mav1234

So yes we could definitely do better in our receiving group. And yes, the Panthers are among the last in the league in YAC, but both Coker and Sanders have a lot of YAC. Sanders and Coker are both pretty high up on YAC for their respective positions. So why are we so low? 1) They aren't Bryce's favorite targets - that is XL and Thielen. To say their YAC is low is an understatement, lol. 2) They've both been a bit injured. 3) Our offense is not really designed around the 'easy' YAC Plays, in part because, IMO, Bryce just can't throw some of those balls, and because we can't seem to get the screen game right. As to every other team... I mean in terms of league rankings, the Eagles, 49ers, and Vikings are all in the same area of YAC as the Panthers. And compared to the 49ers and Vikings, we also have ~500+ less air yards than they do. I don't think all of our problems are BY based, but I think if you get him some YAC master, that player will be far less productive with YAC here than they were wherever they came from.

Stroud's OL was pretty bad last year, too, though, and yet he had an incredible rookie year. It's definitely worse this year. Our OL was incredibly bad last year, but BY was, too. And I think this board sometimes downplays how much bad QB play can contribute to sacks (though yes, OL play matters MUCH more). For instance, BY averaged 3 sacks per game in his first 2 this year. In the next 5 games (or whatever it was), Dalton averaged only 1.6. Since returning - were we all agree BY is playing much better, though maybe we disagree how much - he is at 2/game. So did we "ruin" Bryce? Or was he just... bad? I Dunno.

yeah, he's trying to make too much happen. He has the same pocket time this year as last year (and same as BY in 2023). One of BY's biggest improvements was how fast he was getting the ball out.

His OL last year was only barely worse than ours based on a lot of advanced metrics. They were ranked like 4-5 slots higher than ours. Stroud was pressured 2% less often on pass plays than Bryce Young in 2023. They had the same pocket time last year (2.5s) Stroud's receivers have missed tons of games this year. Diggs and Collins have played in a combined 17 games out this season. Now Collins and Stroud have great chemistry together, but Collins was considered average prior to his arrival. It was a bad trade, but if we had drafted Stroud, it wouldn't be anywhere near the top of that list. Stroud this year - and that is with an atrocious OL and a lot of injuries to his weapons - has 17 TDs, the same number of INTs as Bryce on more pass attempts, and 3250 yards. All that with more drops (and a higher drop %) by his receivers.

... We have one of the best OLs in football this year. Last year was bad, sure, but the Texans had nearly as bad an OL and are terrible this year, and that was with competent QB play behind them lol. If the Texans haven't ruined Stroud, how would we? Stroud took an abysmally bad Texans team and they're a playoff team now

Yeah it is being kind, lol, at least if we consider his full career to date. But I think "backup level" is a realistic expectation for him now. I'd love for nothing more than for Bryce Young to light it up the next 3 weeks and give us all something to hope for come 2025, even if that means hurting our draft position a little. Even still, we can't afford to spend another offseason exclusively propping him up. Invest in defense. Bring in QB competition.

Sanders has more than half his yards as YAC. Most teams RBs have great YAC, and Chuba is no exception. So we have 3 players with excellent YAC overall. Bryce throwing within 5 yards of the los or throwing rainbows 15 yards makes YAC impossible, and Thielen is his main target and half this board could run him down. So, is it really our receivers? Please note that YAC is also related to the type of offense. Burrow is ripping it and he's got a mid to low YAC.

Do we get to have our draft picks we spent on Bryce back? If not, I don't want either of them in particular lol

He's been a great pick up... One of the main reasons I'm excited to watch on Sundays now tbh.

I think you're right on 4 or above, tho we'll see. We could throw that all out the window by winning a couple hahaha. If we're at 3 and we get good offers for a QB I am open to trading down, especially if we can snag a first next year from a bad team. Then we can be the envy of the league with all our draft picks, just like the Bears were. Turned out so well for them But seriously I think we'll be in good draft position. No matter what, we need some kind of competition for Bryce next year, or an outright replacement if he collapsed back to 2023 form the rest of the way (I don't think he'll do this tho, just go back to being low end starter / backup material lol)

Tbf, Young started 9 games this year, not 11, and only has 54 yards total in the other 2 (Allen had like 250 in his non start in 2019). So, ya know, it's only a 1580 yard difference in four games .

The whole "Panthers don't have YAC guys" is a bit exhausting in a week where Coker has like 50 on one play. Sanders has half his yards from YAC this year. Bryce and/or our scheme isn't putting those guys in position to get YAC. Very often, the softballs young throws allows defenders to close. Some of that will get better with better timing tho, some of it won't because the coverages teams play as they aren't afraid of him deep. Some of it is Adam Thielen is our leading target and he can't get YAC at all anymore.

Holy crap. What a read...

if the NFL had just had a minor league...

I think there's a difference between questioning ownership and player evaluation from choices and GM's. I think both are fair game, but one set of those people make a living off of football decisions when none of us do, and often have a lot more insight than we do. Owners, tho, are arrogant and think they know more than they do - like most fans (myself included lol)

Think of all the draft picks we could have if we just traded everyone on the team

Good OGs are extremely valuable, and made sense given our OTs and QB. I'd rather have drafted a center but... We're in a good position for the next couple years on the OL now for the first time since, what, the early mid 2000s?

There's some big assumptions in here - first, I think Canales HAS helped Bryce a poo ton. To pretend he hasn't is asinine. Has he fixed him? I mean, the dude looks like he could perhaps be a backup or low-end starter now, whereas he looked like he didn't belong in the NFL a year ago. You're talking about a coach that brought one of the worst NFL QBs of all time to a point where he may actually be a low-end starter. That IS impressive. Second, the bolded. Come on - given the offense, the dude is far from "trending towards bust." He definitely needs work but he's shown an impressive ability to get open. He's contributing to an anemic offense. The dude is our leading receiver (though he'll be #2 in yardage by end of season by a little, as Thielen does better per game). As to his coaching, he had this team competing and believing against 3 of the better teams in the NFL, despite the lack of talent, and despite our QB situation. Yes, things fell apart vs DAL, and he was outcoached. But that will happen with young coaches IMO. I don't think it indicates he cant' be better. The idea of "pulling off the bandage" is ridiculous. Who would want to coach here if we fired this guy after one season?

I mean it's not even like this was his worst game of the season... I'm not done with him by any means but this feels more the norm for him than the exception:/

I'd give it a C mainly because of Brooks. If we just didn't have a 2nd I'd argue B to B+ tbh. Brooks was a bad gamble, tho one that could still pay off long term. Yes XL only has 400 yards but... Look who is throwing him the ball. And I think he isn't a "true #1" but he's been able to consistently get open. Hands definitely need to be cleaned up. But he should end the year with 500-600 yards. Like you said - Sanders looks great. Get him a better QB / more time with a QB and I think he's gonna impress. We added a couple rotational players on D that have both made plays and show promise for the future from later rounds. So I'd say, Brooks really hurts this drafts grade. It'll be interesting to see how it progresses over the next 3 years. I've overall really liked Morgan's FA acquisitions, so...

Tepper has fuged us so much. I wonder if we'll ever know definitively what power he exerted. It seems he's finally letting Canales and Morgan alone, so I'm really hopeful. The one heartening thing to me is we finally did the smart thing this last offseason and invested a ton in our OL. The problem is that left the D neglected... But I think this offseason can do a lot. I'm not as down on our offseason as others - our draft looks much worse because our 2nd round pick was a dud, but free agency wasn't bad, and we finally have young offensive weapons to have some excitement about. The 2 later round drafted D players both had some nicer games late this season - which is about what you can ask for.

Yeah, 6 or 7 makes sense assuming incremental Bryce improvement and not a backslide into last year. But we also could surprise in a weak division if some of our draft picks take big steps forward.

XL is a good rookie - but a rookie. He needs wrist surgery, but he's had a promising campaign Brooks yeah. That was a mistake. Wallace was starting to look decent. But injuries happen. Sanders looks very good so far. Smith-Wade has had a couple nice plays and seems like good depth. I don't think this is a failure of a draft class at all, still too early to tell, but some promising players.

I think it'll depend how well next year goes. If he's projected #1 overall because of pedigree and how well he does, why not?

How so? A dude that can catch anything no matter how well thrown seems like a good idea for any QB... And it's not like Bryce needs some huge speedster with his arm strength limitations