Basbear

@stbugs @iamhubby1 @kungfoodude Gantt stated what I said weeks ago, a panther employee said Moton is not on Ram's level. The difference form elite RT and next level(where Moton is) is one of the biggest, about 6-12 million.

Ridley is just as good as DJ, the difference is DJ is two years younger.

Wild is a good term for Scot's arc. Bizarre highs and lows, I will say this- he does make huddle content. At times it did reach a hourly update blog type feel with saying no time blah blah. Still content is king and it covers up plenty, plus not my place to tell others how to post here.

Not much to disagree with- I have the same OL, WR, TE, ST, and DL. The others fall to where I disagree with who the last player is- example at RB I have Cannon over BonBon. (nitpicking) No FB......plus honestly QB is a mess after gringer cringer. I just really soured on both Walker or Grier this off-season. I have seen enough and neither are the future or worth a panther spot. Backup needs to be address now(via trade or claim) and near the very top the coming off-season. I have learned over and over, do NOT discount ST aces. I have Julian Stanford over my 2019 under-dawg favorite CMiller. I also have Myles Hartsfield making the team and feel thats your biggest mistake here. Hill is off the team to make move, Hart started some to end the season, reason for Corn benching. Hes a top athlete and can play about anywhere in the back 7. I maybe alone but my main worries are with LB, not Safety. Clay Johnson could make the team, need SOMEONE to step up and he knows the brain waves Rhule likes. It has to help some, that his dad works for panthers and a former strength coach(I think Green bay). I love the PS guesses, I feel this year it will be a strength. The big deal is injuries.....Panthers have sooooooo many players with past injury history. That will for sure completely ruin most roster predictions this year. I also think panthers will claim 2-3 players during cuts. My guess is they will come form these groups- LB, OL, QB(maybe TE/FS). Overall I am happy with the "rebuild" at this year 2 point, I look forward to becoming a "sunshine" gang member in 2022 when I post playoff after playoff thread/post.

Bookmarked for morning morning toilet time ...

Does the OL need to block for 5 seconds if the design is to pass under 3? It allows you to cover up a weakness, just gives options. Not to make this more confusing, but the OL at some point has to prove they can somewhat run block as well. Thousand factors for OL= play calls, QB, game situation, etc. If the play caller is having a great day, the OL looks great. I still agree with having focus on elite OL, but also understand their are other ways. Alex Gibbs made a system where you didnt need a elite OL and my god it worked GREAT. I believe the panthers are going to move in the Gibbs/zone model some this season.

Pass on that 3rd year tag. Its a tool for the.....well smart GMs to use. Think about it back-to-back tags is a bargain. I mean a few big money deals only last two as well. Just after two years Moton is closer to death's door of the NFL= 30 years old. Yea OL do/can play a little longer, still right now its looking like the smart play for the panthers is two year tag. Then they have the chance at finally agreeing to a deal or getting an 3rd comp.

"*Shoot for*" much like old OL coaches want the line to block for 8 seconds. They want the time as low as possible in making a pass. In a way you could remove all OL except for the C and still get a pass off so long as the DTs are DTs and not ADonald. That makes the having a elite DL less useful, in the sense they no longer impact the game as much. Plus you dont need an elite cast of OL. I use to think that DL was the only way, that changes when QBs gets the ball nano fast. I was also a zone-CB believer too. Man-to-Man forces the Offenses to change the quick release play calls, thus helping bring value back to DL. If you dont change the play call, the WR must win or the CB is housing the ball. Honestly its a marriage deal between DL and DBs, they need one another.

That maybe dated thinking, for years now most Offenses have been getting the ball out faster. Many teams shoot for less than 2.0 seconds form snap to pass. Of course QB has to catch the snap-start throwing motion-release. I member a old sport science vid on this topic. Just a adjustment has been made to counter elite DLmen, you dont even have to block them, just impede their move path to the QB. Found it Ive said a few times before this, if YGM was in this year's draft, he would have been an 1st rounder, Im about 99% sure. He may have been the first DL picked as well, just a super poor year for DL. Its still early but Herniay's last draft is feeling like Gman's last draft. It maybe the best one in Herniay's career even with most of the 4-7 guys getting cut this year. YGM can play some DT as well, hes one of the true wild cards on the team. If the switch gets flipped...... panthers will give good teams big problems with Burns, Brown, and YGM all needing doubles/attention. Right now I feel YGM will be a better Mike Rucker. YGM is a real 6'5, around 270 with good strength. Hes basically one of the top projects for strength coach Jeremy Scott. If he reports at a focused 285 LBs and added some pass rush moves, watch-out now....

I heard that long ago, I thought for sure the huddle had a small thread on the report. I could not find the thread cause search function is _________ and I looked around twitter some, no luck either. I swear Joe Person or Brent Jensen or a lesser known reported this, I feel it was about two years ago. The wording was like " Moton's team is asking for LT money and the panthers are reluctant to do so". Then in the discussion someone talked about Herniay never paying RT and listed a few example like keeping Bell for 5 years and Remmers for a few as well, at low salary.

This is how bad I am, days after the draft I wanted to talk who would be on the 16 man practice squad....LOL. I posted threads like this in past and they got buried fast cause no body replies. Its a hard-core die hard type of fan thing. Honestly thats why I love the board this time of year, in my view the real fans are still posting here during this dead time.....I post much less during the in-season games.

DCs have moved around pass rushers much more in recent years. They are attacking weakness, that has not charge. If the RT has trouble with speed rushers, put Burns there after a different DE worn him down. Most QBs are right handed, that means the blind-side is still protected by LT. League's cap has nearly increase the cap 2x since 2007, teams are taking the time to pay RT while dropping that added space on OGs. I try to stay with the times and even try to predict the future. I do feel the league is wrong about how they value C and TE, Ive said that for years. Again the puzzle is 53 spots and 200 million to give. SOME positions are going to get shorted compared to others. League and me agreed that RT is not as valued as LT and most OGs. I even go to say C has more value. All the first comments about DC moving pass rushers more, the C has to make adjusts in seconds.... I give the credit to my Favoite panther OC Dan Henning for stating many years ago "C is the most important/valued OL spot, NOT LT" I still place LT above, but hes somewhat right. We do not have all the facts about Moton and him not playing LT. I could only guess, still that is where you get 20+. Id be fine with that even if he was a very good LT, but hes not and we do not know why.

Its an different way to label the money/cap. 47 is a little more than I thought if those are factored in and not twice like I was trying to correct them. Shaq I didnt want to sign, but they did after Luke told them "Im retiring"...I still like Shaq just not at the contract/price hes getting. Im sure cutting him will be talked about in the off-season.....just at some point the dead money has to stop(the huge type). Yea WR is in much better hands than OL, that hurts my preferring Moore >> Moton. I just dont want to lose Moore, Burns or choosen-one Darnold by giving 20+ for Moton to play RT. No question OL needs more talent and losing Moton does not help. Just it crosses the line wanting 20+ million, tough choice to make. You do value RT much higher than I do. My placement in the 13th area form 22 ranked positions.. Just only OL its about 4th out of 5 with LT and C being very far ahead. OL is mess for 2022 if the rookies dont become at least decent. Honestly I super worried about C, cause no faith in Elf at all. While not the most valued, C is the most important.

Post in reply to hubby= Look at this my friend. Before, know this Lane Johnson was going to play LT at some point. My eyes maybe off....but I see LOTS more OGs in the top 20 than RTs.....plus Ram is new. So quick recap- Lane signed with intentions of playing LT and Ram just signed days ago....... Only two RTs by name in the top 20 and I just gave reasons for each. Again Im the crazy one for not wanting to over-pay a very good RT. Panthers over paided at RB and LB......RT is about the same value too, might as well go full tard. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/offensive-line/limit-100/ This backs up what Ive been stating, league doesnt value RT as LT. Only if you are in the NFC west or some other insane division where its loaded at LDE. That was the reason why the raiders signed Trent Brown to a insane contract to play RT. It didnt work out but I understood why playing against Millers, Bosa, hali etc.

Look at this my friend. Before, know this Lane Johnson was going to play LT at some point. My eyes maybe off....but I see LOTS more OGs in the top 20 than RTs.....plus Ram is new. So quick recap- Lane signed with intentions of playing LT and Ram just signed days ago....... Only two RTs by name in the top 20 and I just gave reasons for each. Again Im the crazy one for not wanting to over-pay a very good RT. Panthers over paided at RB and LB......RT is about the same value too, might as well go full tard. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/offensive-line/limit-100/

What if Moton would only sign for 25 million per with 60% guaranteed? Say another team will give that to him if panthers dont as well. You still agree? Just lines are a thing and Moton/agent/crew wanting top 5 OL to play a lesser valued spot, thats too much for my taste. At what point you is yours? Roster turn-over is around 40% each year, I think the panthers drafted some Moton insurance with brady christensen.... I mean say christ is a ok RT, just average, is Moton worth 18x the cost? This gos back to the Norman deal. I just wanted to tag Norman and that be it, no long term deal for a older zone CB cause they have similar value to RT....... In steps Bradberry whom played decent for a rookie, so was Norman 15x the player Bradberry was? In my book nope, BIG nope. Panthers/gman goal-line fumbled this whole deal tho, still some comparisons can be made to Motons current deal. I was right there too......

Very high, RT maybe the least out of the 5. Yes I am hung up on not paying a very good player elite/top 5 money form another spot, yes......people acting like thats crazy, LOLolol! I answered most in my other reply. Buy a projector and hook up voice chat while youre dusting and washing dishes! I got work/chores to do as well before the weekend as well, lucky most are all done!

It does feel like I am undervaluing the RT, but you have to make hard choices since its impossible to pay all 25 spots top money. OL is important, very much. I have LT and C as wayyyy more valuable and depending on the system RG or LG maybe more as well. In recent years I have greatly changed my OG value, as has the NFL given the contracts as well. Past years I wouldnt have touched a OG before the mid-3rd at best, NFL changed and I did too. RT has sorta replaced OG in "value" terms for me. The OL needs to be rebuilt with or without Moton. IF Moton is getting 20+ mill per year for RT, that will make harder on filling other spots including the other 4 OLmen. 3 people on my side, no big deal. Popular opinions well....you know.(I wonder whats the most popular song is currently?) Lets just say at least its not chuck agreeing with me and MHS is. I know this is unpopular, very unpopular line of thinking with a very good player such as Moton. But that ends when your talking top 5 OL money for a non-elite Moton playing a lesser valued spot.

I thought the charge should be listed under "dead cap" since both are free agents and not on the roster. They could re-sign but the number would be different. Mis-understanding unless the numbers add up correctly on the left. Youre hung up on those numbers given to panther FAs, rough estimate after great years for all with the given super increase in cap via TV money. Even if theres 200 million in cap space, I totally disagree with paying a very good RT top 5 LT money, NO WAY! You and most others feel different, and you gave a very good effort...a real Moton performance!! But at last my mind hasnt changed, too set in my beliefs. They have served me very well and been proven over history. Right about Moore and his weak TDs, no defensive except blaming others(QBs, OCs). Just to add TDs and WRs are a.....how do I say....they dont go hand in hand. Juilo Jones(as others) have had super low TDs for a few years in elite careers. That field is smaller closer to goal-line less room to work for type of WR that Moore is. For sure tho, TDs number are weak, but hes the only WR to reach 1,200 scrimmage yards in each of the last 2 seasons. Thats very impressive feat, given all the other elite WRs. Shame its harder to compare to RT, since they dont have "stats". You maybe right about me over-valuing the WR, there are more in draft the last couple years. League has a good, not perfect method to show value, they pay WR nearly 2x the average of RTs it feels like. Wraping this up, where do you have RT on your value chart for the 22 positions? Say all are good players, all equal level of talent/age etc. Rough number is fine, theres too many factors, try not to over think it.

Yea thats the good part in that the first couple years there beneficial cap space, agreed. Then you start paying 20+ million or cut him and take 20+ million in dead space. Very simple- I do agree with paying a very good player at a lesser than average important position top 5 LT money.

One of my favorite topics, great thread, glad to see others enjoying it as welll.

I seen day 1 of OTAs, Urban ran the oklahoma drill......I thought it was a joke cause no contact for OTAs and that drill is 500% contact. I thought someone was pulling my leg..

Will you go on record and 115% agree with giving Taylor Moton 20+ million per aka overall top 5 OL money?

I did too, but days before the draft Sweat was getting the red flags treatment left and right. Member the one former coach said " You can not yell at him, he will shut down. Hes got thin-skin " Burns was the more cleaner player and just slighter less of RAS number. I still want to see Burns grow more, like rush stopping and not coming off the field etc. Needs to remain a panther and we need to start that process right now.