Basbear

Post in reply to hubby= Look at this my friend. Before, know this Lane Johnson was going to play LT at some point. My eyes maybe off....but I see LOTS more OGs in the top 20 than RTs.....plus Ram is new. So quick recap- Lane signed with intentions of playing LT and Ram just signed days ago....... Only two RTs by name in the top 20 and I just gave reasons for each. Again Im the crazy one for not wanting to over-pay a very good RT. Panthers over paided at RB and LB......RT is about the same value too, might as well go full tard. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/offensive-line/limit-100/ This backs up what Ive been stating, league doesnt value RT as LT. Only if you are in the NFC west or some other insane division where its loaded at LDE. That was the reason why the raiders signed Trent Brown to a insane contract to play RT. It didnt work out but I understood why playing against Millers, Bosa, hali etc.

Look at this my friend. Before, know this Lane Johnson was going to play LT at some point. My eyes maybe off....but I see LOTS more OGs in the top 20 than RTs.....plus Ram is new. So quick recap- Lane signed with intentions of playing LT and Ram just signed days ago....... Only two RTs by name in the top 20 and I just gave reasons for each. Again Im the crazy one for not wanting to over-pay a very good RT. Panthers over paided at RB and LB......RT is about the same value too, might as well go full tard. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/contracts/sort-value/offensive-line/limit-100/

What if Moton would only sign for 25 million per with 60% guaranteed? Say another team will give that to him if panthers dont as well. You still agree? Just lines are a thing and Moton/agent/crew wanting top 5 OL to play a lesser valued spot, thats too much for my taste. At what point you is yours? Roster turn-over is around 40% each year, I think the panthers drafted some Moton insurance with brady christensen.... I mean say christ is a ok RT, just average, is Moton worth 18x the cost? This gos back to the Norman deal. I just wanted to tag Norman and that be it, no long term deal for a older zone CB cause they have similar value to RT....... In steps Bradberry whom played decent for a rookie, so was Norman 15x the player Bradberry was? In my book nope, BIG nope. Panthers/gman goal-line fumbled this whole deal tho, still some comparisons can be made to Motons current deal. I was right there too......

Very high, RT maybe the least out of the 5. Yes I am hung up on not paying a very good player elite/top 5 money form another spot, yes......people acting like thats crazy, LOLolol! I answered most in my other reply. Buy a projector and hook up voice chat while youre dusting and washing dishes! I got work/chores to do as well before the weekend as well, lucky most are all done!

It does feel like I am undervaluing the RT, but you have to make hard choices since its impossible to pay all 25 spots top money. OL is important, very much. I have LT and C as wayyyy more valuable and depending on the system RG or LG maybe more as well. In recent years I have greatly changed my OG value, as has the NFL given the contracts as well. Past years I wouldnt have touched a OG before the mid-3rd at best, NFL changed and I did too. RT has sorta replaced OG in "value" terms for me. The OL needs to be rebuilt with or without Moton. IF Moton is getting 20+ mill per year for RT, that will make harder on filling other spots including the other 4 OLmen. 3 people on my side, no big deal. Popular opinions well....you know.(I wonder whats the most popular song is currently?) Lets just say at least its not chuck agreeing with me and MHS is. I know this is unpopular, very unpopular line of thinking with a very good player such as Moton. But that ends when your talking top 5 OL money for a non-elite Moton playing a lesser valued spot.

I thought the charge should be listed under "dead cap" since both are free agents and not on the roster. They could re-sign but the number would be different. Mis-understanding unless the numbers add up correctly on the left. Youre hung up on those numbers given to panther FAs, rough estimate after great years for all with the given super increase in cap via TV money. Even if theres 200 million in cap space, I totally disagree with paying a very good RT top 5 LT money, NO WAY! You and most others feel different, and you gave a very good effort...a real Moton performance!! But at last my mind hasnt changed, too set in my beliefs. They have served me very well and been proven over history. Right about Moore and his weak TDs, no defensive except blaming others(QBs, OCs). Just to add TDs and WRs are a.....how do I say....they dont go hand in hand. Juilo Jones(as others) have had super low TDs for a few years in elite careers. That field is smaller closer to goal-line less room to work for type of WR that Moore is. For sure tho, TDs number are weak, but hes the only WR to reach 1,200 scrimmage yards in each of the last 2 seasons. Thats very impressive feat, given all the other elite WRs. Shame its harder to compare to RT, since they dont have "stats". You maybe right about me over-valuing the WR, there are more in draft the last couple years. League has a good, not perfect method to show value, they pay WR nearly 2x the average of RTs it feels like. Wraping this up, where do you have RT on your value chart for the 22 positions? Say all are good players, all equal level of talent/age etc. Rough number is fine, theres too many factors, try not to over think it.

Yea thats the good part in that the first couple years there beneficial cap space, agreed. Then you start paying 20+ million or cut him and take 20+ million in dead space. Very simple- I do agree with paying a very good player at a lesser than average important position top 5 LT money.

One of my favorite topics, great thread, glad to see others enjoying it as welll.

I seen day 1 of OTAs, Urban ran the oklahoma drill......I thought it was a joke cause no contact for OTAs and that drill is 500% contact. I thought someone was pulling my leg..

Will you go on record and 115% agree with giving Taylor Moton 20+ million per aka overall top 5 OL money?

I did too, but days before the draft Sweat was getting the red flags treatment left and right. Member the one former coach said " You can not yell at him, he will shut down. Hes got thin-skin " Burns was the more cleaner player and just slighter less of RAS number. I still want to see Burns grow more, like rush stopping and not coming off the field etc. Needs to remain a panther and we need to start that process right now.

The paradis and reddick have 4 more years of signing bonus spread. Its 4 x 1,800,000 for paradis and 4 x 1,002,000. At seasons end all those void, thus hits ALL in 2022. Please click the names- Paradis and and Reddick and see for yourself. It takes away 13 in space for the 2022, no idea why sportac doesnt factor that in their future numbers. It is not just 1,800,000 and 1,002,000. You are smart enough to understand, sorry i can not explain it better. @Toomers can you please better word what Im trying tell stbugs? Again those salaries are rough and no chance everyone gets paid by the panthers. Plus they are factoring in new TV money and each having their best season. Honestly at first loved the reddick signing then I pull a 700 IQ move and watched his highlights form past season- About 80% of his stats came against no-names/backups/RB/TE and QB held the ball too long and ran into reddick. Again, its you can not pay everyone. Count me out of wanting to play Moton top 5 overall OL money. I want you to state you 113% agree with 20+ million per for moton. Not willing, just showing how many good FAs panthers have and number wise. About the only players Im willing to pay are 20+ for Burns and DJ Moore. If Darnold is the choosen one, pay him as well....if its 40 or close to, so be it. I just refuse paying top 5 overall OL money to Taylor Moton. Love him and hes been rock solid, but not paying 1st team all-pro money to a very good player. PERIOD. Tag him for another "bargain" year and figure it out again in 2022. Think about it st, the tag is a bargain this year and even with a 20% increase next year its still a bargain. Contracts for certain spots have gone insane, RT is one of them. Samuel got much more in the worst recent FA market. My deal was a bargain before the start of the season. I maybe mis-judging Moton as a player, hes gotten zero awards...yes pro-bowl are trash, still none, no 1st team all-pro etc. Im not going to agree to pay a very good player great top 5 OL money. OL needs rebuilding with or without Moton. He would help, but not while getting top 5 LT money. Just NO. Ive been right about CMC, Shaq, Teddy vs Winston, Samuel.....Im right about not wanting to spend 20+ million on a very good RT.

All true, before the season I thought panthers D would challenge some all-time records.....the worst ones not the good. So my expectations were 30s in near everything across the board. I was shocked at the play....NOT during the time where for like 3 games the D could not have a 3rd down stop(jesus that was bad). Thing is panthers knew this with showing the draft hand, record 1-7 defensive picks. Like you posted plenty of room to get better and instead of AARP the team is more fortnite... Heres a small run down of what the panthers lost- Luke 1B LB in the game HOF stud, Bradberry held most elite WRs in check, Reid a 100 tackle safety, Addinson gets 9 sacks per year for years, Irvin solid vet the Moton of DEs, Mccoy elite first step, Butler late 1st huge body figuring out NFL, and lastly Love, Horton, anc cockrell all decent depth options. Thats like 70% of the snaps and 65% of the stats GONE......Thats impossible to fix in one year. Plus Phil Snow never called one NFL play in like 65 years of his life. I thought this group is going to get poo stamped each week. I mean Djack was by far the best option at CBand wavier claim off a team with terrible CBs was the other starter. Backups are late round rookies, all teams should have threw non-stop it feels. They over-came allllllllllllllllllllll that plus the convid BS and were not the worst in NFL history. I choose not to judge this past year, but major props to Phil Snow and the young defense. I believe they should be mid-pack this year(firm number would be 18th) with age of the D, they can grow together and maybe reaally be scary for other NFL teams come 2022. My choice football "drug" is DL play and panthers in 25 years give me plenty........recently the supply has been very light...but I like the were they are headed.

It was almost like Ron Rivera told the players to play that way- " Hey guys Im done here, best thing for you to do is pad your stats so you look better during free agency" I forgot who asked, but some reporter did and rivera was like" Doing the best we can, the team cares, they are doing their best". Rivera never had that problem before, but the total team quit/checkout and it was one of the worst panthers teams in our history. Theres lots I can take, one I can NOT is RB getting first down every two carries.

I gave Herniay the gold star for signing Mccoy to a cheap deal and thought this team should go 12-4.......i just didnt buy Cam shoulder is done talk, I thought just a fluke/unlucky deal. It was awful to watch that team unfold into bunch of weak only caring about my stats DL. They only cared about 2020 free agency. So what a RB is getting 7 yards per attempt, "But look at my sacks doe, str8-fire son!!". SOFTNESS DL IN NFL HISTORY, compete joke!!

God dam, someone on the huddle is using their brain!! I like Moton, big time. Just he is NOT good enough to take cap space away form WR, QB, DE, or CB. Its a hard hard choice- hes hard working, no issues off-field, an complete pro with solid production. If he was had a couple years of 1st/2nd team all-pro years, give the man his money.....Dam the cap space...... hes not that guy tho. Incoming contract due to Sam Darnold(I hope), DJ, Moore, Djack, Reddick, ANderson, and Burns....even a couple of them the team will not be able to pay. Hard choices, Moton just priced himself out of the panthers budget and is about to be become a FA is at the best time in NFL history. It happens, I hope the team is using their brains like MHS is...

Just healthy new TV contracts for talented young players. They are not set in stone, rough numbers for future contracts given each is playing at their highest level while healthy(said that in the first part). Its mainly to show all can not be re-signed. If you pay Moton and Darnold, you may have to let Burns or Moore walk. Most here dont see the issue in paying Moton 20. I do whens its RT and hes above average. Id rather use cap space on DE(red/burns), WRs (ander/moore), and even CB(Djack). You feel other-wise. This reminds of everyone calling me insane when saying re-sign Samuel for 3yrs 21 million. Gosh huddle needs a better way to show its history when many are in the hive-mind mode.

I got Ram as 1-3 and Moton as 8-11, not a big difference. Checkout those names and contracts below the top paid, my guy....some are below 10 million and better or as good as Moton. Why are you willing to pay Moton 20+ when other teams are paying less than ten for close to same play? Form what I know you can not cut Shaq after his recent contract reduction, Moved like 8-10 down the road in signing bonus, just like CMC. Again Im paying Burns, Moore, and others long before I get to Moton........My mathz shows room for 10-ish RT, not 20 one. I swear Moton got some of you fooled good, hes above average player and great pro. Hes not irreplaceable or worth 20 million, hes only the 3rd best RT in the NFC south too. 20 Million is 1st team all-pro money..

You are forgetting Paradis and Reddick signed/added years on the contract to lower this years cap number. Its about 13 in dead cap coming for both, plus Boston(around 5ish). You can sign and you know Darnold and Moore want money right now or in 2022. Most teams sign players before the 5th year, just like the recent RT Ram example. Its coming, big big contracts are coming, hide behind that 5th year if you want, they want new deals before it. We do not know the roll over, I think its safe to place the value around 5. Weird math, carry the one...... about 35-43 million, hence my 35-ish comment. If the reports are true about Moton wanting top overall tackle, you people can sign off and support that.. Im going to pay Moore, Burns, and god Im hoping to Darnold a insane amount too. Moton doesnt fit in my formula.

I ask you the same thing as Madwolf Sam Darnold, DJ Moore, Taylor Moton, Brian Burns, Donte Jackson, Hasson Reddick, Robby Anderson. I forgot to mention, theres only 35-ish million in space for 2022.......SOooo think about that when picking and what the market value is. Who are you paying and where would rank Moton form that list? Try to be real in terms of contracts, 35 million is truly tiny. Goodluck paying Moton 18-22 million per and paying Sam 40+, DJ Moore 20+, Burns20+, Jackson 12+, Anderson 15-20, Reddick 15+. Maybe call Mickey Loomis for some tips, idk bro....

I view Ramczyk as better, LOL at most PFFFfff ranking. Id much prefer a rando huddler ranking. I would not be playing that either, just I feel he is a better player. Darrell Williams at 8 million per is more my liking. RT is not in my top half of valued spots. I got QB, WR, LT, C, CB, DE, DT and even TE above. Smart move is play out this year, do the same thing next. Tag is cheaper than 18+ per and make a hard choice in 2023.

That marty cut deeep....hard choices. I replied to your other one. This is a list, who you are willing to pay in order form this list-(for this, say everyone here is playing well) Sam Darnold, DJ Moore, Taylor Moton, Brian Burns, Donte Jackson, Hasson Reddick, Robby Anderson. I forgot to mention, theres only 35-ish million in space for 2022.......SOooo think about that when picking and what the market value is. In cap terms, theres a firm limit. Everyone in the list above needs big money now/very soon. Where is Moton?

Wear and tear is a real thing, some it doesnt matter and other normal people it does. Your joints, tendons, cartilage, etc all have limit before problems start. Thats when you should have been doing all the prevent stuff in your 20s, that many start doing in their 30s and go "O I should have been doing this at the start". You got like/love pain or be good friends with it to play NFL.