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Every great coach is carried by players at the NFL level. Good ones too. Carolina's biggest issue is their talent was always thin. Better to rage about the GMs in Carolina.

Well, you at least morphed them up from mediocre/average to good.

Players and coaches get better and then get worse if they hang around long enough. And players make or break them all. Especially at the pro level. And that’s a different convo. I mean, one day it would be stupid to hire Belichick. That won’t change what he was.

Lot of disagreement is unshared definitions. I mean some who claimed a 12-4 Pro Bowl season should be viewed as a mediocre/average season.

Yeah, but numbers of who is better and worse aren’t comparable groups. One group is much larger. The worse one. it’s like talking QBs. It’s hard to find a good QB. Let alone great or HOF caliber.

Only 1/5 of the coaches in NFL history are above .500 and there are hundreds upon hundreds of them. Fox and Ron were both good coaches. Good coaches have flaws. The next tier does too. The one above that too. it’s easier to do worse. It’s old and isolated new math.

Ok. That’s basically makes Ron a long time HC. He was good. Not great. Not HOF tier. It’s easier to do worse than Ron. And that’s because what you are deeming as an average NFL coach is worse than Ron. That’s the math of it. Most coaches are worse.

Belichick isn’t a great coach without the right talent. Pete Carrol has been blunt on it too. Andy Reid’s playcalling is brilliant or flawed depending who is throwing. Ron was a good coach. Not great. Easier to do worse than better. And hell, Frank is an offensive Ron Rivera. I generally just mix it up when folks go too far. The Ron/Cam slander just goes too far into the comical.

Again, he blew out his shoulder in 2016. That was it. Now you are using all the post 2016 years to diminish what he was. That’s some strong Ron hate. Cam, one good season lol. That’s still nuts to say. Which I suspect you know but can’t admit because your Ron hate caused you to overstep into absurd.

It’s a poo move because Tampa has to spend a pointless day at least on the road. The practice day could have been later in the week and they be at home longer.

Pass protection, audibles, route running, hands…..all things that are pretty important if you got a rookie QB. And Miles’ history on that stuff is checkered. I’d like to bring in a cut vet that can step in to those basics and be reliable for Bryce. Miles’ also has a history of getting knicked up.

They literally had a highlight compilation of the Jets imploding on Hard Knocks. But the Jets are counting 11 sacks by one player and laughing it up ….it probably makes the cut simply because it existed. Not some goal to make us look bad. .

In his 17 year career, Dan Marino won more than 12 games once in his career. Essentially just decent/mediocre seasons by him in 16 of them. And has a worse playoff win% than Cam Imagine if Mr Scott wrote his Hall of Fame introduction. “What are we doing here, this guy had one great season and was a meh the rest of his time”

Rookie of the year, Pro Bowls, All Pro, MVP, Super Bowl, most successful era of franchise history…..and you saying it doesn’t work. Cam shatters the record book as a rookie - you claim that should be deemed mediocre because of wins Cam goes 12–4 or 11-5 and you claim that too is mediocre…..because….well, because…. So how many wins do you want to attach to a season before it would be acceptable to call a year better than mediocre or decent? Because you about to rewrite some narratives on a bunch QBs.

yeah, this is you trying to work your way out of silly statement. Which is why you are now adding "as far as wins" once you were called on that. And it still doesn’t work. Because that means a 12-4 Pro Bowl season is mediocre based off wins with your qualifying statement. Or 11-5 is meh. As far as wins. yeah, most NFL coaches aren't going to roll out and implement a college scheme to suit a player. Which is why Cam Newton and the Panthers were the ones to really bring that heavy into the league. How many attempted such pre-2011. And then you saw a trend because.....well, it worked so well. The Cam era was unique and impactful in many ways.

I mean, the Panthers disrupting them was covered up on Hard Knocks. They had a highlight clip of the Jets O imploding. the only point was, the Jets DL seemed to have no problem disrupting us in practice. And that wasn't talked about much going into the game where they did the same thing. People keep calling it gameplanning we weren't prepared for on Sat. I disagree with that. They were running simple stunts on Sat. You practice that. That's not gameplanning. and they appeared to of done to some extent in practice too. Which we struggled with then too.

I mean, you are projecting an argument out there. Which is why I said it was weird to even ask that. Ron didn't develop Cam. He hired people to do that. Ron was a defensive guy. Which is the model you would want for a defensive HC. Cam went on rewrite the history books as rookie. Probably has some records that will hold for decades simply because of how unique he was. You said Cam had one good season. It was the best window in our franchises history. Arguing against your narrative here simply because I think it is bad and wrong. Ron was flawed. Few coaches would have had the success w/ Cam Ron did. Because the NFL isn't a place where guys like Cam were allowed to flourish. Ron watered Cam to be full Cam. And that was always going to be the best outcome.

You asked a question about what Ron Rivera would do to develop Bryce? Why? Who knows. But I answered based on what Ron has done. You steered it there. Answer your on question then. What would your villain Ron do. Because clearly you are bullshitting and not even wanting to talk about what you claim to want to discuss.

lol, wut? Ron is a defensive coordinator. He hired Mike Shula to develop Cam Newton. He hired an OC that would play to Cam's strengths. Which is why Carolina brought the zone and RPO heavy scheme into the NFL. That's what Ron did. You tell me what Ron would do to develop Bryce then. Because all I did was repeat the only example we got.

I mean, even Aaron Rodgers was giggling and had to go to his toes on the "sacks" they were counting in practice against our O. Not sure we embarrassed them as bad was a painted here. We had our moments yeah, but it might of been understated how well the Jets dealt with our OL in practice simply because ESPN and the likes wanted to focus on Rodgers getting frustrated when we caused some problems.

I think this narrative that the Jets somehow game planned and did all this extra stuff....is largely just a fanbase coping with the fact the unreal expectations are already having to come down a bit so soon. They stunted. That's a pretty vanilla aspect to a DL. You practice that like everything else. I'm pretty sure the Jets even did it practice that week. It's like a QB pump faking and claiming that is unfair to do in a preseason game. Claiming that's gameplanning because your DB bought hard on it.

I think it's Ron bashing bleeding over. and Ron's our best coach to date that saw the most success in franchise history. And took the franchise to highest it's ever been in terms of league relevancy. Perfect? No. But in world of where to hold Panther grudges...Ron isn't where I would fixate.

Could be some disconnect between reporters and players. Reporters talk about the Bryce pass….Jets players acknowledging in reality that play never likely gets off if they could go after Bryce.

They did show the Panther D frustrating the Jets and having them out of rhythm at one point . Which matched up with what we were hearing But they also really highlighted the Jets DL whipping our tail in practice just like in the game. Which we weren’t hearing. So it doesn’t sound like Panther OL simply had trouble with stunts they allegedly weren’t prepared for. Sounds like the Jets just mauled them all week up front. Granted it seemed largely to be a best player on a good unit having a good day. and as far as the game went. We got smacked. You don’t have to edit it to make the Jets look good.

It’s the QB carve out. Because we account for great seasons all the time on play. Take the Denver game of 2016 we were talking about. Cam got utterly abused. Head hunted. One of the grossest games I have seen. And in the end he got them right into position to win the game. Kick either gets made or misses. Cam was Cam. But the kick result determines the narrative. Which fairly and unfairly too often blurs QB discussions. I mean Manning won a Super Bowl in Denver. Reality is no one should actually give that weight in his all time ranking. He was benched for sucking that year. He sucked when he got back. Was a liability for them in the game.