Waldo

Stop chasing models and just look at the parts. Did NE model themselves after someone? No, BB failed in CLE and became an evil genius. Did Seatle model themselves after someone? No, they hired Carrol and then the GM who where a huge match along with a great staff and did all kinds of crazy stuff to make a juggernaut for a couple of years. Did JR do such a good job chasing the Steelers the first 25 year that all the fanbase can do now it chase other teams with dreams of success? I am tired of following other teams. Is it so bad that I want to see the Panthers be the team leading the league in stead? Great coaching, was great QB play (Interesting to see where NE goes now) and savvy free agency where they get picks and players. NE and Seattle do all that really well. Can you really say their drafting is top of the league? Even with doing a curve for picking later? That is not why I don't want to emulate them, it because emulation sucks and is a pipe dream. I hope Rule and Fritters make something new from the successes and failures they have witnessed and not try to be it all over again. Is that so bad?

Those are your words. I said those teams were better than the Seahawks those years. I have said in the thread I want to steal what teams do well and not try and emulate the entire organizations. How many time has a BB top guy left and bombed elsewhere? Soo many because you can't emulate the Pats without cloning BB. The Bills and 49ers (without a franchise QB yet which is a huge wow) have done that. Thats why I like what their doing. KC is Reid basically running the best org in the business right now. His experience and improvement from his Philly days is really impressive. And nowhere in this did I once say I want to pretend we can be those organizations. Fritters positives seem to be his steady approach and his personality sounds like a big match with Rhule and Tepper. He stuck through 3 regime changes in Seattle, also impressive. But no, I absolutely see no reason to emulate Seattle, take their stability and leave their weaknesses, which they have.

I can because they are losers this year at 12-4, they just are better losers then us. Every team that won the SB every year since 2014 has been better than them. I have already agreed they are consistent but they are not finishing. At the end of every seadon there is 1 winner and 31 losers. Can you not see that? I am not naming them but here is a link, the winners were better than Seattle each of those years. I'm not debating their consitancy, i also never said they are not consistant, I was just notating their issues that have kept them from the SB. my criticism wasn't against their QB or coaching, it was that their drafting had kept them from being a serious contender. If they were better there, I am saying you would see more wins that matter most in that link. And on a final note, recent is relevant. KC is dominating, Seattle is sitting at home and has been since 2014. That matters more to me than how many wins Seattle has had in the last 10 years, even if that is impressive number it is way behind winning a SB. Nowhere did I say Seattle is a bad team or a not winning team.

Trust is gone for now. I am happy and excited to watch them prove it tho. It's easy with a GM, he is already on the clock and we don't have to sit around picking apart coach speak to guess which way anything is going.

I am not judging Fritters just discussing possibilities. Your statement makes it sound like judging the Seahawks is judging Fritters when in fact I am just talking about projecting Fritters possible tendencies. I know I am rough as cobb but that's it. And I would have kept McD over Ron that year anyways. If anything, McD made Ron look better as a HC. That is what I hope Fritters is, their McD.

Seattle has grown stale and is living off of their QBs production and good coaching. If they adjusted and updated they could be a power house but it appears they are happy with close and I am guessing with a completely hands off ownership, there is not much pressure at this time to change anything. I like what KC has built recently and look to be keeping up. I think looking at NE is the wrong thing to do but instead look to BB, he is the reason for success and he needs to find new blood to help get back on track. It will be interesting to see what he does, guy is a genius. The Bills are doing it really well. I think I would take the most from 49ers and KC. I do not want to emulate. We chased the idea of the Steelers for years and I would rather steal and adapt then emulate. I guess I look at emulating like trying to re-catch lightning in a bottle and that's why teams that do it fail so often.

I would think a real contender has to actually win a playoff game by definition. Not trying to be snarky at all about this. The entire we made it to the playoffs, where is my participation trophy angle just doesn't sit well with me. My entire point was there is some there to critique and discuss. Just winning isn't enough, even though it looks like beginning to climb Mt Everest from where we are now.

They fail better than us, yay. There is a lot to emulate there but you are completely hung up in winning the regular season and not postseason. That's like winning the offseason, no trophy.

If just making it into the playoffs if what you define as a contender then WTF is a contender? Hell no. They were participants this year, not contenders, just like the Seahawks once the regular season ended. The contenders will be playing this weekend. I get it, I would just like to have a higher bar then a bad good team. Jesus how beaten down is this fanbase?

Any team that won a SB in the last 5 years is technically better. I get it, wins do matter. The goal is still a SB and they have not been since 2014. That's a failure, better than us since 2016 but still not all world. Teams have tried to copy or steal from NE, the best hands down, and they keep failing. Vrabel is doing well but still not lights out in Tenn but the rest are flame outs. Making the playoffs isn't the point, it's an achievement not the goal. Winning the playoffs is. We have different goals we would like to see apparently. I like they guy so far but I do have concerns...he is going to have to prove it and I am happy to see him try. Why that is such an issue to others I just don't understand.

Yes, because they have a very good QB. A 12-4 team was dumped in the wild card round. If I was a fan I would be pissed at that. Still better than us? Sure. I want the Panthers to be a bully and not a wet noodle that sneaks into the playoffs to be a punching bag. Aim for the best and not good enough would be my retort to you. Edit: Also we were in a SB more recently then them with that nice record. Just saying.

This makes their shinny new GM look like other Pats 'experts' that fail anywhere else. I am sooo glad we are not stuck with that goober. Watson is still going to have to sit a year before that double dumpster fire comes to grips with the situation.

I haven't read much in the last few days but he was so happy to see Hurney fired and having to retire a bunch of Gifs he used to make fun of him. Checked. He likes Tepper and is happy it's anyone but Hurney.

Yes there is an elite tier and then the tiers after. I agree about the first part but I'm just not excited to lump the rest into similar category. Hell, some of our franchise's best players were not in the elite tier he described. My biggest concern is that they have done much better later in drafts and not done too well at all in the early part of the draft in the area we are discussing. Huge hit on Metcalf and a bunch of no thank yous. I'm not giving anything lol but I like some of what I have heard and some raises concerns and questions. I am not against him for sure. I am just talking and wrapping my head around the new bits we are learning about. Just like I wouldn't expect a roster to be perfect, I don't expect Friters to be perfect. Ok, what are his strengths and weaknesses? How does that project and effect us next year? That's how I am looking at it.

We were very similar before Cam got hurt and Hurney came back. KC has become dominate, emulate that quality over a team that is living off of what they did in 2012. It's a little harsh but fair considering they have stagnated visibly to a degree. I just didn't like his take on the top tier and everything else is close. Every draft has different depths and tiers. Build a value chart and stick to it while targeting the strengths of that draft. The Seahawks drafting hasn't been the same since Drunko left, quality wise. They are not a talentless roster but they are also not a great roster either, only if you pretend it's 2012 - 2014. I like the organizational setup for sure, I'm just not sure about some of these philosophies that have led to the Seahawks stagnation. If I had to guess, if the Seahawks realized they had a talent evaluation problem and solved it, they would be a huge problem for other teams going forward. I hope they never do lol.

That would be the difference in coaching and we also got Hurney back which put us in a lower tier. When Cam was healthy and DG was here, we were similar teams.

They have done a mediocre job in recent years. We have been a dumpster fire of roster building. Without Wilson, they look like the current Panthers. Good Wrs, no oline and a D with positives. The QB is the difference. Just not impressed with emulating. People emulating the pats have ended up in failures all over the league for years.

They went 12-4 and couldn't make it out of the wild card round. They are soft as hell and have drafted like crap. Without Wilson, they would be in hot water and living on name recognition at this point. I get taking some of that but in no way is emulating a franchise sliding into mediocrity a great thing. Happy with parts but not a copy and paste.

Not a good sign if he think Jackson is a building piece. Hopefully that's just an example given, I was hoping to do better at CB in the future.

Jags, Lions, Huston and WTF will be a race to see who gets fired first. I would bet all 4 have flipped in 3 years.

I have been worried about Hurney's taint being carried over by working with Rhule, hopefully we are now in the clear. It's pretty positive that Tepper did learn, hopefully we are where we have begged to be as fans, under the competent guidance of great football people.

I kind of get it. We are fans, we knew what was what and have for the better part of 13 years at that point. He didn’t. Ownership cares more about the business then the product, that's just normal. It was when we fired Ron and kept Hirney that was frustrating. He should have nutted up and hired a good consultant to assist him but like you said, water under the bridge. If that failure leads to Tepper making better decisions in the future then we are better off now.

It was a bad sign when he kept Hurney, it looks like he has learned from that massive mistake. That is a very good thing to see. Hire good football people and get the hell out of the way. That's what ownership needs to do if they are serious about being continously competitive.