SCO96

I feel the same way. With the exception of Carson Palmer (who had a good, but not an exceptional career) I honestly can't think of ANY OTHER USC QB's that had a "good" NFL career...and I'm actually old enough to remember Pat Haden playing for the LA Rams in the late 1970's.

Jon, What are your thoughts on current USC stud QB Caleb Williams?

Mahomes was drafted by KC in 2017 but only threw 35 passes his rookie season. He didn't start until 2018. From 2013 (Reid's 1st year) through 2017 KC made the playoffs 4 times and their worst season during that stretch was a 9-7 2nd place division finish in 2014. The Chiefs were a good, but not great, team with Alex Smith at quarterback. Mahomes inherited a supporting cast that was a whole lot better than what Bryce is working with in Carolina. The Panthers have had 5 straight losing seasons prior to Bryce Young's arrival. Mahomes joined a team that had 5 straight winning seasons before he took over as starter. It's unfair to compare their first seasons as starters.

I actually see your point. If I sign a 5 year/100mil contract with a guarantee of of $60 million over 3 years and get a large signing bonus up front, I wouldn't complain too much if I didn't see year 4. I would know going into the deal that once the guarantee was gone I'd be on thin ice so to speak. I have no problem with players maximizing their revenue in general. My problem is with guys who want deals that take up nearly 20% the cap space for a single position and then complain about needing more help to perform better. If you demand anywhere from 25 to 50 million per season to play QB, pass rusher, or WR...how on earth do you expect the team to have solid depth from top to bottom? If you think you're worth that much, go out and earn the money and put the team on your back week in and week out. If a GM paid top dollar to the three positions above almost half of your cap space would be gone before you could pay the other 50 players on the roster. The whole idea of having to win a SB while your QB is on a rookie deal seems backwards. It should easier to win a SB as a QB matures and hits his mid-late 20's. In the NFL it's harder because those guys take up so much cap space their teams will always having some glaring hole/weakness.

I live a pretty unremarkable/sheltered life. I knew absolutely NOTHING about this. Thanks for the information gentlemen.

Guys, what exactly is is K2

Total yards/yards per game: (5,474/320.0) 7th Total passing yards/yards per game: (3,574, 210.2) 12th Total rushing yards/yards per game: (1,866, 109.8) 10th Total points/points per game: (359, 21.1) 14th Takeaways: 23 (15 INTS, 8 Fumbles) 15th Sacks: 36 23rd ---- Last year Denver finished in the top 15 of every major defensive statistic except sacks. Their sack total was 1 better than our 35 despite not having one player on the team finishing with more than 6.5. That was impressive considering Denver 1) played in the tougher conference (AFC), 2) played in a tough division...they had to play the Chiefs and Chargers a combined 4 times in 2022 3) had the worst scoring offense the league...16.9 pts per game. ---- I can see our defense matching or improving on those numbers since we play in a worse division, a weaker conference, and have a better offense. We averaged 20.4 pts with Sam Darnold, PJ Walker, and Baker Mayfield behind center. With the new and improved offense and coaching staff I can say i haven't been this excited about Panther football since the 2015-2017 era.

Thanks for the reply. I had no idea you'd go into this much detail. I was expecting a link to an earlier post or website. Good stuff. Your post needs to have it's on topic/thread. .

As I've gotten older I've become more interested in defensive schemes. You made a comment about Evero's defense funneling plays toward CB1. Do you happen to know where you saw that. I barely paid any attention to the Broncos last year. I'm clueless in regards to their scheme. Any information about what we can expect this year would be appreciated.

Warren Sapp once said that the shortest route to the QB is right up the middle. That's why coaches put so much emphasis on blocking interior lineman that are able to get after the QB. None of us expect Brown to have Aaron Donald numbers year in and year out. But, I think he needs to do better than 2 sacks per year (he has 6 total sacks from 2020-2022) "if" his management team thinks he's worth over $15 mil per season. You can find a big body in the draft after the 1st round to replace his production and use that type of money elsewhere.

I tend to lean toward your opinion. I was never big on the pick. It reminded me of what we did in 2016 when we drafted Vernon Butler in round 1, another DT who wasn't a dominant factor in the passing game. I agree that we need to see how 2023 plays out to see if DB is the guy we want to stick with for the rest of the decade. I hope he balls out. But, I do have one question for those who feel like we "must" retain him. If he had not been drafted by us in 2020 and was scheduled to hit the market after the 2024 season...based on what you have seen so far... would you want to spend 15-20 mil per season to acquire him as a FA? I'd have to say no.

This one sentence post may be the best one I've read since we began this topic. After looking back on the disaster known as the "Rhule Era", I think your reasoning applies to any remaining roster players drafted by Carolina from 2020-2022. Most of those guys have yet to experience solid coaching at a professional level.

I totally agree with your assessment on his talent level. To be frank, I'd have doubts signing him to a 14-15 mil per year; especially if I had holes to major holes to fill on the team and had a player or two on the roster capable of giving me similar production at a much lower cost.

Brown was picked in the top 10 of the 2020 draft. We have him under contract for two more seasons. There was no need to trade him this offseason. He could still blossom into something special, especially with all of the coaching changes we've made for 2023. But, if he doesn't become more dominant, I probably wouldn't be that opposed to moving him before the 2024 season. If I were offered a #1, or very high 2nd round pick, I'd be strongly inclined to take the deal.

I think it is questionable to call Derrick Brown a legit pass rushing DT. Our DT's combined for 2 sacks last season. DB got 1/2 of that number. I'm old enough to remember Joe Greene and Randy White dominating from the entire line in the late 1970's. I've seen guys like John Randle, Warren Sapp, Bryant Young, Howie Long terrorize QB's from the DT position. Today, Aaron Donald averages more sacks than most DE's. Those type of guys are worth $20 million a season. Thirty-two year old Fletcher Cox has 7 sacks for the Eagles in 2022 despite being several years past his prime. I could even see paying a 25-26 year old Cox that type of money. "So far" Brown hasn't proven to be that type of player. If his current level of play continues thru his current contract and he asks for $20 million a year to resign, then it would be in our best interest to let him move on. You hit the nail on the head when you said "if he continues to improve". I'd take that even further. He needs to become a dominant player at his position before I'd even consider dishing out that type of money. As a GM, if I knew he was looking for that type of contract I'd start looking for his replacement in the draft over the next two seasons in order to have someone ready to replace when/if we decided to part ways.

The 4 hardest positions to fill with "elite talent" (via draft, FA, or trade) are QB, Pass rushing DE, LT, and CB. Those positions are going to almost always command the highest salaries on a competitive football team. If your roster is set at those positions and your team had an above "average O-line" , the franchise should be in the playoff hunt year in and year out. If you have "good players, if not great players" at the other positions you probably going to be a SB contender.

The die has been cast, so there is no going back. But, situations like this is why its obvious that the NFL salary structure ridiculous. Non QB players taken in the draft can go from making 4-5 million per year, or less, to 4-5 times that amount on a 2nd deal. It's great for the player, but when you have 52 other active roster players tough decisions have to be made. I can see why some would be hesitant to pay Burns. I also realize that talented pass rushers don't grow on trees. If they did everyone would have one. You just can't let a guy responsible for 1/3 of your sacks walk away without a sure thing on the roster to take his place...especially when he's only 25 and hasn't even hit reached his prime. I say pay the man. Build a solid team around Bryce and try to reach the SB by 2025. At the same time, you need to start making roster moves to have a young pass rusher (two pass rushers ideally ) in place on their rookie deals when it's time to pay Bryce the big money in 2026. Burn would be coming to the end of his 2nd deal and you could possibly be in a position let him walk if his future salary is too high for the cap.

Burns had 1/3 (12.5) of our total sacks (35) last year, with no true passing rusher threat any where else on the D-line. Marques Haynes had 4 sacks. No one else on the team even managed 3. Our DT's combined for a grand total of TWO. Our 2nd leading sacker was Frankie Luvu (7), an OLB. Despite the lack of help on the line it seemed like half of our message board couldn't wait to get rid him heading into the 2023 season for draft picks(s) which in all likelihood wouldn't come close to replacing his production in the rookie season. I'd say that Brian Burns is definitely undervalued by "some" of the Panther fans.

It's fair to say that no player on our roster played up to their potential under Matt Rhule. I wouldnt be surprised to all of the roster players he drafted improve by leaps and bound in 2023. Good post. I hope your optimism for these two pays off this season...and beyond.

Marty was so bad as a GM that I don't believe he was ever asked to interview with another team for a GM job or any other front office position. We can only imagine how different things would have been if Richardson had brought in a GM with a different perspective and a better eye for talent after he let Gettleman go prior to the 2017 season. Perhaps the O-line would have been fixed; keeping Cam from ever getting hurt. We were 6-2 I think before the bottom fell out in 2018. Perhaps Rivera never loses his job. Or, if he did get fired we could have hired a coach more adept with dealing with the offensive side of the ball in the modern NFL., Rhule almost cetainly would have never been hired, and our draft classes would likely have been much better after our 1st round selection Instead, Richardson went back with Hurney as an "interim GM" and decided to keep him on until he sold the team to Tepper...which has resulted in 5 strait losing seasons.

Great comment. I think you can make an argument that coaching is more important in football than any other of the major professional sports. How many time have we've seen players labeled as bust or cut only to see them flourish under the tutelage of another coaching staff. I'm not sad that either player is gone. But let's be honest. If this current coaching staff was coaching last year's team, I think the Panthers would have won our division with either Mayfield or Darnold playing the majority of the snaps behind center. They would have been able to get the most out of both guys, something that Rhule and Wilks were unable to do.

Haynes was third on the team in sacks with 5, behind Luvu (7) and Burns (12.5). He’s 29 and should be in his prime right now. With the new 3-4 the team may use him more as a standup rusher. This could make him more effective since ESPN is listing his weight at 235…which is awfully light for a 4-3 DE.

I like Bryce Young. I admire the willingness of the team to move up and get us out of our QB purgatory. The front office picked him so we have to roll with him. That said, my thoughts about Hooker are similar to yours. He played against some of the best competition week in and week out in the SEC (TN even beat Bryce and BAMA when they played this past season). Carolina could have probably nabbed him at #39 without giving up DJ, a 2nd and 3rd this year, a #1 in 2024, and a #2 in 2025. Anyway, the die has been cast. All we can do now is see how things pan out in 2023.

It isn't Burns' fault we've only had 22 wins the past years. That lies on Tepper's decision to hire Rhule in 2020. Rhule was the worst coaching hire in franchise history. No one will dispute that. As soon as Rhule was shown the door, this team rallied and almost made the playoffs w/out a top 20 player at the QB position. Burns will probably have a breakout season in 2023 if he can stay healthy. The 3-4 defense may make him even more effective as a pass rusher and the DC is among the best in the league right now. I'm looking forward to seeing how he does with the new scheme and coaching staff.

So glad we didn't make that deal. Those type of trades should happen when you're overstocked at a position, you're tearing down the team for a massive rebuild, or you know there's a guy you can acquire (FA or draft) who is a sure fire bet to equal or exceed the departing players production. Carolina had 35 sacks last year. Burns had 12.5 of them. Haynes had 5 sacks. No other lineman on our roster exceeded had 3 sacks. Our DT's combined for a total of 2 sacks. Our second best rusher was Frankie Luvu (7 sacks). Our ability to rush the passer would be greatly diminished w/out Burns. Now with the new coordinator, we can better utilize Burns and add more players to strengthen the pass rush.