mav1234

I'm glad PJ didn't completely implode like Darnold did, but at some point we have to expect actually good QB play from a starter, heh. PJ completed 1 pass beyond 10 yards (that traveled in the air more than 10 yards), added to his unimpressive interception total, and had lots of errant throws. Fine if he's our back up, but we really need Cam up to speed asap to keep this momentum rolling IMO.

This is your opinion, but I don't think that is true personally. The threat of Cam running also created opportunities for backs because it was hard to account for everyone IMO, especially given Cam's threat to pass. It is hard to evaluate this given how much Stew and Cam's careers (as well as DWill's, and Tolbert's) overlapped so much, but all we have to go off of is the fact that Cam did score those TDs... I suppose we could look at when Stew and Cam didn't play together, but it was a similar roster as when they did play together (aka I don't think it helps to compare 2010 Stew to some year where it was Stew + Cam later on). In 2014, Stew played a couple games without Cam and didn't get a rushing TD, but had 4 on the season with Cam (including playoffs). Cam had 6 on the season. Doesn't really seem like Cam was dropping his TD numbers. edit: to me, this is a similar argument to "well we should discount some of those passing TDs because they could have been rushing TDs", lol. Like... the TDs happened... the QB is how they did... Who cares if some other player could have scored instead...

He has been injured (or had COVID) for what amounts to 3 straight years, lol. The fact he is still at all on these lists is a testament to how productive he was up to 2018. Derek Carr and Ryan Tannehill are above average passers that are not elite QBs because that is all they can bring to the offense, basically. If they had Cam's mobility, they would be elite. Tannehill has been in the league 1 less year but has 50 less TDs than Cam. Carr has about 2 seasons less starts than Cam and has 70 less TDs. Purely from a passing perspective yes they aren't that different. But those are 2 pretty good starting QBs in the NFL from a purely passing perspective. That's the thing tho, that is a major limitation for both.

I think Brandt has always been big on Cam, although I may be mistaken. Honestly I could see us being fringe top 10 right now. We just completely dominated the Cardinals. We previously dominated the Saints. We kept pace with the Cowboys without CMC and with a severely depleted D. Darnold went way off the fuging rails in 5+ games and it cost us. But before that, we looked like legit contenders.

TD/INT ratio is virtually worthless, but you also can't ignore his rushing TDs because it is something unique he brings... He had one elite season, and multiple great seasons as a QB. You simply can't look at Cam as a QB and ignore his rushing abilities... the same way you can't look at Kyler or Lamar and ignore them. His TD% thrown is middle of the pack but his TDs scored is top 12 of all active players and he's 11th overall in passing TDs. He's above average as a passer and elite threat on the ground (seemingly still elite on the ground).

this isn't true. He is not an "elite passer" alone, but he was good/above average as a passer, and he was an excellent to elite QB (may still be - hope so - he's certainly much better than what we had). Remember Cam set records for his passing in his rookie year too. He has impressive passing numbers but the fact he's always been a dominant rusher meant that his passing alone was never his only strength. 2015 was probably the only near-complete team we put around him, gave him a sold OL, and he decimated the league. but we can't act like he is below average at passing, because he isn't. Among active players, Cam is 10th overall in passing yards among active players, 12th in TDs, 8th in Profootball Reference's approximate value, 11th in PASSING tds... He spent most of his career here with... not very good WRs, and an OL that had him running quite a bit. He also never had a particularly good OC when he was healthy after Chud left. finally... as far as most people care, the hallmark of a good QB is 1) moving the ball, 2) scoring the ball, and 3) protecting the ball. Cam was very good in all these areas in his career here.

it did look like he was just jogging until he saw the ball was gonna be intercepted, but I couldn't really tell for sure if it was quitting on the route or if the ball went very far from where he expected

I think it's reading into it to assume he's trying to keep it alive, but maybe. My thought has been that he sees his career as of late as how one needs to Keep Pounding and success will come.

Sam HAS sucked the last few weeks overall... I 100% agree that Sam Darnold was not worth what we paid, but that doesn't mean PJ is a good backup. I just haven't seen it yet... That could change, but PJ is not careful with the ball in the least and that is a huge concern for me. I'm cool with people thinking I'm being too hard on him. I just don't agree with what you bolded RE: the first few weeks... Darnold was moving the ball very well in his first few starts, and generally taking care of it better than PJ. In his first 3 starts as a Panther, Sam had 6 TDs, 1 INT, just under 900 yards, and that included a blowout of NO. His intended air yards per completion in those games was *twice* what PJ's was yesterday. Yes he had a slightly lower completion % (but still 68%, which is good), and in total he was asked to throw the ball more than PJ. He was taking care of the ball overall well, and better than PJ has... And remember we lost CMC vs HOU and he still actually had a decent game in the 2nd half albeit not perfect (17 2nd half points in fact). None of this is to say Darnold is in any way a better option than anyone else, since he is shell-shocked and done. I'd just rather have a more consistent backup that protects the ball a bit better than PJ.

PJ and Sam aren't similar save that neither takes care of the ball and that is why I think they are both a big risk as backups. You don't want your backup averaging the turnovers either of them do. Hell, PJ has a higher interception % than Darnold, and frankly if you watch him play it is obvious that is the case, too. PJ just makes very bad decisions with the ball very regularly. Same as Darnold. At least PJ is cheap, lol. As to the whole "2-0" thing, if we stop our time slice in week 3, Darnold is 3-0 as a Panther, and he played significantly better than PJ has... As to the game being a blowout so they took the deep balls out, usually 10 yards isn't what I'd call deep but fair. I guess Cam didn't get that memo.

Right but against NE, Sam moved the ball a few times before his turnovers, too. But no Cam to fall back on... Same is true in most non NYG weeks (just look at ATL). The issue has been the red zone and decision making where Darnold has been craaaappp in weeks. PJ definitely is more decisive. For better or worse. And AZ was much worse at bottling the run vs NE (maybe this is an OL and Cam difference too. Maybe they did fear PJ more). Cam did credit CMAC for getting him to the goal line... He really did. That statement isnt a knock on PJ btw. CMAC is just really good.

PJ probably does implode the team without Cam, lol. Darnold DOES suck. That doesn't make PJ good. They look the same, but PJ had an effective run game this game and Darnold didn't. Their passing charts look crazy similar. They both take huge risks. Walker had a 3.7 intended air yards per completion. A third of his throws went to CMC (and half of those caught did). PJ averages 2 turnovers a game when he starts. That is not good. He almost had a third last game that was thankfully called back. If he's gonna keep playing for us, he absolutely needs to clean up his play. He's a more decisive version of Darnold, but that doesn't mean the decisiveness is leading to better decisions lol.

Darnold never played behind an OL this good because he's had Paradis who legit just got forklifted into him multiple times a game and the run blocking was never as good either... Would it have mattered if he had a better OL? I dunno, he is who he is, so he probably regresses either way IMO and I'm glad he did since now we have Cam. But... PJ looked a lot like Darnold did in his first few games, but with shorter passes. PJ leaned on CMC as he should and it paid off. Almost half his receptions to him... and damn, does CMC look incredible. He practically guarantees 7 yards a touch on average. Pj definitely looked better than Darnold the last few weeks, but I don't think he had a good game. Short passes, terrible decisions... Man, it just reminds me of Darnold's games a lot. Can you tell the difference between these charts? (and no, this isn't one of Darnold's good games lol) I'm glad we have Cam coming up tbh.

I thought Jordan and Elf did better than their grades, and Daley a little worse (but not as bad as in the past). But this is just run blocking so I kinda get it. I wanna see overall though. I think Elf made a huge difference in setting protections etc and I doubt that shows up on PFF. I just think the line looked overall soooo much better with him.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think they should try a 2 QB system save for small packages for PJ that Cam hasn't had time to learn and for which PJ is EXTREMELY comfortable. The reason is that Cam NEEDS first team starting reps, and we also know PJ sucks when he doesn't get those reps (see every other game he's played he hasn't started in, lol). Cam needs to get all the reps he can moving forward and I don't want us to stick PJ out there without preparation just to get cute.

It's timing imo. Cam doesn't have the raw arm strength to gun it 50 yards down field on a rope anymore but he doesn't need to. He's always had timing down with guys... Just give it time and imo he'll make it happen

I'm outta pie and news like this makes me so angry that's the case! You motherfugers all deserve pie!!! Keep fuging Pounding!

To be completely honest it looked a lot like our first few offensive games, but with more consistent short yardage red zone plays (Hmm), and definitely better play in the middle of the line which really enabled PJ and CMC to do well. Totally different from the last few weeks since Darnold poo the bed, but felt quite a bit like the first few games of the season... CMC is really dynamic... Luckily now with Cam we will have another dynamic playmaker.

Keep Pounding!

against Detroit he threw an interception when it was 7-0... that's not garbage time... but hopefully you're right, since I suspect he'll be around for a bit longer lol

Since the moment we drafted Cam, some fans have thought he was going to flee at the first opportunity. He never wanted to leave. He was forced out. He never said the kinda stuff Smitty did after either, and while it was clear he was hurt (and I thought the bridge was burnt tbh), it is even more clear he wants to be here now in this situation. Tbh, it is possible that decision to move on from him when we did made him an overall better player and leader, hard to say, but either way... It is clear he wants to be here now, and he is definitely wanted here. All Cam needs to do is lead this team and he'll get paid for sure.

Don't get me wrong, PJ played admirably today, but I think we can do better than him in a backup next year... Dude still makes reckless decisions... I get we shouldn't need to play mistake-free football, but at some point our starting QBs need to stop averaging 2 turnovers a game, and I think Cam will bring that responsible play to the position. But next year I'd like a backup to be someone a bit less prone to mistakes.

If Cam plays like he looks like he will, I have no doubt he'll get a multi year deal next year from us... Listen to how Cam's talking - he's not gonna be the one to walk away from a good offer, and I have no doubt we'll make him a good one.

Cam definitely energized both sides of the ball. The D Has played well all year but there was a different fire... the OL was reborn too, and PJ kept the offense humming until we got near the goal line, which has always been Cam's biggest strength

Of course the pickup of Cam and return of CMC could change everything, but Zane has easily been our MVP on "offense" (yeah I know special teams, but he's the one scoring points lol) this year so far.