CRA

I got no issue looking at common opponents in starts. But you couldn’t for example use Seattle after this weekend and say Bryce did X and Shough had 0 passing yards. Seattle represents a game that skews his small sample size. Jets? Tampa? Miami? Atlanta? Rams? That’s all would be relevant in a convo about those two. Seattle wouldn’t

Someone else claimed I said EVERY. Literally in my post breaking it down it gave Bryce TDs per game. Shough however has the majority in his favor if just looking at starts. whats subjective about comp %, yards, QB ratings and turnovers? Now I guess the argument one might make off them could be subjective. But all I’m saying is statistically as a starter he has been better this year overall. I don’t think Shough is great. I think he is impressive based on the situation. 2nd rounder stepping in on a bad team. And he like so many other QBs…..serves as little red flag going off about what we are doing here offensively.

Player A - 2 starts. 200 yards in each start. He averages 200 yards a game. Player B - 1 start. Throws for 400 yards. Comes in another random game and has 1 pass attempt on a Hail Mary to end the game that goes incomplete. Now given the random game he appeared for a snap, he averages 200 yards a game. Thats why you isolate starts. If you are talking starter vs someone who began as a backup. Simple made up numbers/situations to illustrate the point.

Starts vs starts is apples to apples. starts vs letting 4th and 3rd quarter appearances skew one persons per game stats and not the other is apples and grapefruits.

No worries. I didn’t. I don’t know what is hard to comprehend. You can just look at his starts vs literally any other QBs starts and see their production as a starter…. vs letting random late game appearances by QBs skew numbers QB rating is 91.6 in his 7 starts. No math is required on your part. Or mine. but I think what happened….is you are admitting you don’t have or know the numbers yet are arguing against them.

as a starter, Shough is better this year in all the aspects I shared with you. Facts. You disputed nothing I said because I’m talking starts and my numbers are right

every post you make, you start moving the goal posts. I talk about games as a starter. You just rant about season totals. I show where he is better as a starter....you demand where it shows he is better at EVERY category lol.

True. I think the Saints have done one thing for sure, they look to of hit on the coach. You see smart coaching in game. You see smart management of scenarios.

Bryce Young should only be talked about in a vacuum and compared against himself. if you talk QB play elsewhere or just offensive production elsewhere? You aren't a Panther fan because the Panthers won't be reflected well.

It's only made up in your mind because you choose not to read words. As starters in 2025. Comp % - Shough Pass yards per game - Shough Rush yards per game - Shough QB rating - Shough Yards per attempt - Shough TDs per game - Young Turnovers per game - Young Bryce is a #1 overall pick, year 3 starter. Shough is a 2nd round rookie nobody on a worse team. That my friend, is a red flag of a team doing it wrong. That team is us. and we shouldn't be talking Shough in terms of making BY look bad. We should be talking about the Carolina kid Drake "Drake Maye" Maye making us look really bad.

You don't seem to be a Panther fan. You seem to be a fan of a player. Me? I don't want bottom-tier offense for my team. Which is the entirety of the Bryce era. Both from a team and individual aspect. Being a Panther fan isn't about pretending Bryce is better than he is.

yeah, I think Egbuka was the slight betting fav going into last Sun. Tmac now jumped him. Tight enough Egbuka could jump back this weekend (Phins vs Hawks is a good setup for him to). So, I think the OROY is simply the result of the Panther/Bucs final. Pending one doesn't go ham in a losing effort I think the playoff team gets the OROY.

I mean, I largely spoke about Shough initially going into the week we played the Saints (and was right about why we needed to talk about him)......and now in a thread about OROY. Seems about right to me. You want to talk about Sam Darnold? I can do that because it would make sense to right about now as well.

well, last week he had 6 pass attempts over 20+ yards. Fair to say, he was consistently trying to keep the Jets honest in a game that was literally all on his shoulders from the jump given they are out of RBs in NO. the Saints managed a win despite putting Shough in the exact scenario you essentially guarantee to lose in w/ young QBs. Going all QB essentially w/ the gameplan. I do not think the film has had time to catch Shough yet. It will. Then you have to see if he can respond to that. But yeah, he is a pretty cool little story if you are largely a NFL fan/talker. I mean, if we had prime Cam Newton and no worries at QB.....I think the reaction to talking QB play in the NFCS right now might be a little different. Don't think people would freak out because the Saints hit a little streak and we compliment the dude from out of nowhere (and the out of nowhere part is basically why it's talked about)

I give zero shits about Tyler Shough. I do think it is relevant to see where in our own division a random 2nd rounder on a worse team.....is presently outplaying our #1 overall pick in his 3rd season. And of course, if you are talking about rookie play....yeah, Shough deserves some props. Which is why I also keep bringing up Fannin Jr. They deserve some mentions given they have virtually a zero % chance to win because they came out of nowhere vs favorites/media darlings at their spots and are late to the party. and outside of what you are trying to do here....I think most know my Shough posting is really Bryce Young posting. It's getting to the Bryce issue via another channel.

agreed. Lack of games/opportunity makes him a non-factor in OROTY talk. He is just now getting the stage where there is legit film on him. Takes awhile to really see how guys react to all the different scenarios and to find the real weak spots on a QB's play in an O.

his completion % and yards per game in starts would put him in top 10 in both those categories. team win % is also the same as Bryce while sporting a higher QB rating and QBR in his starts as well. For a 2nd rounder on a bad team......it is flat out very good play. That's not LOVING Shough. It's just talking NFL football. I mean, this could be his Kyle Allen window minus the absurd fumbles and he disappears. But it's clear some can't handle Shough being talked about purely because of how it reflects on Bryce (which ruins a TON of NFL QB talk).

in starts, he has played better, been more efficient and outproduced Bryce by virtually every statistical metric that exists in 2025. And has the 2 head to heads over Carolina. I mean, your jaw should hit the floor. But not for the reason you are implying. That freaking stings. Denying these realities isn't going to help the Panthers build a better team going forward.

He is basically having a polar opposite rookie season than Bryce. 4-3 as a starter on a very bad team. 68% for 237 passing yards and 19 rush per game. 9 TDs, 6 TOs in his starts. and folks acknowledge the surprisingly play because no one thought poo of the random 2nd rounder and he is player better as a rookie thus far than so many prized picks did as a rookies (not just Bryce but a boatload of dudes). It's only a sour issue to give someone props because he is a Saint and of course the Bryce thing. It's like giving the TE in Clev props for having near identical production as the chosen one Tyler Warren. Fannin is having a great rookie season in a very bad spot.

it still gets really weird when folks want to not isolate numbers for backups that enter a games and log 0 pass yards. It distorts all of their stats if you compare them to actual starters. Shough is 4-3 as a starter on a very bad team. In this starts he is: 68% for 237 passing yards and 19 rush per game. 9 TDs. 6 TOs. That's dang good play for a 2nd round pick thrust into the role midseason on a bad team. It flat out is what it is. Shough flat out deserves some props. If folks here can't do that, it's just Saints hatred or Bryce insecurity preventing football talk. I mean, he is producing. Carrying a big load and winning. In the type scenario people use to justify excusing Bryce's entire rookie year (minus the playcaller, Shough has that) ALL THAT SAID, he is too late to the convo. It's a 2 man race. Last 2 games likely decide between the WRs.

298 yards per game, 20 points per game to 306 yards per game, 19 points per game What has been clear, is the improvement from 2024 to 2025 that isn't Bryce Young. We have wins this year because we went from historically bad defense, to NFL average defense. That's a HUGE jump. Offense remains inefficient, low ceiling.....and basically hang their hat on making 2-3 plays a game and that going our way at an unstainable rate. So many of the look at X game for improvement....is the Panthers O and Bryce not being good for the majority of the game and just catching a play or 2. We all know I want Bryce gone. But if Bryce isn't gone....you need a new OC, new skill talent and have to take all sorts of steps to fix this O if we are ever going to matter. Because we do not have good offense. Everyone should be able to at least agree the offense is not good enough and this is a really quirky season.

I always feel like the Pro Bowl to a large extent rewards so many guys for the prior season vs the current one. It's really weird. DB missing last season really hurting him. we have seen that before with DB. Dominate season. No Pro Bowl. Catches it the next year.

Yeah, and if you are rookie Ward with the Titans he is going to try to make chicken salad with chicken poo. If good games don’t exist then he goes with whatever they have (like Bryce year 1 and or even year 2). But give him options he wants a good game to review. Fans will watch it more so than the bad….and his entire purpose is eyeballs/clicks and growing his presence in that space. I get it. Ideally I think the sweet spot is sort of AZ, Rams, etc. Games that sort of have a wild ride of play to dive into but leaves the fans feeling good

I would assume it’s a pretty simplistic math formula. Fans don’t want to watch detailed videos of their QB shitting the bed. So if dudes have good games, he goes to the good. The entire point is to get people to watch.

UNC gets a new OC