SCO96

I'm ok with the the 2022 picks in exchange for moving up in a draft. No way I'm giving up #1 picks in back to back years for a trade if I'm a rebuilding franchise with holes at LB, S, CB, WR, TE, DT, DE, and possibly even RB (if Foremen isn't resigned). The cost to trade up is too expensive. If a team trades back, I think parting with your #1 and #2 makes sense. A one and three is too much IMHO, but I could live with that because your debt is paid one year after you made the deal. These days if you make a move to trade up 6 spots one season, two years later you're still expected to give up you highest draft choice. Ridiculous. Based on draft history, the top two QB's off the board will not be the only two QB's capable of playing in the NFL. They possibly may not even be the two best QB in their draft class. That mentality basically says we have an incompetent coaching staff that can only develop and win with 2 guys in the 2023.draft. I don't think that's the case at all.

Here's what Chicago would ultimately be getting for trading the most prized pick in the draft A first rounder 8 spots lower than where they started One extra pick in the 3rd and 4th rounds. An extra #1 pick in 2024 An extra #3 pick in 2024. If Fields turns out to be a legit starter in the NFL, and Chicago hits on all of those choices it would/could help turn that team around immediately. Here's a look at the picks they already have. Round 1, No. 1 overall. Round 2, No. 56 overall (from Ravens) Round 3, No. 65 overall. Round 4, No. 103 overall. Round 4, No. 134 overall (from Eagles) Round 5, No. 136 overall. Round 5, No. 148/159 overall (from Ravens)* Round 7, No. 220 overall. If we really coveted a guy at the top of the draft that's not a bad deal at all for us. I'd take that deal immediately before they changed their mind. Could be a win-win for both teams.

Just got a bite to eat on my lunchbreak. I was listening to Cowherd on the way to and from the restaurant. He was talking to Peter Schrager. The latter said that Tyrek made about 30 million this year with the Dolphins. The Chiefs got a #1 and a #2 in addition to the #4, #5, #6 in the 2023 draft. KC just won the SB and the combined salary for the 5-6 WR's on the roster was $20 million. They also had about 10 rookies on the roster start or make valuable contributions to their roster. You can't pay everyone, so you have to prioritize. NFL rosters are bloated on the top in terms of pay. But you have to have solid contributions from guys lower on the pay scale. A smart from office is able to find those guys in the draft or acquire some overlooked, but 2nd tier guys in FA and stay w/in the salary cap. When you start trading away several high draft picks in several consecutive draft you can't build a solid team from top to bottom. You can get away for awhile if you're already a contender. However, bad to mediocre teams need those picks if they want to compete. This why I'd never trade 3 #1's for any player, or multiple picks in multiple drafts to move 5-8 spots in a draft to get the 1st or 2nd pick if my team was at the bottom of the NFL hierarchy.

I could live with that if you were pretty sure you were actually going to get a franchise QB. We'd be basically swapping picks in round one. We'd lose a #2, but we actually have an extra one b/c of the Christian trade to SF. They'd probably insist on the higher of the two. We'd lose Our 5th round pick, which is our lowest pick in the draft. We'd lose our #1 for next year. All the other picks would remain for 2024 and our portion of the deal would be complete. I could like with that if we absolutely knew had a franchise guy headed our way.

That's an understatement! We'd have 4 picks in the first 2 days of the draft. We could potentially come away with 4 solid starters before Day 3 of the draft.

I was listening to Colin Cowherd the other day. I think I heard him say that no team with a QB with a top 5 salary at his position to start the season has won a Super Bowl in the current day NFL. When a QB resets the market you almost guarantee his team will not win the Super Bowl. Mahomes, like Brady, realizes that as great as they are, they he can't do it alone. It's a team game. Those guys care more about winning than making a couple of extra million dollars per year. When you start winning SB rings whatever you don't get paid on the field, you can make up for it off the field with endorsement deals and business ventures.

In theory I agree. We could use the extra picks. But, that can be risky. Take a look at this link below in regards to Anthony Richardson. He's rated #3 on this list. This site and a couple of other feel he may be the QB with the highest upside in the 2023 draft. https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-top-10-quarterbacks/ If the first two guys are gone (Stroud and Young), and Anthony is sitting there at #9, you have to take him "IF" the coaching staff believes they can win with him. If you trade back you run the risk of having someone steal him from you before you're up again. I could live with that depending on the position, but not QB. If we took Richardson and he pans out we're set for the rest of the decade at QB. We'd still have the following: — our second-rounder — San Francisco's second-rounder — San Francisco's third-rounder — Our fourth-rounder — San Francisco's fourth-rounder — Our fifth-rounder We should come out of this draft with at minimum 3 starters after the 9th pick in the first round. Worst case scenario, he bombs. In 2024 we go after another guy in the first round and move up if we have to.

They didn't pin their hopes on a rookie QB The Rams won their SB with a seasoned veteran QB who was throwing for 4,000 yards on an annual basis in Detroit. Stafford was being held back by a Lion franchise that has never appeared in Super Bowl despite being one of the oldest franchises in the NFL. I'm glad you acknowledged that the staff "may" want a certain prospect. But what if they don't? There are people on this board who will have an emotional meltdown if we don't move up to the top 3 and pick they QB that "they want". I like they new regime. If they decide to move up then I'll support them. If they don't move up, then I'll support them. Man, we can't compare our front office with Philadelphia. They went 5 NFC title games and a SB when the had Reid &McNabb in the 2000's. The Eagles are almost always in contention in the NFC. Do you think we'd be concerned about moving up if the guys in the Philly front office was running our team? We are concerned about the Carolina front office screwing things up. I'm hoping Fitterer becomes the finest GM in the NFL. But, he still has to prove himself If we stay put at #9 and don't make any trades we will have 3 picks in the top 63. We should walk away with 3 starters in this years draft if we play our cards right. Sometimes the best player at a postion doesn't come off until the late 1st or 2nd round because of drat runs on other postions. Other times drafts are so deep that there isn't a big dropoff between the top 5 players in a position group, As for later picks being a risk the same thing applies to first round QB's. I think history proves that there is over a 50% but rate for round 1 quarterbacks. Every pick in the draft is really a crapshoot. You do know that we are already almost 10 million dollars over the cap, right? If we don't do some major restructuring and cut of couple of guys we won't lure be able sign any FA"s because we won't be able to afford them. We also could help our cap situation quite a bit if we could draft some good players in rounds 2-3 and have them on rookie deals for the next 4 seasons. If we trade for a QB into the top 3, the other team is going to want #1 picks in 2024 and 2025. Probably a #2 this year and possibly another a #2 or #3 in 2024 or 2025.. I don't feel too secure in the thought of Carolina trying to build a championship roster with a 2023 rookie QB and most of their picks in 2024 and 2025 coming in the 3rd round or later.

The most under rated element of that game was the Chief's offensive line. Brilliant performance. They didn't give up a sack. Between Mahomes and the RB's they averaged just over 6 yards per run. Even if you take out the QB scrambling, they still averaged over 5.5 yds per rushing attempt. If an O-line is not giving up QB sacks/pressures, and that team is averaging 6 yards per rushing attempt, then they're going to be hard to contain on offense for 4 quarters.

It seems that some people are convinced that the only way we're going to win a chanpionship in the immediate future is to draft CJ Stroud or Bryce Young in the top 3 and give up a slew of draft picks to do so. Once again, nobody has a problem trying to acquire a franchise QB in the draft draft. The point of disagreement is where to draft them. A lot of us just don't see Young or Stroud as "can't miss prospects". We also don't see the other QB's as automatic busts just becuse they won't be the first two QB's off the board. I'll admit that Stroud impressed me against GA. He even got me to reevaluate my anti-Ohio State. QB stance. If we picked him, I'll cheer him just as much as the rest of you. But, if he doesn't pan out, this franchise will likely be set back for the rest of the decade; and we won't have any high draft choices in 2024 or 2025 to correct the mistake or build depth in the other areas of need. We don't want to create a situation Payton has inherited in Denver. And, the lack of high draft choices lost via trades in LA has come back to bite the Rams bigtime.

There are 32 teams in the NFL. Half of 32 is 16. According to your data, if interpreted literally, every team on this list finished in the top half of the league in points allowed. So defensive performsnce is still important. You don't have to be great in all 3 phases of the pro game (O, D, ST), but you need to be good in all 3. If you're bad in any of them you won't win a championship.

They put 35 points last night. And unlike KC, they didn't get the benefit of having the defense score a touchdown. The offense was clicking last night in a lot of areas. I thought Steichen did rely too much on the runs between the tackles. They weren't effective. The running backs seemed more productive when they attacked the edges of the defense. Then again he may have abandoned the run game because he didn't feel it was going to be effective that day. If you subtract Jalen's carries, the RB stat line for the team was 17 carries/45 Yards...less than 3 yards per carry. If you took away Patrick's carries the Chiefs stat line was 20 carries/114 yards...that's 5.7 yards per carry. A more effective running game in the 2nd half would have controlled the clock, kept Mahomes on the bench, and give the defense some time to rest. The lack of the running game and the Eagles inability to really pressure Mahomes (the y didn't record 1 sack) were the biggest surprises for me last night.

Coaching really MATTERS in the NFL. Nick Foles didn't beat Tom Brady in a Super Bowl because he was a better QB. He beat him because his coach, Doug Pederson, outcoached Bill Belichick on Super Bowl Sunday. Last night Pat Mahomes threw 2 TD's in the red-zone to wide open targets who just walked in for the TD. . Plays were designed and called at the right time to make that happen. That's a sign great coaching. I expect to see that type of creativity with Frank Reich next season. I believe he can take a 1st round QB drafted outside the top 5, or a high 2nd rounder, and develop him into a legit starter.

We definitely wouldn't be be able to obtain the cream of the crop in the FA class this year with that cap room would we? This is why we need to hang on to those picks we have in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th rounds this year.

Completely and Parr: Are you guys saying that you would cut Shaq if you were in the front office? I'm not saying I disagree with you at all, but he did lead the team in tackles. He and Luvu both had over 100+ tackles. Our defense is would be significantly worse without him on the field in 2022. No other LB's on the roster reached 50 tackles. If we went that route wouldn't that mean we'd likely have to draft a replacement this off-season? I'd be inclined to say yes; which is why I don't like the idea of trading away multiple high draft choices in multiple seasons to move up to the top 5 in order to draft a QB. We already need playmakers at LB, S, DT, DE, CB, TE, and WR. Losing Shaq creates another void to feel. And, let's be honest...the answer isn't already on the roster.

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/carolina-panthers https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cap/ Both of these sites have us with over $28.5 million in dead cap space for 2023 and significantly over the cap to start the new season. Who are we gonna have to cut or restructure this off-season.

We can't always trust what comes out of the FO though. In 2021 Matt Rhule said that his "process was working" and that the team was getting better. Outside of JC Horn, Brian Burns, and possibly the surprise player of the year Frankie Luvu (100+ tackles, 7 sacks, and 1 INT) what big pieces would you say are in place? I'll admit he did a GREAT job on the O-line! As I pointed out earlier that defense is suspect. If we don't add any depth in 2022 and Burns ends up missing some games we literally do not have a pass rush. That's a big "IF". Bryce probably weighs less than most of us on this board and could get broken in half in the NFL. CJ Stroud comes from a OHIO STATE program that has NEVER produced a good pro QB the last 65 years. Yet, people feel that we need to mortgage our draft capital b/c these two "might be the guy" We can likely find a competent QB just as good as either at #9. It' like some are saying Frank Reich, McCown, and whoever we hire at OC can't win next year if we don't get Stroud or Young. A lot of us just don't see it that way.

None of the guys I mentioned were "piss poor quarterbacks". None were superstars but they knew to manage the game. Plukett won 2 SBs and his team were the underdogs in both of them. . They all played well win the team needed them the most. We'd all love to have a great QB behind center. My point that a good (not bad or below average, but good) QB can win in this league with a strong supporting cast. As great as Manning was, his teams lost by double digits in two Superbowls. Jake D played better in his loss to NE in SB 13 than Peyton played in any of his 4 SB appearances. And no, I don't think Dilfer would have won that game last night. But here's something interesting. Mahomes stat line was 21/27, 182 yards 3TDS and 0 INTs. He made some big plays by avoiding some sacks and scrambling that provided the margin of victory. But that you don't have to be an "ELITE QB" to put up stat-line like that. He made the plays when he needed to and he didn't make one mistake or take sack. If most teams could have their QB's play solid and mistake free football week in and week out they'll always be in contention for a championship. We disagree a bit, but thanks for keeping things civil.

People really aren't resistant to the idea that you need strong QB play to win a championship. We're resistant to the idea that giving up a several of our #1, #2 and possibly #3 draft picks in the in the 2023-2025 drafts to move up to get Bryce Young and CJ Stroud (neither is a sure bet to excel in the NFL) in the draft. Contrary to popular opinion, our roster is not that strong. We have some nice pieces in place. But we are not a stacked team by any measure. Our defensive tackles combined for 2 sacks on the season. One player (Brian Burns) is responsible for 12.5 of our 35 team sacks, and a segment on this board actually wants to trade him. Our 2nd leading pass rusher was a LB (Luvu had 7 sacks) we acquired in free agency. One D-lineman had 5 sacks, another had 2.5. No one else had more 1. Several didn't have any. Our Secondary had 10 INTs. Our Safeties didn't have any of them. A player who almost missed half the season was tied for 2nd on the team (2 INTS) with CJ Henderson who didn't miss a game. Our best corner had 3. The other 3 came from Luvu, Brown and Roy, the latter two are DT's. Christian was the 2nd leading receiver in 2022, despite playing half the season with another team. Outside of DJ, no wideout eclipsed 30 catches this year. Our TE's are not passing threats. They combined for 3 TD's (all by Tremble) and would not start on any team in the NFL. Shaq and Luvu had over 100 tackles. No other LB eclipsed 50. We could try to trade up and pick Stroud or Young, but we'd have to mortgage the future to do it. How do we fill the holes at DE, DT, OLB, S, WR, TE, and CB if we give away #1 ,#2 picks, #3 picks in 2023, 2024 and 2025? We can sit still at #9, grab a QB, and find starters for half of those positions in this years draft with our #2 and # 3 draft choices alone. Or you can grab BPA at #9, draft a rookie to groom later in the draft, and still fill multiple holes. And, if you did hold off on a QB this year (not ideal, but it could happen), we would literally be able to move up to a higher spot and part with draft choices in 2024 to get our for two reasons: 1) We'd have most of our holes already filled. 2) Every drafted starter on our team would be on their rookie deal in 2024 with the exception of Moton and DJ who have already been resigned and Burns who would be FA at the end of 2023.

Good post. But, QB's just don't "will their teams to victory". QB's don't block, catch passes (at least most of the time), make tackles, intercept passes and force fumbles, kick FG's, or run back kicks. You put a Mahomes, Brady, or Montana on a team that cannot competently do all of the above on a consistent basis, or when it matters most, they won't win SB's. If you put a Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Nick Foles, Jim Plunkett, Jeff Hostetler on a team that does all of the above very well and the the latter guys don't turn the ball over & make three or four big plays per game, and get the ball out on time, you can win with them. None of the top tier QB's you allude in your post to played on bad/mediocre teams.

It's a team game. There are no "one man gangs" in pro football. A great QB needs help on both sides of the ball to win championships. I grew up watching Dan Fouts lead "Air Coryell" threw most of the 1980's. Probably the best offense of the 80's in terms of yardage and points per game. They never made a SB b/c the defense couldn't stop anyone when it mattered in the playoffs Jalen Hurts played the game of his life last night...and lost. His fumble ended up being a factor in the loss, but if the Eagle defense and Special Teams had played better in the 2nd half he'd have a SB ring right now. Even Mahomes needed a defensive TD in the first half and big punt return/ST play that swung momentum in the 2nd half to win the game. Football is the ultimate team sport. You don't have to be great in all 3 phases of the game (Offense, Defense, Special teams). But, if you are mediocre to bad in any one of them you won't win a Super Bowl.

Great point. Look at the difference between the offensive line play in KC’s last two SB appearances.They couldn’t keep pressure off of Mahomes in the Tampa game or run the ball and got blown out. KC kept pressure off of Mahomes last night (I don’t think they even gave up a sack in the game), ran the ball well, and won their 2nd Super Bowl in 4 years.

Or or score a a TD to win the game.

I’ve never seen a QB win a Super Bowl that didn’t have a strong supporting cast on both sides of the all. Teams, not QBs, win championships. That’s why it would be ridiculous for us to trade away multiple high draft choices in multiple years to move up the 1st or 2nd spot in the draft to grab a QB. Outside of our O-line and possibly our RB tandem, what other position group in is actually strong on our team? We need help at DE, DT, LB, S, CB, WR, TE in addition to QB. The only reason we almost won the NFC South is because we played in the worst division in football in 2022. If a team claims the title at 8-9, even a 6-11 team can say “we only finished 2 games out first place”.

Stafford is living proof that a bad franchise can keep a player form reaching his potential or ultimate goal of winning a championship. We haven't had a winning season since 2017. We haven't had back to back winning season in our 28 year history. We've been so bad since Tepper acquired the team that I'd be happy to make the playoffs, win the division title and finish above .500 two years in a row.