think you'd have to go with a QB, unless the team acquired a starter between now and the draft.

Bledsoe had a lot of misfortune in his career. He lost his job to Brady due to injury. He had to come in and bail out the team to beat Pittsburgh in the 2001 AFC title game after Brady go hurt. HE QB's them to a win and a SB appearance. After they win the SB Drew was traded to Buffalo. He goes to Buffalo and has a couple of good seasons and is then released after the 2004 season in favor of the great 1st round pick JP Losman. I bet all of you guys forgot about him. I know I sure did. He goes to Dallas to reunite with Parcells in Dallas. He ended up being replaced by Romo. He was really good QB in his prime. He almost won a SB with NE in 1996. He's forgotten by most because he'll always be in Brady's shadow.

Yesterday, one of the media pundits was highly in favor of this move. He said Baker has the talent to play in the NFL. But, he felt Baker was lacking maturity and wasn't mentally ready to lead a team. He reasoned who better to learn from than Tom Brady. Tom won't play forever. It might not be a bad idea to have his replacement in house. Plus, if Tom does get hurt and miss games, Baker isn't a bad guy to call off of the bench. I'm sure Kyle Trask would be ticked off, but it really isn't a bad strategy if you have the cap space and if Baker could swallow his pride.

You listed 9 QB's in your post. Only three of them were picked after pick #12: Jackson, Hurts, and Prescott. Jackson fell a little further than expected but still went in round one.. I don't think anyone thought Jalen Hurts was a 1st round talent. I'll be honest, I never even heard of Dak Prescott until the Cowboys drafted him. I'm not saying we should take a QB. But, if we do we need to make sure we get the guy we want. Don't leave anything to chance. Other teams try to manipulate the draft board as well. It only takes one GM to mess up our entire draft strategy. Somebody else may want the guy we want. True Story: the Cowboys needed a WR to replace Drew Pearson after his near fatal car accident prior to the 1984 season. Jerry Rice was the guy they were targeting. Bill Walsh had 3 receivers we wanted prior to the 1985 draft (Al Toon, Eddie Brown, and Jerry Rice). The Jets took Toon first. The Bengal wanted Eddie Brown, but Sam Wyche was willing to trade down with SF for a 1 and a 3. Walsh was willing to part with a 1 and a 4. Sam took Eddie Brown. Walsh knew Dallas wanted Rice so they traded up 1 spot ahead of Dallas and took Rice. Imagine how much different history would have been SF hadn't made that trade.

That article cannot possibly be right. Mel Kiper Jr (of ESPN) fame has stated that none of these guys are going in the top 10! He has Pickett going to NO @ 18, Willis going to PIT @ 20, and Corral going to the Lions @ 32! I'm being sarcastic of course. I think/expect all 3 of these guys will be gone before pick 20. I wouldn't be surprised if all 3 are gone before pick 15. If there's a guy in this class we like we need to pick while he's on the board. I don't think we can assume we can trade back more than two or three slots and have the option of selecting one of them.

Kurt Warner told a similar story. He was actually in the Packers training camp once as an undrafted free agent. He got cut, and even if he had made the team he would've never started because Brett Favre was entrenched as the QB in Green Bay. He ended up in Europe and the Arena League before getting another shot in the NFL. Warner won two MVP awards, played in 3 SB's (winning one, and losing the other 2 by less than 7 total points), and ended up in the Hall of Fame. He said had he somehow remained in GB behind Favre none of the above would have had a chance of happening. In fact Warner was never suppose to lead "The Greatest Show on Turf". He only got a chance when starter Trent Green went down with an injury early in the 1999 season. Warner was able to have fate smile on him. It makes you wonder how many other people could have had success in the NFL but were never given an opportunity shine because of a lack of opportunity (bad team, no playing time, injury, team politics, etc)

You could make that argument. I know Jordan could've won championships with another coach in the NBA. But, it's unlikely he wouldn't have won 6 championships in 8 years if Phil Jackson had not been his coach and if he had played for a team with a worse FO than the one he had in Chicago. Jordan is the best 2-guard ever. I do not believe Jordan needed Phil to elevate his physical gifts. Phil created a team environment to enable MJ to win championships: two entirely different things.

Not true all. Brady himself would be the first to admit that Belichik and (Charlie Weis) had huge impact on his development as a player. People who lionize they guy tend to overlook certain facts about some of his SB wins. He didn't win the first two SB games (Adam Vinitari did. If he misses those kicks SB history is vastly different) The Patriot defense was the driving force on the 1st three SB wins (2001-2005. It stifled opposing offenses. Brady was good, but nowhere near as great as he's been on the back half of his career. Malcom Butler won SB number 4. Brady was on the bench when his team properly diagnosed a play and ended a would be dynasty in Seattle. Brady didn't even throw a TD pass in SB win #6. Belichik and Flores just shut down the Rams potent offense. Easily the worst Patriot team to win a SB...even NE fans admit that.

Great point. Show me a Hall of Fame coach, and 95% of the time he coached a Hall of Fame QB or very good one. Paul Brown--Otto Graham Weeb Eubank--John Unitas, Joe Namath Lombardi--Bart Starr Shula--John Unitas, Bob Griese, Dan Marino Landry--Roger Staubach Noll--Terry Bradshaw John Madden--Ken Stabler Tony Dungy--Peyton Manning Dick Vermeil--Kurt Warner Bill Belichik--Tom Brady Bill Cohwer-- Big Ben Jimmy Johnson--Troy Aikman Bud Grant--Fran Tarkenton (The never won, but were in 3 SB between 1973-1976) Bill Parcells--Phil Simms (not HoF, but very close...could be if he wasn't injured during the Giants 2nd SB run/win. He was the MVP of the 1986 SB win over Elway and the Broncos). Joe Gibbs is the major exception. He won 3 SB's (1982, 1987, 1991)with 3 different QB's, and none of them are in the HoF: 1) Joe Theisman was a good QB, 1983 MVP, career cut shut due to injury 2) Doug Williams (not an all time great but from a scrubb) 3) Mark Rypien (not great but had a great 1991 season) ----- Great QB's need good (if not great) coaching and solid teams around them to win. Quarterbacks just can't will themselves to world championships. And coaches can't put JAGs behind the center and expect SB titles.

Agreed. I don't think Tom Brady would be recognized as the "GOAT" had he been drafted by either of the following teams when he entered the NFL: Bengals, Lions, Cardinals, Bears, etc. He may have improved their situation because of his talent, but the history of the NFL would not be significantly different.

The situation definitely has the biggest impact on a QB's success. There are a lot of examples of good/great QBs' who didn't win titles. I won't list them all now, but one example is the father of two of the guys mentioned above: Archie Manning. I've heard players like Jack Lambert, Jack Ham, Roger Staubach, etc say that Archie was very underrated QB who would have regularly competed for championships had he had stronger supporting casts. His New Orleans teams were terrible. I actually heard Jerry Glanville say (prarphrasing) "Peyton and Eli wouldn't have survived in the NFL. They'd be dead" had the played on those woeful Saints teams in the 1970's. Look at some of his footage from back in the day. He seemed to running for his life on half of the snaps. Neither Peyton, nor Eli, had the mobility of their dad and would have been beat to death playing under the rules in the 1970's There are just as many examples of average to good QB's who will never make the Hall of Fame but won SB's because they were on very strong teams: Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams. Trevor Lawrence came out of Clemson touted as the next Elway, Manning, or Luck. You couldn't tell it by the way he played last season. Does that mean he stinks as a QB and was overrated? Of course not. Imagine if he'd ended up in New England instead of Jacksonville for his rookie season. I'm hoping Peterson can turn things around for him. But, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he could suffer like Archie Manning did if the front office fails to put the proper pieces around him or the coaching effort is subpar.

Clausen wasn't even good enough to become a career journeyman/backup. If it wasn't for this being a Panther website that I frequent I would have forgotten all about him...like the rest of the NFL fans already have.

Is Rosen even still in the league?

Since I'm a poor man compared to NFL players, I have a hard time understanding this move. PFT said the Chief's offer would have made Hill one of he best paid receivers in the NFL. I'd pick making top 5 money in the NFL, continue playing with the best/2nd best young QB in football, and competin for an AFC title every year, over being the highest paid receiver playing with Dolphins. Hill must really value money over winning. Miami hasn't worn a SB since 1973 (the Nixon administration) and hasn't played in a SB since 1984 (the Reagan administration). He must be content with the one SB ring, because he has a better chance of being struck by lightning that winning another ring in Miami before he retires.

Trading down in the 1st round for additional picks is good in theory in some cases. But, it can be dangerous if you miscalculate would the other teams might do. I'd hate to trade back and miss the targeted player at a position as important as QB. I agree with you, if Corral's checks all the boxes and the Pickett and Willis are gone, I'd take Corral at 6...if you're dead set on taking a QB in the 2022 draft.

Good point sir. I think you'll see more of the HBCU's having players get drafted on day 3 and as UDFA's over the next several years if more schools are successful in recruiting as Deion has been at Jackson State. It's a given that the big programs will always have more players in the NFL than the smaller programs. But, when teams have low cap space, extra draft choices, or know there are players that have transferred from big programs as you outlined above, smaller schools are sure to have some hidden gems that could contribute to many NFL franchises.

Year ago I listened to an interview from Steve Deberg when Steve Sabol was still alive. Deberg had one of the unluckiest careers of anybody in NFL history: He came into the league with the Cowboys in the mid 70's. The team was set with Staubach at QB, but the team realized he was talented and tried to hide him on their practice squad. The 49er's claimed him. He went to SF and became a starter until Walsh replaced with a 3rd rounder named Joe Montana. He went to Denver as a starter until Dan Reeves replaced him with !st rounder John Elway. He went to Tampa, and got replaced by Steve Young He finally ended up in KC and actually led the team to the playoffs under Marty S. I believe, but he never became superstar. He had the misfortune of being replaced or held back by 4 Hall of Fame QB's. He once broke down what was great about the latter 3. Elway: Possibly the strongest arm He ever saw. Said he footballs looked and sounded like no other QB. Young: Maybe a better physical specimen than Elway in terms of mobility and running. Said Young could have been a viable RB in the NFL Montana: Couldn't throw like Elway. Couldn't run like Young. Not a great physical presence like the latter two. Said Joe was best QB he ever saw. When asked what made him great Deberg said I can't pinpoint it Joe was just great and understood how to play the position from the neck up. It goes back to what Mr. Scott said (paraphrasing) "Process what's happening on the field and throw the ball to right spot at the right time" Any QB that can do that is going to be successful. It doesn't matter about the physical tools if he can't do the things highlighted above. PS: Bill Walsh was once asked to rate Deberg as a QB. He said he had one of the prettiest balls he ever saw and was a better"pure passer" than Joe Montana...talk about irony.