CRA

I can say it one last time, for you to intentionally confuse. When poo hits the fan, everyone engages in PR, spin, and half truths. All sides. I clearly never said Matt Rhule isn't the truth teller. No one is. Said everyone is working in partial and selective truths to make themselves look good. That's a universal stance. I simply don't ignore the partial truths that come from outside the current offices of BOA. Matt Rhule was a big problem. Matt Rhule wasn't all of our problems. Everyone has blame on their hands that has been in Carolina. Hardly a radical concept. Heck, Matt Rhule should of never even been allowed to attempt a year 3. And it's why he was fired after 6 games in a predictably pointless season. It was an embarrassing comedy after 2 seasons. And Urban Meyer being an all time comedy show doesn't change what we were despite it giving some cover to this organization in addition to being a small market. That was obvious. Well, it wasn't to the defenders of a bad front office at the time. again, as you said, it's never one man....but that's your argument.

He is no more a liar than Tepper or the 31 other NFL teams. Which again, is my stance. They all do the same nonsense. And again, you are contradicting your own stance.... that it's never one man. But that's your actual argument. Yes, and you harping on the kid thing now just shows you have gone blind on this on the Rhule issue. Yes, that is just Rhule being a dad and again it totally makes sense. You got kids? An 8 year old wouldn't find it very comfortable to be in arena of thousands upon thousands of thousands of strangers....booing and heckling him and his family. 8 is a 2nd or 3rd grader. People saying the type nonsense in real life that is said on a message board? So again, it totally makes sense that his kids didn't feel comfortable with all that and no longer could do those things. That's where you got to separate football fandom and real life. Matt Rhule was a poo NFL coach. Nothing more. But you need him to more than that. Not me. And no one was harder on the coach than me. But he was only part of the problem. As you said, it's never one man despite your argument that it is.

Yeah, I think most guys in this world speak partial truths and I treat/view them all the same. You continue to blame one man for all the problems. Which as you said is never the case…..but that is exactly your repeated case. and yeah, Rhule wasn’t a POS human like an Urban. He just was a trainwreck at his NFL job. He got praise til the end and after on the human aspect.. So if he felt like he got too much and wanted to defend himself a little to narratives that weren’t really accurate? I can see some truth in what he said. Because frankly it just makes sense that it wasn’t all him. That kid comment is just that. That’s where the coach hate drifts into the absurd. Which I enjoy as much as the next person on a message board. But yeah, his comment actually makes sense as a father of young kids. Easy to see how little kids felt threatened and they no longer could go.

lol, you mean in the Fitterer thread? Yeah, he sort of is the focus. and I still have mentioned and blamed Rhule, Tepper, and Marty....in the thread about Fitt. You know, everyone else. and I largely just acknowledge there is some truth likely in everything. While Matt Rhule was a totally unqualified and bad NFL coach. Everyone generally had good things to say about the human. And while it's fun to joke about the con job there is no reason to think he is a legit liar. I think there are partial truths on his end. Which get ignored in favor of the partial truth of guys still in black and blue. And Matt Rhule specifically came out and addressed what he called the myth of him making all the roster moves, picks, etc. as he was trashed out the door. So, I think there is some truth there. Yeah, reporters like to remind you but in the contract it said he had final say if he wanted it.... but Rhule wanting to clarify that after his firing doesn't sound like he universally took advantage of that. And some of the bad decisions came from other minds in the front office that were paid to make those decisions.

my narrative is simply that Tepper, Hurney, Rhule, Fitt all were part of the mess that has been the Panthers. All of them.

The logic of not scapegoating all blame to one person is consistent. Even guys I dislike. And you basically are playing both sides of the fence. Saying well it's a team and everyone is mixed up in one breath and then arguing against someone for saying Tepper/Fitt/Hurney all had their hands in the mess. and your biggest difference, has nothing to do with the actual convo. Literally no one has suggested that of Fitt.

RBs - 2011 WRs - 2011 TEs - 2011 OL - 2011 It's pretty much a clean sweep IMO.

I mean, 2011 had HOF WR that could turn nothing into something. Which is basically a cheat. He alone gives 2011 the edge. You might also could argue you really have to include the TEs given how that was prioritized in terms of the pass game. And that really slants it to 2011.

Then why argue when I say everyone deserves their fair share of the blame for the gigantic mess that has been the Panthers? And that people can't scapegoat it all to Rhule and act like others weren't part of it. and at least I am consistent in how I judge. Agree or not. It's like when people attempted to pin all our offensive woes on Joe Brady in year 2. Joe Brady had his issues. But he was the scapegoat for all the offensive problems by some here. We didn't just have an OC problem with our O. and while Matt Rhule was a massive part of the problem. The primary one. He wasn't the only problem in the Rhule era.

Unless we want to be critical of the last 3 years.....then it's just one guy.

I never disputed Rhule's interest and fixation on marketing/social media. As I said, that makes sense for a college coach to care about that. Well, to wrongly care about. Because they come from a world of recruiting kids. One of the many reasons Rhule was unqualified because he didn't get what matters in the NFL and doesn't. I'm sure a lot of people were annoyed with Rhule going outside a NFL coach's realm. Not disputing that. and that being true, doesn't mean a proven hands-on billionaire gave total control to a nobody for years as the entire org was being laughed at nationally post year 1. And yeah, I get the "rumblings" from inside Bank of America that said it was all Rhule after things went bad. The rumblings from inside where everyone else part of that nightmare era was left still standing in the end. But if it was all Matt Rhule? I don't get any argument that Fitt is good. Because he has no resume of anything as a GM then. Not here or elsewhere. Everything tied to his name.... hasn't stepped on a field for us. Or is that all Frank?

again, if Rhule has complete power and is the actual GM....why did you need to fire Marty? Who was a textbook do whatever you tell me GM to process what Rhule wanted done? Marty can do that type job as good as anyone. Everyone likes Marty. Easy going. Get the guy you want and pay him. and no, every front office doesn't do what the coach wants all time. We know that. After everyone is done we always here about who wanted what and who got it in different regimes/orgs. you claimed you had stone cold facts about the power in house. I mean, you don't. Darin Gantt LITERALLY works for the Panthers. And yeah, reporters write stories all the time about what is leaked and pushed to them. Narratives people want. And that's not just sports. But we see it all the time with sports. Contracts. Firings. Front offices, players, agents. Everyone uses reporters. again, if you want to believe everything as the gospel that an organization is saying after being laughed at my literally everyone for being bumbling idiots...... you can choose to do that. I don't do it for anyone else. And I'm not going to carve out a unique and lone spot for the David Tepper Panthers. Me? Matt Rhule isn't my lone scapegoat for all the bad. He gets his fair share from me. Probably more. But everyone else had their hands in it too. Tepper. Marty. Fitt. and the worst part about the current rebuild, is Tepper didn't hire a new GM. The bad part about that is it keeps the standard scapegoat cycle in play. Oh, Bryce and Frank aren't getting it done? They just need a better GM. Fitt goes under the bus. Once they hire the new GM? Well, then it's Frank/Bryce who would be next if the team isn't getting it done. Well, we got a good GM now it's the coach and his dudes. Which is why my preference is to pair them. That's the ideal play. If you are fan. Because it limits the blame game and scapegoating by the folks in house. Which is the standard NFL game by teams.

It’s foolish to believe anyone as the true teller of truths when they are in a shitshow and trying to save face. And the Rhule experiment is a top 5 comedy show in the last 2 decades of the NFL. Nothing bullshit about that. And the joke was evident to the entire league preseason of year 2. We need to fire Marty! He is just a coach/owner GM that does whatever they want!! Why did we need to fire Marty Hurney? If Rhule had total control? Hurney is the textbook GM of doing what a coach wants. Because we needed a new name that does exactly what Marty did well? I’m not the one making excuses for people. That’s you. I blame Tepper, Marty, Rhule and Fitt for the clown show we have been. You are the one trying to carve folks out of it. maybe Tepper and Fitt can redeem themselves. That would be the hope. But Matt Rhule was a joke and is used as a means to excuse everyone. You can do that. I don’t have too. reporters report what they hear. That’s not real truth either. Especially in today’s worlds. Often they are reporting what people want them to be reporting. Partial truths. but yeah, I don’t believe large organizations, billionaires , etc when they got poo on their face. That’s not a Panther carve out either. Their focus is on PR/spin rather than truth. You can though.

twitter rumblings. Everything was always a rumor. What people thought. please feel free to share Tepper or Scott saying it was true. Or the contract. again, poo hits the fan or is going bad....I don't believe anyone. Or what they leak to reporters. Everything is about saving face. And it became evident preseason of year 2 that the Panthers made a massive mistake on Rhule. He wasn't qualified or fit. That's how quick they botched it. And knew it. Everyone knew that but the optimistic to fault segment of the huddle. and again, let's pretend it was true. That makes Fitt a joke. A paper GM. And it means, Tepper has a vast interest and involvement in everything from soccer, to entertainment.....just not football. He will farm total control to random college football coach. Despite that being the core of Tepper Sports and the fact Tepper is documented to be heavily involved in everything else.

yeah, but that's the dot connection that doesn't sell. Did Rhule care about social media? And that makes sense for a college coach. But because he butted in there he somehow to what is largely pointless social media...he then dominated a billionaire and his GM on all aspects of the actual franchise until the day he was fired? I don't buy that. I blame them all. I'm not carving out a space for Tepper, Marty or Scott. Hell, people basically describe Marty when praising Scott lol and that's by anti-Marty folks. Not sure how that works.

I literally said you shouldn't believe anyone as the truth teller when poo hits the fan in a NFL franchise. Everyone telling their own version of partial truths to make them not look bad. The poo show wasn't just Matt Rhule. It was Tepper, Marty, Scott and Rhule. I blame them all.

Everyone looking to cover for themselves when poo hit the fans. Matt Rhule largely painted the narrative differently than folks around here. That he wasn't the all powerful Oz. Probably can't believe anyone when everyone is trying to save face. I still don't buy the college coach with no experience was given absolute power over everyone, at all times, until the day he was fired.

Aspects of preseason matter. It gives insight to what you got and don’t. What you can and can’t do right now

well Fitt’s career here will be dictated by Bryce Young. Same for Frank. And he can’t just be serviceable. we traded away CMC, DJ Moore, a 2024 1st pick, all the picks we got for CMC in this years draft….in exchange to move up a couple spots in the first round and to get DJ Johnson. I mean, I like Bryce Young. Thats not the debate. But that’s a lot of assets when the GM had other QBs he could have snagged in the past couple drafts at no additional cost. So we will see.

Can’t think of a team that would make sense. That has the cap space, wants to give up picks and is a RB away from being special.

He traded the 2 best offensive players on the team for picks. Which I get the why. And I’m fine holding off judgement on him and judging him post Rhule’s firing. You just can’t say he has done of lot yet. Every skill position guy added together has logged zero yards us in their career. Whatever we are building is in its infancy.

It’s all selectively picking, choosing and guessing to suit. That’s the point. Either you open up the Rhule era to judge him or you don’t. I’m fine either way. there is no mental gymnastics. You want to say Fitt had done a great job building things up….I’m simply stating not a single starter at the skill positions on O has ever logged a single yard for Carolina. And it’s an offensive league. So what did he build as he enters year 3? it’s a rebuild. We will see what happens. Fitt doesn’t have much to his name in reality.

I mean, look at "official depth chart" there is not a single starter on offense in terms of skill players that has logged an official snap for the Carolina Panthers. Hard to say our GM has done a great job building things up here given he is going into year 3. In an offensive league. Unless, you acknowledge this is a rebuild. Then it makes perfect sense for that to be the case.

again, I don't care which path you take. But if you want to give credit to Fitt for moves made in the Matt Rhule era.....then you can't make him immune to all the bad and claim Rhule was the all powerful and the real one at fault. if you want to claim you can only judge him post Matt Rhule's firing? That's cool too. But literally none of that has shown up in Carolina uniform yet on Sunday to prove anything. So, you would have to declare a timeline on when you are evaluating Fitt as a GM. Last 2 years goes into the Rhule era. And there is a lot of bad there.

Cam Newton also wasn't declared the starter until after that game. Clausen was getting reps w/ starters too. Also, in his first preseason game he lead the O on two scoring drives. I think the biggest issue is they aren't giving Young enough reps. I think it's going to lead to a slow start for him. 2 games in, Cam Newton had a lot more volume than what Bryce is getting in the preseason.