d-dave

Well, hindsight is 20/20.  If you don't learn from the past, you will continue to make mistakes today.

So much of the draft is projection.  How well will this play fit our system?  How much room does he have to grow?  There are a handful of ready made products, then the rest are the results of coaching and opportunity.

XL is a great athlete.  He moves different.  But he's a body catcher.  That's going to limit him until he learns to use his hands, or plays a different WR position.  They also loved the guy.  I'm guessing he would fit in with the culture Canales is creating.

Brooks was the run away #1 RB except that he was hurt.  We saw in his limited time that the dude moves differently.  Hrm...Interesting that both XL and Brooks do that...  Brooks was going to get drafted high.  That's just the way it is with talent.

I think there was a bit of a stylistic choice: get guys who can create because of their physical abilities.  Was this the right direction?  I don't know.  To be honest, none of us will know for a bit yet.  Brooks getting hurt again sucks.  Will he be the same guy?  I don't know.

I fully agree with taking the best players, maybe not the most talent physical specimens.  At the same time, they have the keys.  It's up to Morgan, Canales and Brandt to get it done.  It's their jobs on the line.  Their reputations.

Oh boy, we saw what happened when he was out...

I'd rather have Moton for 13 games than 17 with...whoever?  

Moton has been an above average RT for most of his career.  I'd try to keep him as long as he's productive via an extension instead of hoping we can resign Brady Christensen to play RT or drafting someone else right now.

XL is good people.  He just exudes his real authentic self.  

Now he comes across as a hard worker.  He's not a finished product at age 23/24, but he's still a young man.  My hope is that XL can reflect and get better this off season.  If I'm Bryce, I'd definitely connect with him and work on developing that chemistry.

On his own, XL needs to be coached up on hands catching.  I know it's a hard habit to break, but he's got to do a better job of using his hands instead of allowing the ball to travel into his body to make these middle catches.

My hope is that XL grows a lot for year two!  If not, he'll find himself pushed down the depth chart by less talented guys.  I'm rooting for him!!!

I really appreciate these.  Like him or not, JT has played high level football at a place where I couldn't imagine.  I mean, I was 6th string DT in high school before I said "I'm going where the girls are!" =P

He's very bullish on Bryce, and I think JT wants to see him succeed.  I know many of us are all over these videos so he knows he's going to get the views on any BY video.  It's a feedback cycle almost, lol.  JT thinks BY is a legit QB.  Not perfect, he does point out error, and seems to go out of his way to insult Theilan's speed constantly.  It's almost funny.

Honestly, it just confirms what we've seen: BY found himself after being benched.  He's improved each week, made great plays, had a few stinkers along the way.  

Let's build the rest of the team around Bryce.

Man, what a crazy game!  The Panthers offense had to be nearly perfect.  Atlanta didn't punt.  Way to play!

The draft with be the draft.  Whatever.  

I'm so happy to end the season with a win.  Yeah, we still have a lot of weak areas, but this is one heck of a way to send the Falcons home.  I'll take it!

The reality is we have spent most of the Tepper era fugging around.  We tried to instantly solve the QB problem - failed.  Tried a Program Builder Coach - Failure.  Tried a Carolina Connection Retread - Failure.

FINALLY - Tepper is taking a backseat and he's going to allow the guys he's paying big bucks to actually run the team.  They will have two more years to see if they have what it takes, then you move on.  

As far as QBs - look, they were all top three picks.  Baker #1, Darnold #3 and Bryce #1.  These are all very talented QBs.  It sure helped Baker going to a team that spend money and picks on Tom Brady's SB team.  Sam went to a great QB/system coach with an all world WR that added quality pieces to support a rookie QB.  Bryce came into a team bereft of talent.  We traded the farm for Bryce.  We have been "rebuilding" poorly for 6 years.

So what I'll say is that the Panthers have two years or so.  Either we start to make some noise in 2025 and win in 2026; or we start over again. Giving these guys three years is a good leash.

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Granted its still early in the morning, but would you mind enlightening me how posting bo nix stats is a ray of sunshine for us?  Thats a bit of a headscratcher to me

Same reason you posted Young's record.  I know you've been anti Young for a multitude of reasons.  We can agree we just won't see eye to eye and that's all good to me.

You have seen how anytime we have the slightest bit of forward momentum there are the "what-abouts" that come out of the woodwork.  Nix looked good throwing short and having explosive play makers.  How many "tough" throws did he have to make?  Some people on this board will use moments like last night to prove how wrong we were, if we had only drafted Nix instead!  (or any other QB!).

My point with Bryce and the past two years is that context matters more so than the end result.  I'm a teacher.  If a 10th grade kid comes in the fall with a 4th grade reading level, and ends the year reading at an 8th grade level - that's a HUGE F'in win!  In one year, teachers and the kid (and family) worked really hard to improve.  He still fails the reading exam because it's written for a 10th grade reading level.  The result is still a big L on the ole NC Report Card, but that kid grew like crazy.

To circle back (look, my caffeine hasn't hit yet, and the kids who can't be trusted at home are sugar high and ready to get home...haha) the OP's point is that stats are relative.  Nix can throw short balls all night to playmakers and have a nice stat line in a loss.  Bryce doesn't have the playmakers nor the game planning of Sean Peyton to have that kind of stuff stat sheet games. 

God, I'm tired =P  This is probably a poor answer, but that's all I have for this Friday before Winter Break here.

Just now, frankw said:

Why are we talking about Bo Nix?

For all the stat nerds who are mad at Bryce Young for not single-handedly lifting the Panthers and their fantasy team to the top of something...

And @rayzor hit the nail on the head.  We are probably one of the most miserable fan bases in the NFL.  Admittedly, we don't have a lot to be happy about.  When there's a remote ray of sunshine, we have to immediately point out how much worse we are and better everyone else is.  It's almost a knee jerk, instinctual reaction at this point!

You know Gunn wants to get the internet started talking about the movie with that trailer.

I'm looking forward to it.  I've really loved his superhero stuff so hopefully this continues.

It was a fun video, until they got into the McDonald's stuff.  Sounded disgusting.  I also hate McDonalds and consider it the lowest form of fast food.  Bleh!  (my opinion)

As far as Bryce - he's shown a lot of promise to the coaches, the media and community.  If you're a Bryce doubter or hater, I got bad new: he's going to be QB in 2025.  I'm still personally in the "let's see how he grows."  I'm also not sure if any of the top QBs are better than him.  Then again, I have much NFL personnel experience as y'all do (zero).

I am all for the idea of building the team back up.  We need talent.  Look, if Bryce is inconsistent in 2025 and shows a real lack of growth and progress, then we'll still be in shape to draft a quality QB in the top half of the first round for 2026.

Next season is the make or break for Young.  I can imagine if he falls apart again, Dave will quickly yank him and start looking at the next QB class.

I adored the first film, 28 Day Later.  It was such a cool take on the zombie genre.  The worst monsters are always the people.  I think about that movie a lot

Nice read, but nothing groundbreaking.

Sounds like the injuries keeping him from playing at his elite level were what caused him to retire.  I understand it's better to leave at your peak than get cut and tossed out with the refuse.

47 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Young is 4-23 as a starter.  He looks like a child playing a mans game.  He doesnt have the physical traits to be a nfl qb.  At some point its time to look in the mirror and admit this experiment has failed.

 

We just spent the past 3ish weeks of folks screaming "STAT WATCHER" when its patently clear Young cannot win in the nfl.  His wobbly duck throws, his lack of zip into windows, his sky high sideline passes, his crappy mechanics......all of that poo is too much to overcome.  Pull the plug and move on. 

Opinions are like feet, we all have a couple, and everyone thinks mine stink. 

I understand you don't like Bryce Young.  I'm Bryce-hopeful.  I also realize he's an outlier physically, but it wouldn't matter if Bryce was prophetically sized or Anthony Richardson sized.  I mean, in a similar number of games, AR has three times the number of fumbles that Bryce has. 

You looked at the three games prior to Sunday, and you say "stat watcher."  I didn't see that.  I saw Bryce making plays, looking more confident, and leading his team.  No, he wasn't perfect, he made mistakes, and bad throws.  When the game was on the line, he stepped up and made some great plays.  In two games, he lead us to leads before being let down by the defense.  Against the Eagles, he threw a great ball to XL that was dropped.  I'm not going to change your mind that Bryce is not good enough to play in the NFL.  But I will say that he's showed some real potential as an anticipatory passer.

As far as pulling the plug, I was in favor of that early in the season.  He looked just horrific weeks 1-2.  Andy was playing well.  But since he's come back, Bryce has looked so much better.  We gave up the farm for that pick.  Right or wrong, we need to ride it out.  The team sucks.  Put another young QB on a crappy team, see what happens.  Regardless of what we do with the Qb position in the future, we need more talent across the board.

Every game that Bryce falters is another game that people will use to write the bust tag under his name. 

Did Bryce have bad game?  Oh yeah, what a turd of a game.  He cannot put the ball on the ground that many times.  Did Bryce have a few good throws?  Yes he did, but the game got out of hand pretty quickly because of the turnovers, poor coverage of CeeDee Lamb, and poor run defense. 

This game was a showcase of our lack of talent.  Even our vaunted OL got outmatched.  Mike Zimmer "got" Bryce.  We showed exactly why we are a 3-11 team heading for a top five pick.  We just have such a narrow margin of error being as bad as we are.

Do does that mean we should grab another QB?  Or pick the best player.  If Travis Hunter is there at 3, do you take a chance on a project QB like Cam Ward (decision making) or Sanders (ego/maturity)?  Both have more physical upside than Bryce, but both need time on the bench to learn how to play in the NFL.  To me, there's not a clear cut improvement from Bryce Young in the draft, and in FA, it's just going to be another band aid.  We don't have enough talent in other areas to give a veteran QB a chance to really shine.

So Canales is going to have to learn from this turd of a game, and Morgan is going to have to work on addressing these deficiencies.

8 hours ago, Move the Panthers to Raleigh said:

“The Canadian Express”

Plays on Canadian and Edmonton have been the most entertaining for me.  I'll leave that to the clever folks

To me, as an idiot with a keyboard (the most dangerous kind!), I think we're seeing improvements.

Looking at the entire operation this season (not last season), there have been improvements week to week.  There have also been times when the team has been maddeningly inconsistent.   So this is a young team coached by a young coach.  Ok.

We aren't some kind of mega great team.  We are a struggling team.  Is it all Bryce's fault?  No.  Bryce faultless?  No.  The truth is in the middle: he makes some good plays, he makes some questionable decisions.  We don't have a real explosive threat.  Teams are playing us close to the line of scrimmage because no one scares them.  Bryce also doesn't have a cannon of an arm either.

What I've seen is Bryce is playing like a different player from the first two games of the season.  He's much more confident and joyful.  Everyone has their thing.  Cam needed to get hit a few times to get lathered up. Others have to feel disrespected.  Whatever - these pros play the game differently.  He's playing better, which is a big deal.

Bryce has also driven the team to leading scores in the last few minutes of games.  XL's drop, if he hadn't, would have put us at a tie.  If Eddy hit the extra point, we could have won.   Against Tampa and KC, he lead scoring drives only to get that pulled out from under him by bad tackling on QB scrambles.  I think he's got that clutch gene. 

Now Bryce did also have a terrible INT, missed some plays, and didn't have as strong a game as he's had over the past few weeks since he's been back starting.  But, no other QB in the league has ups and downs.  They are all amazing 100% of the time.

I get it.  Some of y'all don't like Bryce.  That's fine.  But the team owes it to themselves to keep riding Bryce.  The players believe in Bryce.  Let's see how that investment turns out.  If he falls apart next season, then you move on.  You gave him three seasons.  Then maybe you get in the Arch Manning sweepstakes (or whoever is the hot QB candidate).

But I think (again, I'm an idiot with a keyboard) Bryce is playing better.  Let's keep riding this bus through 2025.

I'm much more inclined to keep Bryce than trade him for another rookie QB.  I think Canales has actually done a really good job of getting Bryce back to who he was at Alabama.  Bryce does continue to have physical limitations, but he's definitely playing better.

Is Bryce perfect?  Nope.  Does he have a lot of things to "clean up" as the Panthers are fond of saying?  Yes he does.  If he gets better in this areas, will he become a better pro QB?  I think so.  Will that make him a top 10 QB?  Maybe?

The thing about QBs is you need to be patient.  They all need support.  Once they find a guy, they always talk about surrounding him with weapons.  Bryce is no different.  Everyone needs a supporting cast.  Look at the Buffalo game yesterday.  Allen made some crazy good plays!  His runs, throwing some crazy good balls!  He really showed his bag of tricks.  But Allen didn't catch those balls, he didn't play defense, and he didn't play special teams. 

Wins and losses are far too often associated with QBs when they are as much a team issue.  You can have a QB have a great games, but if the other parts of the team don't come through, it's still a loss.

I think the Panthers have to give Bryce next year before they really start considering if he's the guy for the long term or not. 

Man, I hope Brooks is OK.  I don't know.  A lot of y'all are poo pooing him for getting hurt again.  It's football.  Guys get hurt all the time.  The timing sucks for him and us, but that's how it works.

Brooks looked really good last week.  I hope it was more out of an abundance of caution, but I don't expect to see him play the rest of the season.

As far as XL, he's in his own head.  He's a rookie receiver.  It happens.  There are growing pains for most rookie receivers in some way, shape, or form.  It's not worth getting upset and labeling him a bust.  Now if he's doing this stuff in 2 years, then that's completely fair.

It doesn't change that fact that the Panthers still have plenty of work to do on both sides of the ball.

Jameis is a fun watch.  He'll make some insanely good plays, and then throw a couple pick sixes to even things out.  You never know which part of the ride you're on any given play.

But do I want to trade Bryce for Winston?  Nope.  I'm on board the "let Bryce play" train.  I want to see what the rest of the season looks like.

It's perspective.  When you step away from a complex problem for a bit, then you can come back and attack it.  It's how I deal with things that are hard at work.  I'll do something else, watch someone else do it, get mad at them for being dumb, and then do it the way I want to get the results I want.  

At a certain point, your skills and training take over.  The click that people have.  In my photography journey, I started off bad.  Really bad.  I had no idea what I was doing.  Then as i learned more about light, things got better.  But then it clicked at the last event I shot, and I got some incredible photos because my brain and body learned to work together along with my intuition.

I've been really thrilled with Bryce the past few weeks.  I think he's turning that corner.  It doesn't mean he's going to destroy the Eagles, but even if the Eagle end up turning us into a speedbump, there will still be solid growth from that game.

If nothing else, he's shown he' the guy for the now and near future.  We should definitely know if he's worth it after next year.

He read the forum guys!

(ha!  I get to be the first with that joke!)

According to the talking heads of the sports world, this is a pretty meh QB class.  Sanders and Ward are the only two with first round buzz, but the rest are blah.  Take that for what you will.

Let's see how Bryce does in year three.  That's just where we are.  Patience is the key here.  Players need time to develop.  They can't develop if they don't play.  Bryce has made some really good throws, but he doesn't look like CJ Stroud.  That's going to be his point of comparison the rest of their careers.  The ball doesn't explode off Bryce's hand, it's not a cannon ball shot out of a cannon.  He's not going to break a 70 yard run.  

Bryce is going to have to continue to make good throws and make plays.  Part of that is going to depend on the play calls.  Part of it is based on the skill players.  A couple drops picked up yesterday and it's a win and Bryce throws 1-2 more TDs.  A completely different story.

It's been a crazy year indeed.  I just want to see Bryce continue to develop.  To see XL become more consistent.  To see JT fully recover (not play this season if he's not healthy).  I want to see Coker continue to make plays.  I'd love to see Brooks get more touches and Chubba continue to hammer defenses.

Then this approaching offseason, let's go back to the D and work on fixing it.

That's pretty nuts.  Bryce really made some throws, like crazy throws, even if they were dropped our resulted in a DPI.  Like on the one that led to the final TD and the 1st 2pt attempt.  I was like "WTF is he thinking...oh well that worked out!"

I super happy to be Bryce developing right now.  Now, can he become a winner?  That is the greatest question for us.  The more I read about this QB class, the more meh I am about it.  I'd MUCH rather draft defensive help than hope and pray someone outperforms Bryce.  a

Both Bryce and Canales need to continue to grow and develop.  I think year two for them will be much more telling (wow, way to go out on a limb d-dAVE...).  

At the end of the day, we were feisty and competitive against a team everyone thought was going to pound us into the dirt below our turf field.  I'll take that this year.

12 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't really like the phrase, "moral victory".

I get what's meant by it, but does that mean that if you do the opposite (play poorly but win) it's an immoral victory?

What about an almost win?  Beautiful loss sound better. 

The Panthers played with some juice, but we still lack a lot of talent on the defensive side of the ball.  The DJ Wonum effect is real, but there's little in the middle to stop teams from these 10+ yard rushes, and we could use more help in the secondary.

I missed most of the game dealing with a failing appliance.  Yay?

But I kept up via socials and watched the last Panthers drive.  To be that excited in the last few minutes of the game was fun.  I love it!  I figured if they scored quickly, this time due to penalty, I figured KC would drive down the field.

I'm glad it ended well!  I think Dave needs to just say, Bryce is our guy.  Stop acting foolish about it.