CRA

I think this narrative that the Jets somehow game planned and did all this extra stuff....is largely just a fanbase coping with the fact the unreal expectations are already having to come down a bit so soon. They stunted. That's a pretty vanilla aspect to a DL. You practice that like everything else. I'm pretty sure the Jets even did it practice that week. It's like a QB pump faking and claiming that is unfair to do in a preseason game. Claiming that's gameplanning because your DB bought hard on it.

I think it's Ron bashing bleeding over. and Ron's our best coach to date that saw the most success in franchise history. And took the franchise to highest it's ever been in terms of league relevancy. Perfect? No. But in world of where to hold Panther grudges...Ron isn't where I would fixate.

Could be some disconnect between reporters and players. Reporters talk about the Bryce pass….Jets players acknowledging in reality that play never likely gets off if they could go after Bryce.

They did show the Panther D frustrating the Jets and having them out of rhythm at one point . Which matched up with what we were hearing But they also really highlighted the Jets DL whipping our tail in practice just like in the game. Which we weren’t hearing. So it doesn’t sound like Panther OL simply had trouble with stunts they allegedly weren’t prepared for. Sounds like the Jets just mauled them all week up front. Granted it seemed largely to be a best player on a good unit having a good day. and as far as the game went. We got smacked. You don’t have to edit it to make the Jets look good.

It’s the QB carve out. Because we account for great seasons all the time on play. Take the Denver game of 2016 we were talking about. Cam got utterly abused. Head hunted. One of the grossest games I have seen. And in the end he got them right into position to win the game. Kick either gets made or misses. Cam was Cam. But the kick result determines the narrative. Which fairly and unfairly too often blurs QB discussions. I mean Manning won a Super Bowl in Denver. Reality is no one should actually give that weight in his all time ranking. He was benched for sucking that year. He sucked when he got back. Was a liability for them in the game.

Von Miller said if they played the game 10 times that Denver might get 2. Best team doesn’t always win. Getting lucky can matter. Or unlucky. Which staff was better? That year? The one that was 18-1 entering the game. Ron would hire someone to develop Young. He is a defensive guy and that would be that. And Ron likely finds an OC that would cater to Young’s strengths. And that’s that. Cam rewrote the record books as a rookie if I recall. But that’s largely because we played to his strengths and it was new and unique. I was always fine with the Ron Cam approach because he was an anomaly. He wasn’t going to be like anyone else and didn’t want a coach that attempted it. Said it before he was drafted. I wanted to draft Cam but it was conditional on a coach actually letting him be the freak and not trying to make him a normal QB. And I never thought he would have a long career. It just went different in being the shorter one than I thought. I thought his legs would go and be why we moved on.

Well, we probably would have had more losses than 1 that year if the D let the opposing #1 WRs go for nearly 200 yards. Refs had more to do with that Super Bowl L than Denver figuring out Cam. Even Von Miller said they got lucky and Carolina was just flat out the better team. He would have loved to of claimed they just had a great gameplan and formula to stop Cam….and not credit it to getting lucky. Most would have even if they got lucky. It was an old school model. Instead of run and play D it was Cam and play D. If you ain’t got one….it’s going to be a tough day. Flawed? Yes. Just like the run and play D approach was.

Not following you. Mike Shula became OC in 2013. They figured it out after the first Shula game? Cam went on to the Pro Bowl in 2013. Was an All Pro 2 years later and was close to pulling off a perfect season. That’s an odd definition of figured out after one game. Or you talking just 2016 and Denver being allowed to head hunt Cam in the pocket? Which sent a message to the league about how they would officiate Cam uniquely? That’s figuring things out? And if I recall Cam still got them in position for the game winner. Kicker just missed the 2nd one after they called a time out after hitting the first. Panthers D going south had more to do with things going south than the league suddenly figuring Cam Newton out in 2016. Again, they largely figured they could try to take him out. And again, his career essentially ended that season with the shoulder injury.

That’s a tough sell boss. That it took the NFL 6 years to figure out what Cam did…..and it is was that and not his shoulder injury that did his career in. And if your fixation is 2016 off the Super Bowl rewrite the rules to murder Cam season that he hurt his shoulder in, the Panther D went drastically backward. Went from top 10 to bottom 10. And when your model is Cam and D. You need the D for the formula to work. Didn’t help Luke and Cam only shared the field 9 times that year.

Cam provided a lot more than one great season. He gave you one all time great season. Bunch of “mediocre” Pro Bowl seasons you had stomach through. Figured him out in year 6? The injury that wrecked his throwing was in 2016. Which Cam acknowledged never healed. I mean teams figured out in the opener the league would allow hack a Shaq and that Cam was officially an anomaly in terms of calls. I’ll give you that.

I think a slow start seems to be easy assumption. Rookie, new schemes, Frank's history. I think after the bye week we start making some strides of it all coming together. and get to around where Vegas has the over/under at. 7ish.

Cam Newton went to New England after being run into the ground.....and logged the 2nd most attempts in his career, had the 2nd most rushing TDs in his career, 2nd most first downs in his career and was a battering ram. He wasn't run down. Running remained the one thing he could do. And he won more games than us, with a worse team, in less games that year. What killed Cam Newton's career was a shoulder injury he received making a tackle off an INT. A fluke. Best OL in the NFL doesn't prevent that. Because a fat lazy WR gave up on the play the moment he didn't get the ball. That fluke injury ended his career. Because he couldn't throw after it. You could never measure Cam by traditional standards. Not in college. Not in the NFL. He was uniquely built to run. So the hit number doesn't hold the same weight as if we were talking about a traditional passer. Or even a scrambler. Cam was essentially an anomaly.

top 10 worst defenses against the run? We logged 9 games vs them. That probably helps

I mean, Hunt is a 3rd down RB. They were willing to put Nick Freaking Chubb on the sideline for Hunt. Sanders was a frustrating RB in Philly in terms of reliability after his rookie year in terms of dual threat reliability. Talented. Good runner. Capable.

Ron allowed Cam to be special. Not try to make a square peg fit the round hole that was the NFL QB spot. Cam hurt his shoulder making a tackle because KB is lazy. Messed up his foot juking on NE's turf. Cam wasn't run into the ground by Ron. NE was proof of that. Gas tank still full for the dirty work. Still full today. As Cam said, you got to let a lion roar. Ron did and it was probably THE best window in our franchise's history because of it.

I mean, Ron let Cam Newton play literally the only way he has ever played the game. His 2 national titles. His MVP Super Bowl run. All the same formula. And that approach took him to the top at every level. and the injuries that derailed his career were two fluke ones that weren't tied to OL play or wear and tear of hits. and I still maintain there aren't a lot of teams that would have gotten what Ron got out of Cam. Imperfect as it was. Cam went to one of the best places he could of possibly gone to. And that's because of Ron. Too many would have insisted on coaching him into being something not special and playing to his weakness to fit what they do.

I mean, Hunt would be the best dual threat on the roster. Basically, the exact type RB I argued we should add to compliment the backfield. But I'm not a fan of Hunt the person. I'd rather pass.

yeah, it's a weird one for me. The "see we can win without top tier WRs just look at 2015". we won with a MVP QB caliber performance by one of the most unique players in NFL history at his peak paired with a stellar D. A D that featured multiple future HOFers, Panther Ring of Honor members, former Pro Bowlers, etc. 2015 should never be mentioned as an example of why the 2023 team can find success. I mean, I'm not looking to knock the team. Folks just taking us to places too far for me.

Frank's never developed anyone either though. Ron played to his player's strengths. Cam shows that. Which is the way it should be. People rage about Ron letting Cam be Cam. But that is how it should of been IMO.

The Panthers went to the Super Bowl because they had a unique and historical QB in his prime with a top of tier defense. We don't align with that formula.

Frank Reich should not call plays and just focus on being the HC. Let the OC be the OC.

But even on paper going in, end of the Ron era was still stacked with talent. Injury caused us to go to the backup QB in week 2. QB play was the ultimate derailment. Injury forced it to be a Kyle Allen, Will Grier season. Going in, it was still a roster that featured CMC, DJ Moore, Olsen, Samuel, Turner, Moton, etc. O. Luke, Shaq, Bradberry, Burns, McCoy, Irvin, Addison, Poe, Jackson, Reid, etc on D. I don't dislike where we are at presently. Think we are building a fine base of players. I just think it is being exaggerated and everything based on everyone hitting the full optimistic path.

Denver was last in points per game last year. I would make a wager they will improve dramatically from that. Sean Payton might be a douche but Denver will be in a drastically different place form a coaching standpoint. We talking close to the shifts of moving on from a Rhule or Urban. I mean it was comedy from the start.

I mean, NFL history says your take is wrong. Our history too. Teams change a lot. It's why a team like the 2015 squad will not be on the radar at this time . At all. Or other teams you think will be strong....flop. Each season is it's own beast. You mention Denver. No one thought they would suck as bad they did last year. And it's probably a safe bet they will be nowhere near as awful this year as you are penciling them in as simply because last year existed.

it's a rebuild when you trade away your stud playmakers to acquire draft picks, hire a new HC and staff, plan to start a rookie QB, and have brand new D and O schemes that the entire team whether new or old has to learn. That's a rebuild. this team won 7 games as by product of a weak schedule. Not because they were playing good football or were good. It would have been a 1 win team with a tough schedule. The fixation on a bad team stumbling to 7 wins and somehow that carrying weight on how many we win this season just doesn't jive.