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how is that really any different than me saying the core is Frank Reich and Brown and company added their own to it? It’s just worded different. And Frank clearly had been calling his signature O. Maybe when Frank was spewing junk about keeping the offense under wraps all preseason and then doing the exact same stuff when the season started…was a hint at Thomas’ stuff. But the Panthers came out the gate with the Frank stuff. An I still dont see that as a controversial take. I mean if Thomas Brown himself is saying his playbook was essentially taking 60% of Franks stuff and using that…..and based off what we have seen?? That’s called using Franks core O IMO. They just don’t word it like that

I don’t think you really understand where I am coming from. Or intend to. You seem to think I am insulting Brown. Brown and Evero have been the only things about this all star staff I liked. Which I have long voiced. the first good step was getting Frank off playcalling the next good step would be Brown moving away from the Frank Reich core O that we heavily opened the year doing. That Frank was calling. There is more in the book than that but to deny that’s what we have been doing just seems silly.

I mean for the 100th time. Thomas Brown did help create it. So did others. I mean, that’s projecting an argument I’m not saying. Im saying he didn’t build it from the ground up. Core is and has been Frank Reich’s offense. Brown and company are adding their tweaks. Company line can be whatever they want it be on that. Only this week has it suddenly been some grand issue to call it what it is. And it has been called that all season. My hope continues to be what it was when Frank stepped aside. Which I posted on. That we start to see more and more McVay being implemented into this thing. Because the Frank Reich approach is going to get Bryce Young hurt. We don’t have the talent. Just math.

I mean you can find NFL teams saying all kids of fluff going into a season and in season. You can treat it like the 10 Commandments. I don’t. We came out running vintage Frank Reich offense. Panthers saying Brown was tasked with building the O while not even being allowed to call plays here is super. What the Carolina Panthers actually came out doing has been vintage Frank Reich though.

lol, that’s not the argument. It would be the start of the convo. I mean you were the one questioning if I knew anything about the Frank O. Well, that’s where I would start the conversation. It’s a Frank signature….and if you were to acknowledge that then we could keep walking and talking and going more in-depth. Because it’s always impacted his offensives in a negative manner when the talent wasn’t there and he failed to adjust. SD, Indy and Carolina. Same issues pop. Run game and pass game.

I mean, this convo has been done before. If you want an honest one I’ll have it. If an opening to the convo is meet with me…..doesn’t matter, what else you got then I don’t think that would represent someone interested in a legit convo

I mean, if you read my posts that where I would start the convo. If there was going to be one. People demanded proof. That's not the whole convo. As I said in that post, if we can acknoledge that then we can get into how they run and pass out of it. But if basic facts of Frank vs the McVay don't actually matter....then is there really a discussion that is sought here on that? Doesn't seem like it. Because instead of acknowledging a base Frank signature.....it's just well, nah, Bryce Young voids the discussion.

I'm referencing discussions that were already had on this board in detail.

Nah, boss, no one is riled up. You simply demanding someone prove to you something and at the same time claiming none of it has ever been discussed. I'll be glad to talk about why I dislike Frank's offense. Let's start with a primary issue and a Frank signature issue. The over usage of the shotgun formation that his O runs out of. And you can go check the % in SD. The % in Indy. And now the % in Carolina. That's Frank. There is thread that has the yearly % on here. Generally speaking, a light % for Frank would be a heavier year for McVay. I mean, if you concede that, we can talk about how Frank runs and passes out of it. In an ideal world, I don't have a problem w/ that given we drafted Bryce Young. I think he needs a scheme that basically over uses it. Problem is, the issues it creates when you don't have the OL talent and skill talent to pull it off. Which we don't. And Frank's teams have struggled to adjust when the talent isn't there to be doing it. Which got him and his O booted 2x already.

Where was the energy the first 6 weeks? When Frank and his poo O were being talked about from preseason to week 6. Now, suddenly this week, you got a problem with me saying what has been said all season? and it's you choosing to paint this lie narrative. I call it PR and bullshit. All teams and coaches do it. That's sports. Another? Claiming this roster was a young QB away from legitimately competing. That was always PR bologna. What else are they going to tell a fanbase that hasn't seen a winning season a half decade and that traded away all of our stud/fan favorites going into this year.... Or these guys are grossly incompetent. Because the talent around the QB is weak and that was talked about this offseason. You pick which one you prefer on that. Blowing smoke or these folks can't see some really basic stuff.

we are undefeated with you banned

just to be clear, that quote was in 2020 when Matt Rhule was hired. He then immediately dumped Cam and signed Teddy Bridgewater. I mean, it's a coach point blank saying something.....that wasn't true. And there are a million examples by coaches, GMs, owners of that. I just picked a random one. The point is simply you can't use the quote of someone in a NFL front office and think that should squash all talk in an internet message board. and yeah, I find it hard to believe any front office in the NFL would have everyone inside their building all with the same thought on Bryce, Stroud, Richardson. They all 3 are too different. I would assume there were different opinions on that #1 overall pick because that would just be the normal thing. Who knows who was where.

Mingo is a raw rookie WR that isn't even coming off a dominant college career. That has always made him a project. I think Mingo while young actually projects best in the role Thielen has locked up.

"I absolutely want Cam here," Rhule said on Tuesday at the NFL scouting combine. "There's no doubt about that." Cam on the streets. NFL teams say all sorts of things. Some true. Some knowingly not true. They aren't in the business of being honest with the masses. And there are a billion examples of it with every team. That's why it's okay for people on a message board to waste time thinking what they want. Because but "so and so said different"......has proven to be an unreliable source. Who knows who wanted Bryce vs Stroud vs Richardson. In the end, they are always going to say they all agreed. You wouldn't want an org to actually be in agreement on every decision.

I argued he didn't build this O on his own from the ground. That's PR fluff. And that's what folks were saying yesterday. That doesn't pass even the most basic eyeball test. They took Frank's core O and installed it. Which makes sense given Frank was going to come in and call plays and Brown has never been an OC. Then have been attempting to tweak it. It sure as heck needs it. But it's largely to date just been vintage Frank's O. That's my only point. With the same problems his O routinely saw in every spot it's been run. To deny that, means to ignore what this football team has done on the field to date. and I have largely championed Brown should of been allowed to do whatever he wanted from day 1 because I don't like Frank's O and Frank sucks calling the O..... and we need way more of the McVay influence. Because on the year, there has been very very little of it. Hopefully we see more and more change and get further away from Frank's bread and butter.

that's the thing. No one has claimed their is zero truth to it. That's what NFL teams do. They use partial truths. They set narratives. Images. etc. I mean, if you want to argue Brown on his own built an offense that just happened to be a clone of Frank's on his own accord then so be it. But what we rolled out this season has been Frank's offense. Are there tweaks to it? Sure. That's what the offensive staff does. And that happens every year in an offense. I'm sure Brown has been busy adding his touches to it. But to deny the core of what the 2023 Panthers have built isn't Frank's offense? That's just denying what is on the field. Because it's the same thing Frank ran in Indy and SD. That's the bulk of what we have seen. Not McVay's O. Not even much of a blend. It's been heavily weighted in one direction. Frank. And it's why people were begging and dreaming when it was announced we would hopefully start to see some of that classic McVay stuff start to show. Statements from NFL teams are fine. Actions matter more. And the 2023 Panthers have been running Frank's core O. Maybe Thomas Brown (the first time OC who wasn't allowed to come in here and call plays) wanted to do that all on his own through no influence of Frank. But that gets hard to believe that he would come from the McVay tree and insist and mimicking so heavily what Frank has done for years. Considering they didn't know each other or have ties.

I call it PR. Crafting narrative and perception. Literally something every company does. Do you think the Panthers tell the public actually what is going on in that building? Do you think any team actually does that. It is just a fact coaches and NFL teams get asked a billion questions and they choose not to give the actual truth. And I'm not even argue they should. No companies really do that. We hired Frank Reich. Who from the jump was going to call plays. And our offense is a clone of what he did in Indy and SD. A literal clone. That comes with a lot of the same problems that popped up in SD and Indy with it. I do believe Thomas Brown when he says his O would be a blend of Frank's and what he did with the Rams. Because it's Frank's offense. That what we have seen with our own eyes. That's not really debatable. And he is tinkering with it. The tinkering is the blend.

I get torn on that. If you don't have the caliber of OL to be dropped back in the shotgun all game, every week......at some point that is coaching/playcalling. there is a reason why the OL looked good last year and bad this year IMO. It was the playcalling and what they were asked to do. Basically Bryce Young fits the shotgun heavy scheme we are doing. The OL and RBs don't. And frankly our WRs don't fit the heavy pass game scheme either. They can't get open and got no speed.

I think Ron and Fox had more energy.

lol, you intentionally don’t seem to be able to acknowledge why Brady was ever discussed between you and I. People like you were scapegoating THE primary problem. Joe Brady wasn’t it. That was always the core of that convo. Firing Brady wouldn’t solve anything. And it didn’t. Proven fact. We actually got worse. I can see it now. You probably watching Nebraska games rooting for Matt Rhule to show us!! Come on Rhule! But it’s always the same. Matt Rhule teams have bad offenses. Because of Matt Rhule. But I’m done talking about your champion Matt Rhule.

I’m at the point where I think the best we can hope for is unpredictable playcalling and smart play within that. reality is, our team is flat out limited in terms of skill talent around the QB. So there is a ceiling of what can realistically hope to see out of this team. scariest part is this front office and staff viewed this roster as good enough coming in and was a QB away. The more time that goes by and the more you watch people break us down….the more it highlights how well Bryce is surviving in a horrible situation. everything for me comes back to needing Fitt out of here. And that highlighting another mistake. We should have fired Fitt with Rhule. Because when we do fire him we get a GM stuck with a retread HC that he probably wouldn’t have wanted.

lot of orgs set narratives publicly that aren't actually the reality of things inside. For a host of reasons. Heck, most isn't fair. Everyone does variations of it. Brown also said during the early PR campaign on Brown when he was hired and wasn't allowed to actually be the full OC that "his" offense would be a blend of what the Rams did and what Frank in Indy did. The one he was going to build from the ground up in a handful of short weeks. And that blend, just happens to be a legit clone of Frank's O. The O Frank and not Brown would be calling.

I mean if Thielen is our #1 option and he treating/viewing him as such.....Thielen isn't a good primary WR by NFL standards.

my guess is he is a QB and has a lot of QB friends....Thielen isn't very popular. As in runs his mouth too much for QBs liking. Aren't there tons of clips of him going off on Cousins in Minny? OR Thielen is just the prettiest ugly chick here. Who we force feed. And we are sort of blinded by the fact he really isn't that good. But he logs our receiving yards between the 20s and is all we have doing it.

I mean, if you look at Luvu's stretch of starts since arriving. It's not Luke. But it's probably better than Beason. Obviously, it's not fair sample size to really make that head to head but Luvu has been dang good.