CRA

data manipulation!

of the last 6 games, how many would you say featured good NFL QB play? Jets, Green Bay, New Orleans, Falcons, 49ers, Rams. How is he playing well, if he was not good in 4 of the last 6? It's the recurring trend of letting the last game when it goes okay have drastically too much weight.

really need a thread on the Saints D. Really feels like a large % of Panthers fans dismiss the last Saints game and just some fluke and we will just win this week. There QB and D didn't just play well vs us last time, past several weeks they seem to have really gotten on a good track vs earlier this year. It will be a tough game IMO, just as tough as the Bucs games will be.

from my perspective, I call looking at quarterbacks starts when talking about him....and someone calling that manipulating the data, a wild take though. Think it's the most accurate way to view what you get out of a QB when his team and the opposing team both have game planned w/ that QB in mind and you have the full game. All these random bits of games distort the statistics IMO. What does saying Shough is playing surprisingly well mean? Literally nothing outside of our next opponent has a rookie playing surprisingly well (and it's enough we can't dismiss that after a very surprising first game vs us). and it's not a favor done just for him. I've always taken out the random games form dudes when talking about them when the sample size is small. I mean, ask PJ Walker to come in a blowout or start a game and IMO you get 2 very different things out of PJ Walker. If you are playing against him next week, it's probably best to acknowledge the variant that starts vs inserted late.

I mean, I often separated PJ Walker's starts vs his garbage time. We generally edit out 2 games from Bryce when talking about him last year. All depends what discussion you are having. but if you are having an honesty discussion on Shough and how he is playing and start talking per game production.....a 0-2, 0 yard, 4th quarter technical appearance is going to massive distort his per game production given his limited playing time. The OG goal of of this thread was a legit look at surprisingly play of our next opponent. That's supposed to be normal football talk. But most QBs indirectly make Bryce look bad and the stans can't have that.

the Bryce stans basically have been ripping off the Skip/The Golden Calf of Bristol argument. It doesn't matter if he is below average 98% of his snaps. That 2%!!!

if you are talking game production as the discussion, you basically are forced to remove them to even get in the realm of honest discussion. Shough has a 2 pass 4th quarter game and a late 3rd quarter entrance game. That will wildly distort the numbers if you are wanting to talk about what he has done in games. and the generally narrative we talk about most QBs is their starts. Because is what a QB is. The Bryce gymnastics and gaslighting and way worse than the "hate" around here.

I don't see the need to move on from RBs.... I didn't say he was a bum. I said most knowledgeable people are flat out taking the DUO of RBs that have generated a top 10 rush team over the season.....over Kamara in his worst season of his career (leading a league worst attack).....if asked which team is giving their QB better skill players in the backfield this season. It's amazing what Bryce defense will do. Got you in here essentially making wilds claim about run games/RB talent in 2025. Pooping on a top 10 rush attack that is the foundation of this team to prop up a league worst rush attack.

I'm not relying on rushing yards per game. Which is why I presented you with a host of different offensive production and efficiency stats. You said there was only one. I shared several. You just cherry picked one of the many shared out. and you are still intentionally distorting the most basic facts like wins/losses lol. the only gassing up being done here is about Bryce. Most of the thread is talking about Shough(our next opponent) in very normal terms.

So I think I have unlocked your puzzle. Bryce has better talent around him than Shough. But you feel the need to argue against me.....so you are presenting that if the stars align just right on 12/14/2025 you might get to say on one particular day Shough has better talent around him....even though that isn't an accurate reflection of anything we have witnessed on the year w/ what the Panthers and Saints have supported their QB with. I think most football savvy people would take 2025 Rico/Hubbard over the present day variant of Kamara. Only thing in Rico's way of late is Canales via bad gameplans or fixation of putting Rico in his place for criticizing his play calling in public. Kamara is 30. Worst season of his career. Worst ypc of his career. 1 rush TDs. Zero 100 yard ush games. You being extremely generous for 1 Saints RB and very harsh on a duo of Panther RBs for this arguement.

got to think Evans rushing back isn't a good thing, unless this is his last hurrah (which I guess that's been hinted at)

So...yeah, the snark and whataboutism really just works as a dodge here. So is the, but did it win us this game rhetoric or stats don't always tell the truth (because that not actually in play in this specific convo) So again, I'll lay it out one last time....are you actually willing to argue for the sake of arguing the Saints RBs in 2025 are better than ours? and their OL? Is that what you are doing here.

I think outside noise was a MASSIVE factor. Teams don't want it. And it gets really hard to have it for anyone that isn't your star player. I do think for example, if Skip Bayless didn't exist and that circus....NFL teams would have loved the utility player/locker room presence of a The Golden Calf of Bristol after he flamed out as a starting QB. Same thing. But he basically was deemed unsignable because a Taysom Hill role player can't be taking up the air waves/oxygen , press conferences and be a national spectacle every single day for a coach/staff to deal with. I mean, Saunders is literally a walking reality TV show

Here is where you are… for purely the sake of arguing with me you are willing to suggest the 2025 Saints RBs might not be better than the 2025 Panthers RBs lol Saints have the 28th ranked rush attack. We are top 10. The Saints haven’t had a 100 yard rusher the entire season. We have seen franchise best performances in a franchise known for running the rock. and see above for what our OL is also clearly better than the Saints. Hell, Canales being forced into some mashups has often made it even stronger at times

Oh, well, he has had 2 really good games vs Atlanta in his 3 year career. I have never denied those

It’s called offense. Yeah, it’s sort of what it’s all about and your bad takes and off the mark comments continue….as Cam Newton is the Carolina Panthers GOAT. Not just QB. Player. Cam Newton gets offense. Much like Josh Allen. And they can literally be one man offensive shows if need be. They are the rising tide that lifts boats. So let’s quit bringing up all these names when talking about the current QB here

Literally no one would be celebrating Stafford barely hitting 200 yards in a game vs Carolina

Not true. Josh Allen had a bad rookie season. He got MVP votes by year 3. Year 2? Well, the Bills were double digit winners and the morph into the closest thing to Cam Newton was becoming evident. As you can't just look at his passing stats like Bryce, Allen was the most productive player on the ground for the Bills as well. I mean, this is just getting insane. and Bryce has been bad in 4 of the last 6 games. Okay in 1. Good in 1. That's progress. That's the consistent nature of Bryce Young

Joe Flacco was the opening starter in Clev this season. Bryce is making his move up rankings by 2nd and 3rd string QBs from the same team coming into the math.

as I said, you aren't actually reading the posts you are replying to at this stage. Maybe read that post again, where it articulates Bryce is not LITERALLY the worst QB in the NFL today....and how he gets the title of league worst over the last 3 seasons/since being drafted.

Bryce Young haters aren't actually haters. We are just those who acknowledge reality over 3 seasons. and so much of the board is word games and selective reading before responding. Bryce Young is not literally the worst starting QB today. You got rookies, backups, 87 year olds and all sorts of types that enter into any particular season. Bryce Young is the worst starting QB over the last 3 years. Those stats and facts have been shared and are what they are. Other QBs that are as bad as Bryce, don't remain on the field and become one year blips or 2 years at most. Heck, that applies to QBs that have been better than Bryce. That's why he holds that worst starter over the last 3 years/since drafted designation.

newness of some of weaker players sometimes can work to your advantage for game. Film and knowing what makes people what matters. We didn't pay the price some thought last week vs the Rams w/ an injured defense. We often see QBs take advantage of being new. Heck, even someone like Jimmy Horn, saw his best play his first 2 active games on the roster. I do think film and time is what lets team feasts the most on backups. but Derrick Brown is Derrick Brown. So, you got to think, film and knowing why someone is on the bench might not matter when you can get that ideal matchup.

Just had his best game? The Panthers did have their best win in terms of quality of opponent. Reality is, Bryce Young was treated like a backup QB for almost the entire game vs the Rams. It's yet another example of a long run of oddities come to life for Bryce on the year. Almost this weird The Golden Calf of Bristol season weirdness where it clearly is not good QB play but randomness resulting in a random season overall. Canales frankly called 2 really dumb calls on 4th down and it worked out terrifically. I mean, credit Bryce for making the plays, sure. But I don't think 2 wild gambles really erase everything else. I mean, take out the 4th down oddities and he was at 130 yards on the day (with a lot of YAC).

imagine thinking that talking about our next opponent is "gassing up" someone.... and then lying about basic info because it's not flattering to the league's worst starting QB since he arrived. as a starter he is 2-3 (just a fact) as a starter vs Bryce this year pass yards per game - Shough rush yards per game - Shough comp % - Shough QB rating - Shough yards/per attempt - Shough and Shough is only good for a 2nd round rookie thrust into the gig on a bad team. He is getting graded on a curve of what he is. And he won the last head to head vs us, and looked like the best QB on the field that day. there are a billion red flags when it comes to Bryce Young. This is just another.

well, you will have to excuse me with not crediting wins or losses to players that factually aren't credited to them. That's not what we do. Rattler had 21 pass attempts that game....which is more pass attempts than Bryce Young had in the GB or Rams game. That wasn't a Shough game. The 2nd round rookie came in for Saints final drive of the 3rd quarter down multiple scores. so yeah, if you want to be objective about Shough this year, you evaluate him as a starter. Gameplans on both sides of the ball for him.