CRA

his completion % and yards per game in starts would put him in top 10 in both those categories. team win % is also the same as Bryce while sporting a higher QB rating and QBR in his starts as well. For a 2nd rounder on a bad team......it is flat out very good play. That's not LOVING Shough. It's just talking NFL football. I mean, this could be his Kyle Allen window minus the absurd fumbles and he disappears. But it's clear some can't handle Shough being talked about purely because of how it reflects on Bryce (which ruins a TON of NFL QB talk).

in starts, he has played better, been more efficient and outproduced Bryce by virtually every statistical metric that exists in 2025. And has the 2 head to heads over Carolina. I mean, your jaw should hit the floor. But not for the reason you are implying. That freaking stings. Denying these realities isn't going to help the Panthers build a better team going forward.

He is basically having a polar opposite rookie season than Bryce. 4-3 as a starter on a very bad team. 68% for 237 passing yards and 19 rush per game. 9 TDs, 6 TOs in his starts. and folks acknowledge the surprisingly play because no one thought poo of the random 2nd rounder and he is player better as a rookie thus far than so many prized picks did as a rookies (not just Bryce but a boatload of dudes). It's only a sour issue to give someone props because he is a Saint and of course the Bryce thing. It's like giving the TE in Clev props for having near identical production as the chosen one Tyler Warren. Fannin is having a great rookie season in a very bad spot.

it still gets really weird when folks want to not isolate numbers for backups that enter a games and log 0 pass yards. It distorts all of their stats if you compare them to actual starters. Shough is 4-3 as a starter on a very bad team. In this starts he is: 68% for 237 passing yards and 19 rush per game. 9 TDs. 6 TOs. That's dang good play for a 2nd round pick thrust into the role midseason on a bad team. It flat out is what it is. Shough flat out deserves some props. If folks here can't do that, it's just Saints hatred or Bryce insecurity preventing football talk. I mean, he is producing. Carrying a big load and winning. In the type scenario people use to justify excusing Bryce's entire rookie year (minus the playcaller, Shough has that) ALL THAT SAID, he is too late to the convo. It's a 2 man race. Last 2 games likely decide between the WRs.

298 yards per game, 20 points per game to 306 yards per game, 19 points per game What has been clear, is the improvement from 2024 to 2025 that isn't Bryce Young. We have wins this year because we went from historically bad defense, to NFL average defense. That's a HUGE jump. Offense remains inefficient, low ceiling.....and basically hang their hat on making 2-3 plays a game and that going our way at an unstainable rate. So many of the look at X game for improvement....is the Panthers O and Bryce not being good for the majority of the game and just catching a play or 2. We all know I want Bryce gone. But if Bryce isn't gone....you need a new OC, new skill talent and have to take all sorts of steps to fix this O if we are ever going to matter. Because we do not have good offense. Everyone should be able to at least agree the offense is not good enough and this is a really quirky season.

I always feel like the Pro Bowl to a large extent rewards so many guys for the prior season vs the current one. It's really weird. DB missing last season really hurting him. we have seen that before with DB. Dominate season. No Pro Bowl. Catches it the next year.

Yeah, and if you are rookie Ward with the Titans he is going to try to make chicken salad with chicken poo. If good games don’t exist then he goes with whatever they have (like Bryce year 1 and or even year 2). But give him options he wants a good game to review. Fans will watch it more so than the bad….and his entire purpose is eyeballs/clicks and growing his presence in that space. I get it. Ideally I think the sweet spot is sort of AZ, Rams, etc. Games that sort of have a wild ride of play to dive into but leaves the fans feeling good

I would assume it’s a pretty simplistic math formula. Fans don’t want to watch detailed videos of their QB shitting the bed. So if dudes have good games, he goes to the good. The entire point is to get people to watch.

UNC gets a new OC

No, Bryce leads a bottom 3rd offense every season…..and individual contribution is also bottom 3rd. Shough’s situation is complete trash in terms of talent around him. Folks calling the Saints more talented is the definition of how Bryce causes people to break their brains/logic defending him. and that was just an in division example as icing on the cake of much more clear cut examples of the Bryce issue. QB and OC. Thats the golden goose. That’s where we lack. Bare minimum we need to address 1 next year. Big picture, both

Yeah, I knew that’s what you are looking for. Top tier QB talent that rises all boats. Shough hasn’t proven crap but his team is crap….and 7 starts in he blowing rookie Bryce out of the water and producing more offense as a stater than year 3 Bryce does for his team. 4-3 as a starter and carrying big loads. Which is relevant to the Bryce conundrum. Bryce haters don’t actually hate Bryce. We want the Panthers fixated on building a great team. And it’s the the key O spots that get you there…..which are weak links present day

It's always something. Several of the best offenses in the NFL right now have meh skill talent around their QBs. Patriots aren't putting up crazy O because they got off an ACL Diggs and not much else. It's the QB and coaching. Josh Allen is a one man show. It's a special QB. Carolina needs a QB and an OC change. One at a bare minimum. in division, Tyler Shough isn't outproducing Bryce right now as as a starter because of skill talent. It's the playcaller and a QB that clearly fits in.

Sam is still Sam. He basically does the same thing every stop. Carolina. Minny. And now Seattle. Good starts and people think he has evolved....but Sam always comes out. He came out in Minny. Coming out now in Seattle. And people were claiming was going to be league MVP a quarter of the way through the season in Carolina.

We are 22nd in scoring %. Saying we are a ball control offense doesn't change anything. It's a low ceiling offense that doesn't produce much offense. And it's not very efficient or good w/ the opportunities it does have (22nd in scoring %) I mean, getting to 8 wins is really crazy. I mean props to Canales but that's just not a working formula going forward. When this season ends, we need our front office to really acknowledge the overachieving and sort of flukiness of this season. We got a lot of work to do still.

Just because you don’t have an abnormally healthy starting OL in a given year….doesn’t mean they are playing bad because depth gets involved We have seen lots of bad OL play in Carolina at times. This unit is not one of the bad variants we have seen run game has been top 10 most of the year. Bumped down to 11 at the moment.

Thanks. I fixed it lol

Yeah, it’s just one of those quirky season. I do sort of chalk it up to sort of that Steve Wilks respectable window. It’s not really a plan to be good. But with some help you can end up respectable.

I still think we should be rolling with Tmac, Coker and Tremayne as the base 3 WR look. Tremayne seems like the best option as the steady presence on the field. Then you keep working Horn in. Plus it’s the best big picture move as well I would have made XL inactive weeks ago. Renfrow would have been better active for last several weeks as the last body. Moore is fine as well going forward but I do worry he its Moore, Canales will just let his boy take Tremayne/Horn’s work which he shouldn’t

Carolina’s O is flirting with the top 10 in time of possession in 2025. The D isn’t living on the field preventing Bryce from production. It’s just flat out low production/ceiling offense. and that’s tough to win with that model in the big picture. even if our D was better that’s a hard formula to win with. This season is really weird/impressive season. But it’s not a good blueprint for us to think we can keep doing it as such

2025 25th ranked O 26th ranked pass attack 27th in scoring

25th ranked O 26th ranked pass attack 27th in scoring The Panthers don’t generate much offense with Bryce. It’s low ceiling offense.

Shough will finish with just 8 starts. Think he is too late to the party to be considered. I think the NFCS winner ….. has the best odds of getting there WR the award. Neck and neck right now. TMac jumped him this week but the leapfrog back can happen

I think refs sort of get caught up in momentum. Which is why you sort of see calls in waves that seem to be favoring a teams. https://x.com/sst_sports1/status/2002842018633179328?s=46&t=f55N0zsNFevD-XGJBWj1-A I don’t see where you are finding a push into the kicker. We got lucky. Just like on that TD where they ignored the hold. That’s football though. We got screwed earlier in the game. But everyone gets screwed by the refs

It went against us early and against them late. It’s just refs being refs in most cases. Every fanbase for the most part claims the refs are against them

lmao, no one protested Teddy coming here more than me. It’s one of the reasons I also have issues with Bryce Young. Low ceiling players. But Teddy gets a bump for operating in what had to be the most dysfunctional setup in Panther history. Year 1 of Rhule who wasn’t doing NFL basics + COVID. Only issue that O had was putting the ball in the endzone….and we know Rhule wasn’t even letting them practice like a functional NFL team and doing redzone. Between the 20s it was a pretty solid group. Teddy was also efficient. He was what he was. An efficient checkdown QB.