SCO96

1. I think the answer depends on what's available in the offseason. I'll admit that I'd be gun shy getting another low 2nd-3rd tier retread (Bridgewater, Darnold, Mayfield). But if a top 12 guy was available in he'd be a significant upgrade for us. I don't know a whole lot about the rookies. Several guys are saying we should tank to get a top 1-3 choice so I'm guessing their better than last year's class. 3. Nope! But, I'd like to think even Carolina would have a hard time blowing a top 5 selection in the first round. We could probably nab a solid center, LB, d-lineman, or Safety in the 2nd/3rd and come away with possibly 3 starters in a best case scenario.

I didn't say we were an elite team. I said we could be a playoff team, especially if certain things fell into place. Remember, we once won a division title with a 7-8-1 record. Hear me out. I'm looking ahead to 2023. Brady will in all likelihood be gone from Tampa at the end of the season. Tampa's Super Bowl aspirations will be going away with him. Atlanta and New Orleans are not exactly world beaters. Carolina isn't playing in a stacked division like the AFC West. 1) Imagine if we had a legit QB who could gets us 25 or more TDs and keep his TD/INT ratio at 2:1. n 2) Pair him with a good OC. 3) We have our 1st 3 picks in the 2023 draft class. We should be able to get some good choices b/c we know we'll be picking at the top of each round. You guys don't think the above scenario could win us 9-10 games and take a weakened NFC South? I didn't say we were an elite team or good enough to have a deep playoff run. I just think we can take our weak division once Brady leaves.

That's not his fault. As you stated QB's are the most important players on the field. We've had some of the worst QB play in the league since our last playoff season in 2017. Take a look at some of the following RB's, all time greats, who never won (or even played in ) a SB because of lackluster QB play. Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, OJ Simpson, Adrian Peterson, Eric Dickerson. Even guys like Walter Payton and Jerome Bettis who did win rings at the end of the careers were only able to do so because they were on teams that had good defenses and competent QB play to lighten their load Getting rid of Christian for more picks doesn't automatically put us in a better position to win based on our current roster and front office. As I said in another post you can have a boat load of picks and still screw up. Take a look at our last two drafts. Or better yet, look back on the Ricky Williams deal. Saints coach Mike Ditka gave the Redskins all of his draft choices to move up in pick Ricky in the first round. This is from Wikepedia: "The Saints traded their first round, third round, fourth round, fifth round, sixth round, and seventh round picks in the 1999 NFL Draft,[7][8] and their first-round and third-round picks from the 2000 NFL Draft to the Washington Redskins for the fifth overall pick of the 1999 NFL Draft." That was really dumb. But, people tend to overlook the fact that the Redskins accomplished absolutely nothing with all the draft capital they got from the deal. They made the playoffs in 1999, and then missed the postseason the next five seasons until they made it back in 2005. Extra draft choices mean nothing if you pick the wrong dudes.

If RB's don't matter, why do you (and everyone who wants to trade Christian) think anyone in the NFL is going to give us a #1 draft choice for any injury prone running back? We're probably going to get a two at best, but more likely a 3rd round choice. Then everyone is making the assumption that once we get those choices, we're guaranteed to pick the right players and begin a quick rebuild. I've seen nothing in the history of the Panthers to suggest we'd properly use those choices. If anything we're going to draft the wrong player, or "trade down for value" and wind up with more selections, but more JAGS who would also "fail to move the needle" If I were the owner and Christian demanded a trade this season or held out heading into next season I'd consider accommodating him. If he wants to stay I'd keep him for the rest of the year. Once I knew for certain who the coach and GM would be prior to the 2023 draft I'd consider a trade/move only if a well laid out strategy was presented for the next year that would facilitate a quick rebuild. Personally, I'd be more inclined to replace a couple of our other high dollar players and use FA and the draft to fill some holes and finally get a QB. We really are just a QB and talented OC away from being a playoff team.

I would never consider signing Baker to a long term deal, but hear me out. What you pointed out in your post about the throwing mechanics is fixable. Footwork issues are fixable. Calling better plays and developing better schemes is fixable. A good coaching staff could win games with Baker. He won 7 games for a team that won non the year before he got there. And, he won a playoff game after almost throwing 30 TD's one year, without the help of an injured Odell Beckham. Teddy B went 5-0 as a Saint starter with Sean Peyton coaching him. Last year in Denver he went 7-7 with 18 TD's and 7 INT's. Sam Darnold went 7-6 with 19 TD's and 13 INT's in 2019. Had he done that last year we would have been an 8 or 9 win team in 2021. Yet, each guy seems to play worse football in Carolina. Such a decline in performance has to be in large part due to coaching. The current staff is unable to get the most out of the players and put them in position to succeed on the gridiron.

After scanning this post and several other comments by Huddlers all over this forum, there are times when I really think some of us could actually be of great assistance to the franchise if we were on the Carolina Panther payroll.

I see it differently. A player drafted in the top 64 draft choice for a rebuilding club with a new HC needs to be a difference maker. If he were a 4th rounder (or even a late 3rd rounder) his production wouldn't concern me as much. Based on his production so far, YGM appears to be a JAG. If we lost him, I think we could replace him with a later round draft choice in the next year or two and not miss a beat.

Cam got hurt that season year and didn't play after the 2nd game. Kyle Allen started 12 games for us and went 5-7. We lost our last 8 games. That wouldn't have happened with a healthy Cam.

If we knew for sure that we were going to get a good coach to replace Rhule; and also knew that the FO could get good compensation and turn those picks into solid starter for a new regime, then I could support moving Christian. But, I have no faith in Tepper and/or Scott F. to pick a successful next coach, especially if they opt for another "defensive minded coach". I also have no faith in the FO to pick the right players if we got a good haul from moving CMAC. Our draft classes haven't been stellar the past 3 years. We've passed on a lot of talent during our efforts to manipulate the draft board and accumulate picks. I still think we can win with the talent we have if we could get a QB, one or two more draft picks to fill some holes, and someone who knew how to put the guys already on the roster in the best position/role to optimize their natural abilities. I think the coach/GM combo could add solid starters with our 1,2,and 3 picks in next years draft to what we have and challenge for a division title since this is probably Brady's last year in Tampa.

I may get reamed for this, but I wouldn't want Stroud. He plays at Ohio State. Those guys always flame out in the the NFL.

Despite the lack of FA, the Steelers still showed steady improvement each year during Noll's first three seasons. 1969: 1-13 1970: 5-9 1971: 6-8 The next season they made the playoffs with a 11-3 record in 1972 and wouldn't miss the playoffs for the rest of the decade. Our offense is getting worse each year under Rhule. He appears to have idea how to choose a good OC or competently pick a QB to run a modern day offense in the NFL.

Not really sweating about the loss of the 6th and 7th round picks. It would be nice to have a 3 since that appears to be a top 100 choice next year. I am concerned about that cap figure. Are we really $20 mil over the cap? I don’t see how hats possible with the roster we have.

I wouldn't trade either guy. They could be really useful to a young rookie entering the league if we could get a solid prospect in next year's draft. Now, if they demanded a trade and I could get good compensation that's another matter. If we had a good head coach and a competent OC and QB, we'd compete for a while card spot in 2023...and possibly a division title now that Brady is in his last year.

Arizona is whipping us and Kyler doesn't even have DeAndre Hopkins and AJ Green on the field today. This would probably be a massive rout if Arizona was at full strength.

PJ Sucks! But he can't be any worse than Baker has been today. PJ's passes may end up in the wrong receiver's hand ( or in the dirt), but at least he'd be able to get the pass off without it getting knocked down at the line of scrimmage.

What's wrong with you guys? Can't you see that the process is working?

I wasn't overly upset when Ron was let go, but in his defense, Cam was hurt the final two years he was at Carolina so he had to play most of those seasons with back-up QB's. Tepper didn't even let him finish the season. Ron was dismissed with 4 games left to go. And what do we have to show for it? The new hire is the least popular HC we've ever had.

You did. I posted this last week. Its an article 2017 season (2018 playoff game) https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-owners-reportedly-lobbying-art-rooney-to-fire-mike-tomlin-after-playoff-debacle/ Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk reported Tuesday that he's hearing "some of the team's limited partners intend to lobby owner Art Rooney to fire of Tomlin and to hire a new coach." To be clear: These members of ownership, who bought into the team about a decade ago, do not have the authority to hire or fire anyone or to make any sort of management decisions. They are minority owners without a controlling interest; Florio lists "Rob Citrone, Paul Evanson, Larry Paul, Stephen Paul, Bruce Rauner, Paul Sams, John Stallworth, Benjamin Statler, Scott Swank, David Tepper, Thomas Tull, Peter Varischetti, and Mike Wilkins" as names involved.

I was so happy when we passed on him. He seems like a good kid and I would like to see him improve his game, but I wasn't overly impressed with him coming out. He also has one more almost insurmountable thing going against him...he's from Ohio State...and all of their QB's tend to suck in the NFL.

No doubt in my mind that we would have lost today if he didn't play in the game.

We'd be in really good shape if we had not gone for two points on our last TD.

Last season I saw/read a story that said DB's around the league could tell what we were doing in the passing game. That could be why we had so much difficulty in the 2nd half, especially in the 3rd quarter. Teams figured out what was coming and the DC's would call plays to neutralize the offense.

Our "defense first" philosophy has never won a championship. Our defensive coaches can't even post back to back winning seasons. Look at some of the defensive coaches that have won SB's Tom Landry (Staubach), Chuck Knoll (Bradshaw), Bill Belichik (Brady), Mike Tomlin (Big Ben), Tony Dungy (Manning), Jimmy Johnson (Aikman), They all had quarterback who could light up a score board. They wouldn't have won anything with the QB's and/or offensive schemes we've put on the field the past seasons. Defense does win you championships as long as you have an offense that can outscore the other team. In today's NFL I'd rather have a great offense and middle of the road defense than vice versa.

As some one said earlier, we just need to hit the right HC/GM combo. It was a bad idea to keep Hurney after Rivera was let go. Tepper should have hired a GM and worked with him to get a coach to properly launch the next era of Panther football. Tepper got rid of the arguably the best coach we ever had (Ron Rivera); and kept a previously fired GM who promptly hired the arguably the worst coach we've ever had (Matt Rule). He then got rid of Hurney and let the Rhule influence the hiring of the current GM. And, as the podcast stated "they're not on the same page." I wouldn't be in a rush to trade any of our good pieces on offense (CMAC or DJ). If we hit on a young (and inexpensive) QB he's going to need guys like them to help him out on the field. What we need is a offensive minded coach who understands how to effectively use the pieces he has, draft wisely, and knows how to game plan and make adjustments on Sundays.

The NFL has significantly changed since I was kid. The current game is heavily tilted in favor of the offense. I agree with you on the need to try something different and break the defensive HC cycle. The Panthers have been a NFL franchise for over 25 years and still haven't posted back to back winning seasons. I think we would break that trend if we had a coach who specialized in outscoring opponents instead of relying on a strong running game and stingy defense to win week in and week out.