OnlyPantherFaninMaine

Don't forget Charles Clay either who is a better than average TE and just got a massive contract to back it up.

@Gil_Brandt: I don't worry too much about WRs w/ drops in college. Not too much. Coach Landry believed you could teach player to catch. I agree.

Not to mention how many times he would have been all alone for several easy touchdowns if his QB had the arm to get it to him. Dude simply outran his quarterbacks arm. That doesn't happen with Cam. Cams arm and this dudes legs are a match made in heaven.

I personally hope our depth chart looks like this week 1: Kelvin Perriman or Strong Jennings Ginn Brown That is actually a group teams would have to game plan for and it would open up the running game and help out our 25 year old signal caller immensely.

WR depth chart right now? Amongst the worst in the league: Kelvin Cotchery Ginn Brown Bersin Hill/Whoever Else Things would be looking way up if we brought in Jennings and selected another receiver in the first or second round. Let's hope for this offenses sake that it happens.

25: R1P25 OT JAKE FISHER OREGON 57: R2P25 WR NELSON AGHOLOR USC 89: R3P25 CB RONALD DARBY FLORIDA STATE 124: R4P25 RB TEVIN COLEMAN INDIANA 161: R5P25 S JAMES SAMPLE LOUISVILLE 169: R5P33 WR CHRIS CONLEY GEORGIA 200: R6P25 DT MARTIN IFEDI MEMPHIS 213: R6P38 CB DESHAZOR EVERETT TEXAS A&M 242: R7P25 TE WES SAXTON SOUTH ALABAMA

Don't get me wrong...I love what Dave has done on the defensive side of the ball, but they can get the job done with the personnel they already have assuming some young guys in the secondary develop and Kony does as well. I hope we take a safety in the mid-rounds again and another young outside backer, but I'm going to have a very hard time supporting another draft of defensive players in the first or second rounds.

You have to remove the homer glasses just a little bit. Olsen is the best asset this offense has outside of Cam. He's probably about the only guy other fan bases would be salivating over if he was made available in a trade and would be seen as an immediate upgrade at the TE position for every team outside of New England and Seattle. Tolbert is not who he was when he first got here and every team in the league has their version of Fozzy. Stewart is good, when healthy, but that is rare and no other team in the league would pay that salary he is getting. He's not AP. He's not Jamal. He's not DeMarco or Shady until I actually seem him be a workhorse for 16 games and have production on their levels. I wouldn't exactly call Kelvin a true #1 yet. He's certainly our #1 right now but he is inconsistent, still pretty raw, and his drops are a real concern. I think he will develop into a top 10 receiver but he is not that right now. Cotchery? Really? He's our number two? He wouldn't be a number two on any other team in the league. Offensive line finished strong but they are still amongst the league's worst as a unit. We desperately need Norwell and Turner to continue to improve if we want at least the interior to be secure. I'm not sold on Remmers as a long-term solution at RT and Oher isn't the long-term answer at LT. Thankfully there is a draft coming up and free-agency is not over...but right now boasting the likes of Tolbert, Fozzy, Cotchery isn't doing you any favors. Draft a receiver or tackle in the first, a tackle or receiver in the second, have some young guys develop and we are on the right track.

Who does Brady have? A solid and talented offensive line, the best TE in the game, a match-up nightmare in Edelman and a reliable target in LaFell coupled with a bruiser to pick up tough yards in Blount and they had Vereen who killed teams out of the backfield. Brady is an all-time great and can win the big game without a great supporting cast although his is still pretty dang good. Luck has T.Y...two decent TE's that were drafted to grow and develop with him in Fleener and Allen. The two aren't on Olsen's level but they are effective in the red zone. Wayne slowed way down but was still a good player Luck's first couple years in the league when he was healthy. He's got a better line although not great and Moncrief was drafted early and displayed some of his talents last year. Seattle has the most dominant running game in the league. Their supporting cast is weak around Wilson but when you have a legendary defense, a dominant ground attack, they don't need a whole lot else to win a Super Bowl (proven). Their receivers always seem to burn us. Falcons are pretty void of talent, I will give you that. I'd trade anyone on our offense outside of Cam for Julio. Roddy is still pretty good and Harry Douglas was better than anything we had at the position outside of Kelvin. They brought in a talented LT in Matthews to groom. He will get better and I suspect takes a big step forward this next season. Of course there are QBs out there with average talent, but I'd be lying if I told you I was satisfied with what they have put around Cam since being here. Sure, the defense turned around and that is a huge asset to have... but we have wrote the book on "How Not to Develop a Young Franchise QB in the NFL." I really hope that changes this off-season. I've never seen a team put less around a young quarterback on the offensive side of the ball.

I'll ask you this... QBs aside, what offensive group would you not trade ours for? Take into account offensive lines as unit, WRs as a unit, the TE position, and the backfield as a group. Realistically, I'd take us over what the Titans have to offer right now. Maybe the Bears. The Browns. The Chiefs. The Raiders. Safe to say we are not in good company right now. Maybe the Jets?

My man, where the heck did I bring up passing at all? I was making the case for Dalton's running game being superior to Cam's since they both entered the league. If we eliminate 2014 (which I find silly in the first place) Dalton's backs out-rushed Cam's 4,823 to 4,490. Cam's backs scored three more times in that three year span. So there was a difference, although not by a whole lot. But to ignore 2014 because of injuries just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm sure the Bengals took some hits to their RB corps from 2011-2014 that I don't care to look up. As I said, part of the game.

WOW!! was advising we actually build around our franchise QB. When the Bengals have built around Dalton, they have the production (in both TDs and yards on the ground) to show for it. Dalton has some elite pieces around him and he's still pretty average. Cam has been a bit better than average with sub-par pieces around him. It's time we build around him and help him to elevate his game. /I am done.

And yet, this whole debate was started over who had/has had the better supporting cast since entering the league. Why are we ignoring 2014, because it fits your argument? We can't just pretend 2014 never happened. Heck, Gio Bernard was injured last year too. I've shown you with "stats", that you brought up in the first place, that Dalton's running game has been superior in both yards and in touchdowns since 2011. Where are your stats?

Cam's backs touchdown production steadily declining with age: 2011 - 12 Total 2012 - 13 Total 2013 - 8 Total 2014 - 4 Total Dalton's backs touchdown production increasing by drafting talent at the RB position around him: 2011 - 9 Total 2012 - 7 Total 2013 - 14 Total 2014 - 15 Total Obviously quite a bit of that has to do with the superior offensive line in Cincinnati and some differences in play calling in the red zone...but damn I'd say Dalton has a better supporting cast at the RB position. Would have been foolish to draft younger backs prior to this year due to the stable we already had and their cost, but it's pretty telling the impact a couple young second-round workhorses can have on an offense.

Almost forgot.. outside of out-gaining Panther RBs by nearly 1,000 yards on the ground since 2011, Dalton's backs have also accounted for 45 total touchdowns while Cam's have accounted for 37 on the ground. Not a massive difference, but more production nonetheless. If you going to bang the stats drum to support your claims at least make sure they actually back up what you're attempting to argue rather than work against you. It's also worth noting that Cam's RB production in terms of touchdowns has been steadily declining since 2011 while Dalton's have steadily improved since 2011. Probably a direct correlation between drafting good young backs and riding old expensive backs into the ground.

Why does it matter who is running the ball be it receivers or backs? We are talking about the rushing game here. I'm willing to bet receiver designed runs are pretty minimal for both teams. I don't have all day to go look at every run and throw out runs by receivers over four season of football. I added up rushing totals from 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014 and subtracted the career rushing totals for both Dalton and Cam and the Bengals out-rushed Carolina by nearly 1,000 yards in that time. I don't have the time to pick through those stats and determine the differences in YPC and attempts without Dalton and Cam's averages included and their numbers skewing the results.

Injuries are apart of the game. Every team deals with them. The Bengals have a better rushing attack and a superior offensive line. The stats, since you are so fond of them, back that claim up as well.

Actually, I did take the time to look up the rushing stats for each team from 2011 onwards. Subtracting Cam's rushing totals, the Panthers have amassed 5,987 yards on the ground. Subtracting Dalton's rushing totals, the Bengals have amassed 6,801 yards on the ground. So yeah, Dalton's running game has been superior in yards and in touchdowns. Better backs behind a better offensive line, and that's what you get. Next.

I have no problem looking with my own two eyes and seeing that the Bengals have a superior running game. I'm not about to take the time to subtract Cam and Dalton's rushing stats from the team totals since 2011 and see who had a better running game. As for last year...the Bengals had 15 rushing touchdowns from their backs outside of Dalton on the ground. Subtract Cam's rushing TDs...Carolina backs accounted for 4. Four touchdowns for all running backs in an entire season. That is a problem.

All I want is for this team to legitimately make a real effort to build around our franchise QB. Can you think of a team that has put less around their young QB lately? This defense as is can be amongst the leagues best. We are severely lacking talent on the offensive side of the ball outside of KB, Olsen, and Cam. Stew is great when he is healthy and that hasn't been the norm. Sign Jennings, draft a big time talent at WR in the first and a couple tackles to develop and I'm one happy camper. If we come out loading up on the defensive side of the ball in the draft don't be surprised when our offense is poor and Cam takes a beating once again. There's no excuse for that. This entire off-season should be dedicated to putting our young franchise QB in a position to succeed.

Can't overlook that Dalton has one of the best offensive lines in the league and two great young backs. He doesn't have to shoulder the running and passing game like Cam does. He's got two bookend tackles, an elite WR, two dominant young backs, one of the leagues best OCs, and good guards to boot. The only position we are better at on offense than the Bengals is QB and TE. Kalil is damn good but their line is pretty stacked across the board. They've drafted and made an effort to put real talent around Dalton at all levels. Green, Sanu, Eifert (high 1st round pick) and two second round backs that will make up the best 1/2 punch in the game next season. Jeremy Hill may already be better than Gio Bernard. Put Cam in that offense and he has lead that team to numerous playoff wins and probably an AFC Championship game as well.

Where are you getting your info that Perriman possesses "very little football smarts"?

People knocking Perriman and exclaiming we won't draft him probably said the same thing about Kelvin last year. Similar knocks on their game and rawness at the position, but Breshad is the better athlete. Improved his play every season even after losing Bortles to the draft a season prior to his final year in college. Him being a hands-catcher leads me to believe he can improve there and he is fluid in his movements. Tidy up that route running and he's got about as much upside as any guy in the draft.

Interesting is a good word for that duo. Frustrating as hell with the drops but limitless potential. Two big bodies and a mismatch for any defense. Throw in Olsen and Cam would finally have a formidable cast of pass-catchers.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000451775/article/panthers-not-fretting-kelvin-benjamins-drops According to this article Benjamin actually dropped a higher % of balls this past season as a pro. Pro vs. College obviously different but it warrants being said. Carolina showed they won't shy away from drafting boom/bust guys; especially at the WR position.