SCO96

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t like Ohio State QBs. That said, after the national title I did post that CJ Stroud impressed me in the Georgia game. I think he would have won that game…and a national title…if Harrison Jr didn’t get hurt in the 2nd half. He displayed poise, good arm strength, and mobility/scrambling ability when needed. If any QB of Ohio State seemed poised to break the 70 year curse, it was Stroud. I wish him (and Demeco Ryan’s) well. No regrets at all about not drafting Justin Fields though. I’m not ready to thrown in the towel on Bryce yet. I think watching Dalton do his thing from the sidelines is actually going to help Bryce in the long run.

I'm sure Lions and Browns fans would be to differ.

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2022/11/06/rams-panthers-brian-burns-trade-offer-round-picks/ The Rams had put a 2024 first, 2025 first and a 2023 second-round pick on the table for Panthers pass-rusher Brian Burns. Carolina refused to give up one of its core pieces ---- For everyone upset that we didn't trade Burns, for two #1 picks I have a question for you. How much of an impact do you think the Rams 2023 2nd round pick would have helped us this year with the current FO/GM running the show? With the exception of Chinn who have we picked in the 2nd round since 2020 that has made a real impact on the field? Those 1st round picks would have been in 2024 and 2025. Based on what I've seen so far, I wouldn't have any faith in our FO to choose the right players to address our needs. Fitz would probably trade down and pass over the blue chip players to get more draft choices... and end up adding more JAGS to the roster. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I don't think he's proven to be the talent evaluator we thought he would be. Passing over Sam Howell and trading up to get Matt Corrall is inexcusable. Trading down to get TMJ made no sense at all since we passed over at least 4-5 lineman who could have started immediately and Robbie Anderson had just been extended. After we picked him, KC picked Creed Humphrey at Center 5 picks later and seems to be on the verge of becoming an All-Pro I don't even want to talk about the CJ Henderson and Sam Darnold trades. I think he's got until 2024 to turn this thing around. If things don't start trending up that's a sign it's time to bring someone else in to run the FO.

Everybody on this board hopes you're right about Bryce. After 5 straight losing seasons the Carolina nation needs something to cheer about. I know we don't want to turn the ball over in the air, but I could live with 15-20 INTS in his rookie season if those INTs were counterbalanced with 20-25 TD's and around 225-300 passing yards per game. At least there would be some excitement that he's trying to make something happen downfield & and showing signs that we could build a team around him as he matures. Right now, our passing game is literally painful to watch. It should be this bad with the 1st pick in the draft and the current "brain trust" we assembled for our 2023 coaching staff.

I sincerely "hope" you're wrong in your assessment and that Bryce is still a bit jittery as he adapts to the NFL game. "If" you're right about Bryce not being able to make certain NFL caliber throws then we may have made a major mistake in drafting him at #1. If he really can't make the throws, the DC's all around the NFL are going to start taking away all of the underneath stuff once they realize he can't beat them going deep. A QB can be intelligent and accurate on his throws and still be a liability if the his arm lacks the zip to throw into tight windows. Chad Pennington would have had a good-great career if not for the arm injuries that robbed him of his throwing power. Unfortunately, Chad got hurt after he entered a the league which makes it understandable why his arm strength declined. Picking a guy who can't make the throws coming out of college is a major whiff by the FO.

None of us really know what goes on behind the scenes, but at times our FO amazes me. Last season Donta Foreman played extremely well. He almost reached a 1,000 yards despite not even starting a game after a quarter of the season was completed. Chubba Hubbard was a good compliment to him. They combined for nearly 1,400 yards on the ground and averaged over 4.5 yds per carry. They let Foreman go in the offseason. Our running game was fine last season. Now Donta in Chicago on a one year deal for $2million. We signed Miles Sanders to a 4year/$25.4 mil deal (over $6mil per year). That's not bad for a running back with Sanders skill set and 2022 production. But, we really didn't need him. We could have used that money elsewhere...like the WR position or on the defense. Our backs clearly showed that they were well suited for our O-line. We didn't lose any starters to other teams. We kept our o-line coach. Last years running game would be a benefit to Bryce. It limits the number of times he has to drop back, take time off of the clock to limit the other teams time of possession, and it opens up the play-action pass. Now, we're lacking that the above elements and it's really affecting our ability to move the ball and score points.

Do you think we have a guy on the roster to make that play? One of the reasons I'm down on Fitz is the WR situation. We've taken two receivers in the 2nd round since he's been around (TMJ and Mingo). I think most of us would agree that a receiver taken in those rounds should be more than a possession receiver. They need to be difference makers. The jury is still out out on Mingo since he is a rookie. Still, I thought we would have seen more attempts to get him the further downfield. I haven't seen anything from TMJ in our system to suggest he's anything more than a JAG who can be easily replaced. I think Theilan and Hurst are what we expected them to be. But, we need at least one playmaker (preferably two) who can stretch the field.

I think Williams should stay in school for his senior year if the Cardinals or Bears have the #1 and #2 picks in the draft.

OR OHIO STATES'!

I really haven't followed Caleb Williams much or even really watched him play outside of highlights on tv. I'm usually not that familiar with NCAA football if doesn't involve the SEC, Clemson, or a couple of other blueblood programs like Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, and Oklahoma. I can't comment on what you put in your post. However, in this one instance I'd support him wholeheartedly if he did not want to play for the Chicago Bears. Over 70 years after his retirement in the early 50's, Sid Luckman still ranks 2nd all time on the Bears in TDs and passing yards. He may even have the 2nd highest QBR rating. That's a mindboggling statistic.

Caleb Williams is a junior and has already won the Heisman Trophy. You know he's ready to join the NFL in 2024. But, if I were his family member or a potential agent, under no circumstances would I allow him to leave college if Chicago had the first pick in the draft. I'd do one of the following: 1) pull an Andrew Luck and stay in school. 2) tell Chicago not to draft me like John Elway told Baltimore in 1983 3) have a deal worked so I could be traded to another team on draft day (Eli Manning) Caleb is headed for disaster if he's drafted by the Bears in 2024.

I was never a Justin Fields fan. As soon as I saw OHIO STATE on his resume it was an easy pass. I have no regrets about us not drafting him. That said, I feel bad for him. He needs a solid offensive head coach (or a really top end OC) to help him develop. As soon as Chicago went with a defensive HC I knew Fields was going to struggle out of the gate this season.

I feel the same way. With the exception of Carson Palmer (who had a good, but not an exceptional career) I honestly can't think of ANY OTHER USC QB's that had a "good" NFL career...and I'm actually old enough to remember Pat Haden playing for the LA Rams in the late 1970's.

Jon, What are your thoughts on current USC stud QB Caleb Williams?

Mahomes was drafted by KC in 2017 but only threw 35 passes his rookie season. He didn't start until 2018. From 2013 (Reid's 1st year) through 2017 KC made the playoffs 4 times and their worst season during that stretch was a 9-7 2nd place division finish in 2014. The Chiefs were a good, but not great, team with Alex Smith at quarterback. Mahomes inherited a supporting cast that was a whole lot better than what Bryce is working with in Carolina. The Panthers have had 5 straight losing seasons prior to Bryce Young's arrival. Mahomes joined a team that had 5 straight winning seasons before he took over as starter. It's unfair to compare their first seasons as starters.

I actually see your point. If I sign a 5 year/100mil contract with a guarantee of of $60 million over 3 years and get a large signing bonus up front, I wouldn't complain too much if I didn't see year 4. I would know going into the deal that once the guarantee was gone I'd be on thin ice so to speak. I have no problem with players maximizing their revenue in general. My problem is with guys who want deals that take up nearly 20% the cap space for a single position and then complain about needing more help to perform better. If you demand anywhere from 25 to 50 million per season to play QB, pass rusher, or WR...how on earth do you expect the team to have solid depth from top to bottom? If you think you're worth that much, go out and earn the money and put the team on your back week in and week out. If a GM paid top dollar to the three positions above almost half of your cap space would be gone before you could pay the other 50 players on the roster. The whole idea of having to win a SB while your QB is on a rookie deal seems backwards. It should easier to win a SB as a QB matures and hits his mid-late 20's. In the NFL it's harder because those guys take up so much cap space their teams will always having some glaring hole/weakness.

I live a pretty unremarkable/sheltered life. I knew absolutely NOTHING about this. Thanks for the information gentlemen.

Guys, what exactly is is K2

Total yards/yards per game: (5,474/320.0) 7th Total passing yards/yards per game: (3,574, 210.2) 12th Total rushing yards/yards per game: (1,866, 109.8) 10th Total points/points per game: (359, 21.1) 14th Takeaways: 23 (15 INTS, 8 Fumbles) 15th Sacks: 36 23rd ---- Last year Denver finished in the top 15 of every major defensive statistic except sacks. Their sack total was 1 better than our 35 despite not having one player on the team finishing with more than 6.5. That was impressive considering Denver 1) played in the tougher conference (AFC), 2) played in a tough division...they had to play the Chiefs and Chargers a combined 4 times in 2022 3) had the worst scoring offense the league...16.9 pts per game. ---- I can see our defense matching or improving on those numbers since we play in a worse division, a weaker conference, and have a better offense. We averaged 20.4 pts with Sam Darnold, PJ Walker, and Baker Mayfield behind center. With the new and improved offense and coaching staff I can say i haven't been this excited about Panther football since the 2015-2017 era.

Thanks for the reply. I had no idea you'd go into this much detail. I was expecting a link to an earlier post or website. Good stuff. Your post needs to have it's on topic/thread. .

As I've gotten older I've become more interested in defensive schemes. You made a comment about Evero's defense funneling plays toward CB1. Do you happen to know where you saw that. I barely paid any attention to the Broncos last year. I'm clueless in regards to their scheme. Any information about what we can expect this year would be appreciated.

Warren Sapp once said that the shortest route to the QB is right up the middle. That's why coaches put so much emphasis on blocking interior lineman that are able to get after the QB. None of us expect Brown to have Aaron Donald numbers year in and year out. But, I think he needs to do better than 2 sacks per year (he has 6 total sacks from 2020-2022) "if" his management team thinks he's worth over $15 mil per season. You can find a big body in the draft after the 1st round to replace his production and use that type of money elsewhere.

I tend to lean toward your opinion. I was never big on the pick. It reminded me of what we did in 2016 when we drafted Vernon Butler in round 1, another DT who wasn't a dominant factor in the passing game. I agree that we need to see how 2023 plays out to see if DB is the guy we want to stick with for the rest of the decade. I hope he balls out. But, I do have one question for those who feel like we "must" retain him. If he had not been drafted by us in 2020 and was scheduled to hit the market after the 2024 season...based on what you have seen so far... would you want to spend 15-20 mil per season to acquire him as a FA? I'd have to say no.

This one sentence post may be the best one I've read since we began this topic. After looking back on the disaster known as the "Rhule Era", I think your reasoning applies to any remaining roster players drafted by Carolina from 2020-2022. Most of those guys have yet to experience solid coaching at a professional level.

I totally agree with your assessment on his talent level. To be frank, I'd have doubts signing him to a 14-15 mil per year; especially if I had holes to major holes to fill on the team and had a player or two on the roster capable of giving me similar production at a much lower cost.