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I mean, I have acknowledged Ron was flawed. Same with Fox. Again, flawed but good coaches vs their peers It’s a bigger convo than them. But that gets in the way of your Ron fixation. Last 2 decades. HCs. GMs. Owners. That makes your front office. Weakest link of that trio over the last 2 decades isn’t the coaches. Fox and Ron are better at their jobs than Hurney and Gettlemen.

Oh, well if THE Dan Synder said so. I’m not shorting circuiting my argument. My argument is and has always been the NFL is largely a player/talent league. You need a certain caliber HC and then it becomes about the talent. Ron and Fox were both good coaches. They checked the box. Then it became about getting them the right talent. And it’s not a science and a lot of luck comes into play, Good coaches maximize talent. Ron doesn’t. Because of Cam. A dude who broke records day one and will hold some for potentially decades. So let’s look elsewhere at some bigger names Ron had come in from elsewhere on O. 3 biggest names I can think of would be the following and they all trend the same way. Olsen - became a multi Pro Bowler in Carolina Tolbert - became a multi pro bowler in Carolina Ginn Jr - bust and who had the best window of his career in Carolina They all spent years elsewhere and looked their best here. Ron needed a better GM. Just like Fox needed one. Panthers gave them both a sportswriter who made life easy. That’s an ownership issue too. GM IMO has been THE biggest issue over the last 2 decades. And then you have to get into ownership. Both of which have been issues since the window Richardson pulled out the pie chart. Contracts, management of draft picks, and free agency. That’s where I look more so than who stood on the sidelines. Rhule excluded. He didn’t check the box. Talking Fox/Rivera.

Mr Scott and I save up for a yearly go at it.

True. You give any coach a Payton Manning and they are going to win a lot. Cam is basically a unique player in NFL history though. Because what made him a dominant QB was his running and how he ran. And everyone wants to compare him to elite passers in a league designed for them. Belichick was 5-13 with Bledsoe those first 2 seasons in New England. That’s not playing well. Tom Brady built a dynasty. He also made Belichick the best coach. And the league molded around Brady.

I mean, you don’t actually address any post made to you. Has Bill been carried by his QB? and you just ignore and paint everything in a Ron is bad context. Ron drafted a QB. Started him as a rookie. Cam grew. Got better. They won in year 3. They were going to win games as Cam and Luke developed. lot of luck in sports. But yeah, it’s a talent game. And Carolina hit a long stretch where too few did the lifting. It becomes a problem when they can’t in games. Ron isn’t winning in Washington because he doesn’t have the talent where he needs it. Like basically all coaches in the tier he lives in. It’s a talent game. And to suggest Ron has had total control in shitshow DC is a tough sell. Ron is there because he is a good coach. And the shitshow needed a man of his character to help in tough times. And he has done it all while whipping cancer. He is a bad mofo. One of the good ones in this league.

9 seasons as a NFL HC 72-74 3 winning seasons 1-2 in the playoffs NFL is about talent. It makes or breaks the majority of coaches. Especially, where you do and don't have the talent. That's Bill Belichick in the NFL when Tom Brady (the GOAT at the most important position in the NFL) isn't his starting QB. then there are the incompetent and bad coaches. Or those that aren't ready to lead a bunch of highly paid athletes. They generally stand out in any situation. Coaching at the NFL level is a people business in many aspects. Biggest problem for Carolina really post pie chart lockout talk.....has been the GM spot. Fox and Rivera were both good enough. Rhule wasn't. Frank is basically the opposite of the coin and an offensive Fox/Rivera. So hopefully he will be good enough too.

Every great coach is carried by players at the NFL level. Good ones too. Carolina's biggest issue is their talent was always thin. Better to rage about the GMs in Carolina.

Well, you at least morphed them up from mediocre/average to good.

Players and coaches get better and then get worse if they hang around long enough. And players make or break them all. Especially at the pro level. And that’s a different convo. I mean, one day it would be stupid to hire Belichick. That won’t change what he was.

Lot of disagreement is unshared definitions. I mean some who claimed a 12-4 Pro Bowl season should be viewed as a mediocre/average season.

Yeah, but numbers of who is better and worse aren’t comparable groups. One group is much larger. The worse one. it’s like talking QBs. It’s hard to find a good QB. Let alone great or HOF caliber.

Only 1/5 of the coaches in NFL history are above .500 and there are hundreds upon hundreds of them. Fox and Ron were both good coaches. Good coaches have flaws. The next tier does too. The one above that too. it’s easier to do worse. It’s old and isolated new math.

Ok. That’s basically makes Ron a long time HC. He was good. Not great. Not HOF tier. It’s easier to do worse than Ron. And that’s because what you are deeming as an average NFL coach is worse than Ron. That’s the math of it. Most coaches are worse.

Belichick isn’t a great coach without the right talent. Pete Carrol has been blunt on it too. Andy Reid’s playcalling is brilliant or flawed depending who is throwing. Ron was a good coach. Not great. Easier to do worse than better. And hell, Frank is an offensive Ron Rivera. I generally just mix it up when folks go too far. The Ron/Cam slander just goes too far into the comical.

Again, he blew out his shoulder in 2016. That was it. Now you are using all the post 2016 years to diminish what he was. That’s some strong Ron hate. Cam, one good season lol. That’s still nuts to say. Which I suspect you know but can’t admit because your Ron hate caused you to overstep into absurd.

It’s a poo move because Tampa has to spend a pointless day at least on the road. The practice day could have been later in the week and they be at home longer.

Pass protection, audibles, route running, hands…..all things that are pretty important if you got a rookie QB. And Miles’ history on that stuff is checkered. I’d like to bring in a cut vet that can step in to those basics and be reliable for Bryce. Miles’ also has a history of getting knicked up.

They literally had a highlight compilation of the Jets imploding on Hard Knocks. But the Jets are counting 11 sacks by one player and laughing it up ….it probably makes the cut simply because it existed. Not some goal to make us look bad. .

In his 17 year career, Dan Marino won more than 12 games once in his career. Essentially just decent/mediocre seasons by him in 16 of them. And has a worse playoff win% than Cam Imagine if Mr Scott wrote his Hall of Fame introduction. “What are we doing here, this guy had one great season and was a meh the rest of his time”

Rookie of the year, Pro Bowls, All Pro, MVP, Super Bowl, most successful era of franchise history…..and you saying it doesn’t work. Cam shatters the record book as a rookie - you claim that should be deemed mediocre because of wins Cam goes 12–4 or 11-5 and you claim that too is mediocre…..because….well, because…. So how many wins do you want to attach to a season before it would be acceptable to call a year better than mediocre or decent? Because you about to rewrite some narratives on a bunch QBs.

yeah, this is you trying to work your way out of silly statement. Which is why you are now adding "as far as wins" once you were called on that. And it still doesn’t work. Because that means a 12-4 Pro Bowl season is mediocre based off wins with your qualifying statement. Or 11-5 is meh. As far as wins. yeah, most NFL coaches aren't going to roll out and implement a college scheme to suit a player. Which is why Cam Newton and the Panthers were the ones to really bring that heavy into the league. How many attempted such pre-2011. And then you saw a trend because.....well, it worked so well. The Cam era was unique and impactful in many ways.

I mean, the Panthers disrupting them was covered up on Hard Knocks. They had a highlight clip of the Jets O imploding. the only point was, the Jets DL seemed to have no problem disrupting us in practice. And that wasn't talked about much going into the game where they did the same thing. People keep calling it gameplanning we weren't prepared for on Sat. I disagree with that. They were running simple stunts on Sat. You practice that. That's not gameplanning. and they appeared to of done to some extent in practice too. Which we struggled with then too.

I mean, you are projecting an argument out there. Which is why I said it was weird to even ask that. Ron didn't develop Cam. He hired people to do that. Ron was a defensive guy. Which is the model you would want for a defensive HC. Cam went on rewrite the history books as rookie. Probably has some records that will hold for decades simply because of how unique he was. You said Cam had one good season. It was the best window in our franchises history. Arguing against your narrative here simply because I think it is bad and wrong. Ron was flawed. Few coaches would have had the success w/ Cam Ron did. Because the NFL isn't a place where guys like Cam were allowed to flourish. Ron watered Cam to be full Cam. And that was always going to be the best outcome.

You asked a question about what Ron Rivera would do to develop Bryce? Why? Who knows. But I answered based on what Ron has done. You steered it there. Answer your on question then. What would your villain Ron do. Because clearly you are bullshitting and not even wanting to talk about what you claim to want to discuss.

lol, wut? Ron is a defensive coordinator. He hired Mike Shula to develop Cam Newton. He hired an OC that would play to Cam's strengths. Which is why Carolina brought the zone and RPO heavy scheme into the NFL. That's what Ron did. You tell me what Ron would do to develop Bryce then. Because all I did was repeat the only example we got.