Krovvy

Yeah, and the core of that team went to the Super Bowl, an NFC Championship, and almost made another one if Brandon LaFell wasn't the soft, brick hands, receiver that he was. Right now this team needs to get a quarterback to even be in contention of win our sorry division. We're in a much bigger hole.

And when the cap goes down? Again, who really cares. The point is this team is cap strapped, and without players at key positions. Including the most important position on the team. We're the worst team in the league, with a cap mess, to the point of trading players, and we were recently without many draft choices.

I mean, it was the rebuild years. The 'cap hell' years I would think are 2011-2014. The NFL lockout happened in 2011. In 2010-2013 the cap barely moved, and even was lowered. Since then, it's been quite a bit easier to manage. From 2014 on the cap rose by over 10 million a year. If we didn't hit on Cam god knows what the team would have looked like. We would have had a lot of great players we would be trying to pay, but in quarterback purgatory with Ron Rivera leading the team. Actually, it would probably have been similar to the current Commanders.

Yeah, it's the 'cap hell' years, with the reference to 2013 as the winning season during that time.

No, you're right, you can find them, it's just difficult. Teams need a lot of receivers, and a usually one main running back with a backup to split a few carries. So many teams are looking for a star receiver cannot find one, like quarterback or left tackle. It's a premium position. Positional value is complex, and generally there's a reason running backs have been devalued.

Do you really want to argue that receivers are as easy as running backs to find?

Oh, we're fixated on just on 2013 now. I thought we were talking about the early 'cap hell' years. It doesn't really matter anyway. This is inarguably the worst stretch of years in the history Panthers football. We're not doing the up and down seesaw anymore; we're stuck with perpetually losing. This team still doesn't have a quarterback and doesn't have established leaders throughout the roster like those teams had. We have a few good, maybe great young players, and that's it. We don't have a Cam, Luke young combo that's going to carry the load until we draft them.

It's just positional value. If running back was as difficult as it is the find as receiver we should have kept Christian. Receivers are just hard to find and have a super high bust rate. It usually takes a couple of tries with first round picks to find a real go-to guy. Other than positional value the contracts are pretty stark considering the market. Christian's contract was inflated comparatively, while Moore's is really good when you look at the league. Then we have the injury issues, and longevity of running backs compared to receivers. Out of the two it's hard to keep the running back, while a receiver is hard to let go of.

It was more player development than anything. We had guys like Greg Hardy, and Josh Norman come out of nowhere, and had picks on the interior defensive line that finally developed. The biggest problem in 2011-12 was the defense. The biggest problem in 2014 was the offense, when Gettleman gutted the offensive line, and receivers in the same off-season.

We have a young secondary, and a more balanced offensive line, sure. In 2013 we had Cam, Luke, Davis, Olsen, Kalil, Gross, Smith, Johnson, Star, Hardy, Addison, Beason, Williams, Stewart, and a ton of good to great roster fillers like Tedd Ginn or Wharton. Guys, we're the worst team in the league, with one of the worst cap situations. I don't think there's any reason to try and spin it. We had to little cap room, and draft capital being the 32nd ranked team that we had to trade two players to get back into the black. We're just now correcting the deficit, it's not much of a gain.

Relocate deez nuts onto yo chin.

In 2013 we had elite players throughout the roster and were winning. The only reason this will be easier to get out of is because we don't have a quarterback to pay, and we can dump a lot of dead weight easily as we're not trying to win.

It wouldn't make sense though, but this front office has been prone to stupid mistakes. The reason being is Moore is young, proven, and under a good contract. Finding a great receiver is very difficult. It usually requires a first round selection, half of the time outright busting. If we traded him for two first round picks it wouldn't be likely they we could just use one to draft another star receiver. The past offseason showed how difficult it is to find a receiver and what teams are willing to do when they don't have one.

Is this real 'cap hell' or is that not a term we use anymore? Imagine if we didn't trade Christian.

It's your choice. Dig a hole if you want to.

Nope, all you have to do is stop talking and arguing with people. Or alternatively make a one sentence statement.

Are you really trying to pivot? Just make a statement, or don't and never talk about it again. And no, I didn't want to trade for Watson. Before the rumors I thought it would have been way too much trade capital, but at least you get a proven quarterback. After the scandal I was completely against it and have referred to Tepper and Fitterer being insane for pursuing him.

Just admit the trade was horrible at the time and especially now, then move on.

It was terrible value. We get it, you liked the trade, supported it, argued with people, and are now so dug in you don't feel like you can admit it was stupid position to hold. You can just stop posting about it instead of continually trying to argue an indefensible position.

That trade was horrible in fore and hindsight.

What rookie do you think we give the number 22 next year?

Our fanbase has a weird man-crush on Christian. I'm almost certain he wanted out and asked to be 49er. Did he ever really engage with fans, or the community? I never really got the feel he liked the Carolinas, which is probably why he didn't spend much time here. The guy was quiet, keeping to himself.

I don't trust Fitterer as far as I could throw him. I just hope someone is left in the building that can scout.

Yeah, it's crazy how it works right? With or without.

Just remember, running backs are largely replaceable. The year we drafted him is a stellar example. 41st - Dalvin Cook (Minnesota) 48th - Joe Mixon (Cincinatti) 67th - Alvin Kamara (New Orleans) 86th - Kareen Hunt (Kansas City) 105th - James Conner (Pittsburgh) 119th - Tarik Cohen (Chicago) 182nd - Aaron Jones (Green Bay) And Austin Ekeler (Chargers) went undrafted. Also, I would like to add, that this next year is projected to be one of the deepest running back classes since 2017. As long as the Panthers can still scout, we're going to be fine.